Shocked To Find Out Yahweh Was Originally A Canaanite God Who Had A Wife, Asherah

[Kenny]

Who came first, the Canaanites or the Hebrews? Scholarship I read says the Hebrews were a part of the Canaanites.

Jonathan Tubbs, a British archeologist, argues that the Israelites were themselves Canaanites, and that "historical Israel", as distinct from "literary" or "Biblical Israel" was a subset of Canaanite culture. Canaan when used in this sense refers to the entire Ancient Near Eastern Levant down to about 100 AD, including the kingdoms of Israel and Judah. Mark Smith adds, "Israelite culture was largely Canaanite in nature." [Wiki, s.v. "Canaan"]

Hebrews Were Canaanites – The Gold Scales

The Hebrews started with Abraham... but what does that have to do with what I said?

 

[1213]

...I'm curious to hear what Christians here think about their god originally being a pagan god and having a wife who, if we are to believe the strong scholarship supporting this, was the one who gave birth to Jesus. So Jesus wasn't begotten, he was a product of celestial sex.

I think there is no real support for the claim that Yahweh had a wife and certainly it Is not Biblical idea. If it would be true, I don’t see any reason why it would not be in the Bible. People would not have had any reason to remove that information, if it would be true, which is why I don’t think it is true.

But, the idea of El being the one and only true God and Yahweh his son could maybe be Biblical. And I think it would then mean that Jesus is actually Yahweh. But I don’t know enough support from Bible for that. But, certainly there is one true God and several sons of God, who were also called gods, according to the Bible.

I said, "You are gods, All of you are sons of the Most High. Nevertheless you shall die like men, And fall like one of the rulers."
Psalms 82:6-7

 

[SeekingAllTruth]

I think there is no real support for the claim that Yahweh had a wife and certainly it Is not Biblical idea. If it would be true, I don’t see any reason why it would not be in the Bible. People would not have had any reason to remove that information, if it would be true, which is why I don’t think it is true.

But, the idea of El being the one and only true God and Yahweh his son could maybe be Biblical. And I think it would then mean that Jesus is actually Yahweh. But I don’t know enough support from Bible for that. But, certainly there is one true God and several sons of God, who were also called gods, according to the Bible.

I said, "You are gods, All of you are sons of the Most High. Nevertheless you shall die like men, And fall like one of the rulers."
Psalms 82:6-7

But the Bible says, "The ONLY begotten son of god so how can god have several sons despite Job saying "When the SONS OF GOD came to stand...."

Contradiction?

The Bible says what its writers wanted people to believe about its culture and history in the Old Testament. In the New Testament it says what the churchmen wanted pagans and converts to believe about Jesus. The Bible is not a history text although it does contain a little history. Much of what's in there is fabricated to align with beliefs.

If secular Biblical scholars find a 5000 year old figurine of Asherah in a Canaanite archeological and tablets with Yahweh inscribed on them it doesn't matter what the Bible says. This is archeological evidence says Yahweh was a Canaanite god. The Bible as a source of evidence is irrelevant.

The earliest Hebrews dwelt among the Canaanites and adopted their gods, among them Yahweh. Yahweh was a lesser god in the Canaanite pantheon of gods, but the Jews gradually adopted him as their chief god during the exile in Babylonia. That's what the archeological evidence supports.

 

[SeekingAllTruth]

Baha'is believe that Adam was the first Prophet in the Adamic Cycle of religion which ended with Muhammad, who was the Seal of the Prophets, but we do not believe that Adam and Eve and the Garden of Eden existed as real places or real people, we believe they are fictional characters in a metaphorical story.

Baha'is do not believe that Adam was the first man, because humans have existed for about 200,000 years; although the first humans were not the same as the humans of today, they were still humans.

You have to try to convince the fundamentalists of this. They believe man was only on earth for 6000 years starting with Adam and all those dinosaur bones and hominid skeletons were planted there by satan to deceive the Christians into not believing the Bible is true.

 

[Batya]

You have to try to convince the fundamentalists of this. They believe man was only on earth for 6000 years starting with Adam and all those dinosaur bones and hominid skeletons were planted there by satan to deceive the Christians into not believing the Bible is true.

I don't believe they were put there by satan, and I've never heard anyone say that was the case.

 

[SeekingAllTruth]

I believe that God has spoken through Messengers ever since man has existed as man. The fact that there are no records of any Messengers that preceded Adam is no proof that they did not exist.

“And now regarding thy question, “How is it that no records are to be found concerning the Prophets that have preceded Adam, the Father of Mankind, or of the kings that lived in the days of those Prophets?” Know thou that the absence of any reference to them is no proof that they did not actually exist. That no records concerning them are now available, should be attributed to their extreme remoteness, as well as to the vast changes which the earth hath undergone since their time.

Moreover such forms and modes of writing as are now current amongst men were unknown to the generations that were before Adam. There was even a time when men were wholly ignorant of the art of writing, and had adopted a system entirely different from the one which they now use. For a proper exposition of this an elaborate explanation would be required.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 172-173

Sumerian cuneiform tablets that have been dated to 3400 BC? Certainly written way before the Bible from 600 BC.

 

[Nivek001]

Never in my wildest imagination when I was a Christian would I have believed that Jesus' Father, Yahweh actually originated in the Canaanite lands in pre-Israel times. That would make Yahweh a pagan god which the ancient Hebrews apparently adopted as their god. More shocking, Yahweh had a wife/consort named Asherah which would make Asherah Jesus' mom.

"Initially [Yahweh] seems to have been Canaanite in origin and subordinate to the supreme god El. Canaanite inscriptions mention a lesser god Yahweh and even the biblical Book of Deuteronomy stipulates that “the Most High, El, gave to the nations their inheritance” and that “Yahweh's portion is his people, Jacob and his allotted heritage” (32:8-9). A passage like this reflects the early beliefs of the Canaanites and Israelites in polytheism or, more accurately, henotheism (the belief in many gods with a focus on a single supreme deity). The claim that Israel always only acknowledged one god is a later belief."

Yahweh <<<<link

So it turns out the early Hebrews were part of the Canaanite culture, although Genesis claims Abraham their patriarch came from the Sumerian city of Ur. And when they broke away from the Canaanites they adopted Yahweh as their chief war god although Yahweh originally was a lesser god from a pantheon of Canaanite gods including their chief god, El and Baal, Asherah and Astarte.

Moreover, Yahweh had a wife. She was worshiped alongside Yahweh. The Old Testament mentions her several times. It wasn't until the Babylonian captivity that Yahweh basically "divorced" her in the sense that the Jews became monotheistic at that point.

"God had a wife, Asherah, whom the Book of Kings suggests was worshipped alongside Yahweh in his temple in Israel, according to an Oxford scholar. She bases her theory on ancient texts, amulets and figurines unearthed primarily in the ancient Canaanite coastal city called Ugarit, now modern-day Syria. All of these artifacts reveal that Asherah was a powerful fertility goddess."

Did God have a wife? Scholar says that he did <<<<link

Did God Have a Wife? - Wikipedia <<<<link

I'm curious to hear what Christians here think about their god originally being a pagan god and having a wife who, if we are to believe the strong scholarship supporting this, was the one who gave birth to Jesus. So Jesus wasn't begotten, he was a product of celestial sex.

There are many variables that can come into play here. Especially since history and archeology are continuous works in progress.

Our understanding of ancient cultures are never complete. There will certainly be cultural material that will either be completely destroyed, damaged greatly, or will simply remain missing for which we may never discover.

It seems rather pretentious to jump to a massive conclusion on the history when even among scholars there is disagreement. The article link this the opening post is based on goes over the point that Yahuweh belief being had among the Canaanites originated with them is controversial among scholars.

To Christians and Jews Yahuweh belief and El belief was not had only among Hebrews but also among the ancestors of the Hebrews. It’s even believed among Christians and Jews that all religious beliefs derive from belief in the God who created this particular Earth. That would be considered by Christians and Jews Yahuweh and El or Elohim. Therefore, it could very well be that Canaanite Yahuweh belief and Hebrew Yahuweh belief may have been derivative beliefs from the root belief that was once practiced by earlier humanity, much like Catholics and Protestants. Two different types of faith stemming from the ancestral belief in Jesus Christ being Yahuweh made mortal who paid the price for our mistakes that make us imperfect and overcoming physical death so that we can one day overcome physical death as well.


This STILL all boils down to being a matter of belief in what is perceived to be the truth not conclusive and complete fact the world can see.

 

[SeekingAllTruth]

I don't believe they were put there by satan, and I've never heard anyone say that was the case.

You never heard that???
Here:

"Some believe that God created all these fossil bones of animals that never really lived in order to test our faith in God. Some believe that scientists are putting these fossil bones together wrong and create monster dinosaurs that never really existed. Others say that Satan created these fossils in order to deceive us."

You should read the link below. It's got some great stuff in it.

The Bible and Science:
How Old is the Earth?

IBSS - The Bible and Science - How Old is the Earth

 

[dybmh]

There is nothing recorded among the earliest cave drawings depicting Yahweh. There is NOTHING pertaining to Yahweh until he emerges among the Canaanites.

Yes, but according to the story, images of Yahweh are prohibited...

 

[SeekingAllTruth]

Yes, but according to the story, images of Yahweh are prohibited...

Certainly not among the early cavemen--unless Yahweh appeared to them and said, "Don't make any cave wall drawings of me. Remember what I told you in the 2nd Commandment. Oh, wait a second. I'm getting you confused with Moses who gives his people that commandment 50,000 years from now. Sorry about that, guys. Carry on."

 

[dybmh]

Certainly not among the early cavemen--unless Yahweh appeared to them and said, "Don't make any cave wall drawings of me. Remember what I told you in the 2nd Commandment. Oh, wait a second. I'm getting you confused with Moses who gives his people that commandment 50,000 years from now. Sorry about that, guys. Carry on."

If the early cavemen believed in an infinite creator God who prohibited idols and images then there won't be archeological evidence of these beliefs until written language is developed.

 

[SeekingAllTruth]

If the early cavemen believed in an infinite creator God who prohibited idols and images then there won't be archeological evidence of these beliefs until written language is developed.

The earliest men didn't believe in one supreme creator of the universe. They didn't even know what a universe was. They saw the sun, the moon, hurricanes, tornadoes etc and so they created god to pray to based on the natural forces around them. Obviously Yahweh wasn't part of their pantheon of gods.

 

[74x12]

Initially, he seems to have been....means that in this article the scholars are going to assume he was Canaanite. When something arises that disproves this they will change their opinion. Other scholars are more direct. Yahweh was a Canaanite god.

Of course Yah was known by the Canaanites. If we assume the Bible is true then we would assume they would know of Yah and even have different opinions about him than the Israelites. But your emphatic instance that he was a indeed Canaanite god first is pointless. Because it is theorized among the same secular scholars that the Israelites themselves were also Canaanites themselves even though that's debated with some saying they're amorites, the point is they supposedly lived in the land of Canaan and never came out of Egypt. So what is your point exactly? If the Israelites were just Canaanites or Amorites as these scholars assume then who worshiped Yah first? Them or the other Canaanites? I mean this is getting ridiculous and my point is that you cannot possibly know the answers to these questions from archeology alone. Even if you found a stone with it written on the stone "Yah is a Canaanite god and the Israelites copied him from Canaanites" that still wouldn't be proof. You know why? Because it's just what someone wrote a long time ago. It's an opinion.

You would need a time machine to figure out the actual truth and so you haven't proved anything and neither have your scholars.

Archeology is not an exact science as some people here are claiming. It's more of an investigation than anything else. You're digging up random stuff from thousands of years ago and trying to figure out what people lived like back then from fragments of trash and other rubble. So these "scholars" can theorize all day but it's not a fact. In fact it's debated.

According to Amzallag, long before becoming the deity of the Israelites, Yahweh was a god of metallurgy in the ancient Canaanite pantheon, worshipped by smelters and metalworkers throughout the Levant, not just by the Hebrews. His theory is not exactly widely accepted, but has recently been gaining traction.

Jewish god Yahweh originated in Canaanite Vulcan, says new theory

Another theory? Great. It's just another theory like the rest of them. A dime a dozen like I said. Let's see the actual proof of this theory because "gaining traction" isn't going to cut it for a "fact".

 

[SeekingAllTruth]

The Hebrews started with Abraham... but what does that have to do with what I said?

What did you say. I can't find your original post.

 

[Kenny]

What did you say. I can't find your original post.

No problem...

#19

 

[SeekingAllTruth]

Of course Yah was known by the Canaanites. If we assume the Bible is true then we would assume they would know of Yah and even have different opinions about him than the Israelites. But your emphatic instance that he was a indeed Canaanite god first is pointless. Because it is theorized among the same secular scholars that the Israelites themselves were also Canaanites themselves even though that's debated with some saying they're amorites, the point is they supposedly lived in the land of Canaan and never came out of Egypt. So what is your point exactly? If the Israelites were just Canaanites or Amorites as these scholars assume then who worshiped Yah first? Them or the other Canaanites? I mean this is getting ridiculous and my point is that you cannot possibly know the answers to these questions from archeology alone. Even if you found a stone with it written on the stone "Yah is a Canaanite god and the Israelites copied him from Canaanites" that still wouldn't be proof. You know why? Because it's just what someone wrote a long time ago. It's an opinion.

You would need a time machine to figure out the actual truth and so you haven't proved anything and neither have your scholars.

Archeology is not an exact science as some people here are claiming. It's more of an investigation than anything else. You're digging up random stuff from thousands of years ago and trying to figure out what people lived like back then from fragments of trash and other rubble. So these "scholars" can theorize all day but it's not a fact. In fact it's debated.

Another theory? Great. It's just another theory like the rest of them. A dime a dozen like I said. Let's see the actual proof of this theory because "gaining traction" isn't going to cut it for a "fact".

Look, I get that you're a Christian and that your whole point is to defend Jesus, but you don't want to come out and say so. So you're concocting this smoke screen "What does it matter if Yahweh was known to the Canaanites. It's just theory...." spiel to hide your true motives of trying to defend Jesus.

I get all that.

My point is that if Yahweh originally was a Canaanite pagan god--and current scholarship says he was based on evidence they have unearthed, then the Jews adapted this pagan god to be their god. And this god, Yahweh was the god that the Jews were worshiping when Jesus came along. Jesus called Yahweh his father when he prayed "Father, do this..." Jesus was actually praying to and calling a pagan god his father. Or are you hinting Yahweh wore two hats--he was a pagan god to the Canaanites but the One True "I AM" to the Jews? I mean how cockeyed is that??????

The end result is that Jesus was either a normal man who was crucified and died, period end of story for Jesus; or Jesus was begotten of a pagan god, Yahweh and Ashera and then they chose mary to be the surrogate, but you've got to choose one or the other. Pick your poison.

 

[dybmh]

The earliest men didn't believe in one supreme creator of the universe. They didn't even know what a universe was. They saw the sun, the moon, hurricanes, tornadoes etc and so they created god to pray to based on the natural forces around them. Obviously Yahweh wasn't part of their pantheon of gods.

Therefore, it wasn't copied from earliest men.

 

[SeekingAllTruth]

Therefore, it wasn't copied from earliest men.

I don't getcha, sorry.

 

[dybmh]

I don't getcha, sorry.

Obviously Yahweh wasn't part of their pantheon of gods.

If Yahweh was not included in the pantheon, then Yahweh was not copied from there.

The earliest men didn't believe in one supreme creator of the universe. They didn't even know what a universe was. They saw the sun, the moon, hurricanes, tornadoes etc and so they created god to pray to based on the natural forces around them.

Even without knowledge of the universe, they could have a concept of infinty, everything and more.

The point is that belief in Yahweh might have been copied from a pagan pantheon. But when it ****ed to belief in an infinite creator, it stopped being pagan and the belief in a pantheon dissolved.

 

[SeekingAllTruth]

It is in your interpretation (the proverbial "what came first, the hen or the egg")

Let's look at this differently....

In the beginning YHWH created the heavens and the earth and placed the man we know today in the Garden and say "rule under my rulership" - "have dominion".

Man said, "I believe there is a better way" and separated himself from God's rulership and then created his own image of God... as did the Canaanites. So the Canaanites perverted the image of God into Dagon, Baal et al.

God came to Abraham and said (Paraphrased) - let me get my Kingdom and who I AM back into operation.

Thus:

1 sam 5: "After the Philistines had captured the ark of God, they took it from Ebenezer to Ashdod.
2 Then they carried the ark into Dagon’s temple and set it beside Dagon.
3 When the people of Ashdod rose early the next day, there was Dagon, fallen on his face on the ground before the ark of the LORD!"

and

1 Kings 18:21 Elijah went before the people and said, “How long will you waver between two opinions? If the LORD is God, follow him; but if Baal is God, follow him.” But the people said nothing. ...

...36 At the time of sacrifice, the prophet Elijah stepped forward and prayed: “LORD, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Israel, let it be known today that you are God in Israel and that I am your servant and have done all these things at your command.
37 Answer me, LORD, answer me, so these people will know that you, LORD, are God, and that you are turning their hearts back again.”
38 Then the fire of the LORD fell and burned up the sacrifice, the wood, the stones and the soil, and also licked up the water in the trench.
39When all the people saw this, they fell prostrate and cried, “The LORD—he is God! The LORD—he is God!”

So the problem in your presentation is which came first... YHWH came first and then the gods of the Canaanites.

Thanks, that helped a lot. I disagree. We cannot say "First Yahweh created the heavens and earth..." etc That's from the Bible and the Bible is just a faith-based document. In the real world we don't know how the universe got here. Scientists have a whole bunch of theories. That's another discussion. So I'm going to disregard everything you wrote out of the Bible because Biblical scholars don't use the Bible to prove their hypotheses. So jump to your last statement: So the problem in your presentation is which came first... YHWH came first and then the gods of the Canaanites.

What came first were the earliest gods of primitive man, sun, wind, thunder, fire, etc. As man evolved into societies the first great civilization we know of is the Sumerian empire. Who were their gods?

The major deities in the Sumerian pantheon included An, the god of the heavens, Enlil, the god of wind and storm, Enki, the god of water and human culture, Ninhursag, the goddess of fertility and the earth, Utu, the god of the sun and justice, and his father Nanna, the god of the moon.

From there we get a million different gods based on cultures around the world. But we're concentrating on the Middle east Levant where Yahweh popped up among the Canaanites and then migrated to the Jews because the Jews lived and intermarried with the Canaanites before being carried off into Babylon in 600 BC. That's where they developed monotheism, adopted Yahweh as their one and only "I AM" and then wrote down the Old Testament. So Yahweh didn't create the universe. We don't know what did. But archeological evidence says the Canaanites created Yahweh.