Do we really KNOW *gravity*?

[ChristineM]

the movment is real
decay is real
the measure is a tool.......in your head

Who is talking about tools? Oh you are, right. The arrow of time is not a tool but a natural process

 

[Thief]

Time can be measured.

time.....IS the measurement

a cognitive device made by man to serve man

 

[Thief]

The arrow of time is not a tool

oh yes it is

 

[Thief]

He didn't say time was an illusion, he said the distinction between past, present, and future was an illusion. The concept of space-time is central to his theory of general relativity.

distinction?......as in a definitive measure?

 

[ChristineM]

oh yes it is

Use it like a tool then.

Tell me how that goes for you

FYI
Entropy (arrow of time) - Wikipedia

 

[ratiocinator]

so.....space is real
matter is real
movement is real

but time is a MEASUREMENT

You can stamp your foot all you like, but the evidence says you are wrong and that the theory that uses space-time is accurate.

distinction?

It's the difference between time (which is a direction though space-time) and the perceived passage of time (past, present, future).

 

[Polymath257]

time.....IS the measurement

a cognitive device made by man to serve man

No more than length is the measurement and a cognitive device. Or charge, or pressure, or ....

Furthermore, the measurements taken show regularities that are consistent with the description in general relativity, which describes time as one aspect of the geometry of spacetime.

 

[Revoltingest]

quotients are in your head
and there is plenty of space for that

so.....space is real
matter is real
movement is real

but time is a MEASUREMENT

now.......stuff that into the space....in your head

feel better?

If you accept either Newton's law of gravity or general relativity
as cromulent, then you're accepting time, which is part of both.

 

[Thief]

If you accept either Newton's law of gravity or general relativity
as cromulent, then you're accepting time, which is part of both.

I understand.....we use measuement
TRYING to understand the item measured

the space
the matter
the movement

such things are real

the measure remains in your head

TRY to hold on to it

 

[Subduction Zone]

I understand.....we use measuement
TRYING to understand the item measured

the space
the matter
the movement

such things are real

the measure remains in your head

TRY to hold on to it

You cannot hold onto a distance any more than you can hold onto time.

 

[Thief]

It's the difference between time (which is a direction though space-time) and the perceived passage of time (past, present, future).

so you do understand.......measurements sometimes clarify perception

but the measure and the perception

are.....in your head

 

[Native]

Given the Kepler was using measurements made without telescopes and where the precision of Tycho's observations was about 1 arc minute (and Kepler didn't get that level of accuracy), the claim that the orbits were 'known' prior to Newton to the accuracy implied is simply silly.

Judging ancient and historic knowledge in *1 arc minute* is silly too as most ancient cultures really notised the 5 planetary motions in general. It´s simply an ancient and historic ignorance to do that.

 

[Thief]

You cannot hold onto a distance any more than you can hold onto time.

distance is a measure of space
time is a measure of movement

hold them in your head

 

[Subduction Zone]

distance is a measure of space
time is a measure of movement

hold them in your head

One cannot "hold" either in your head very well.

 

[ChristineM]

I understand.....we use measuement
TRYING to understand the item measured

the space
the matter
the movement

such things are real

the measure remains in your head

TRY to hold on to it

Entropy continues with or without intelligence to measure

 

[Thief]

One cannot "hold" either in your head very well.

that is correct

 

[Revoltingest]

I understand.....we use measuement
TRYING to understand the item measured

the space
the matter
the movement

such things are real

the measure remains in your head

TRY to hold on to it

Methinks you're placing too much importance on
Einstein's waxing poetic about time being illusory.
Distilling something complex down to analogies
for the uneducated masses sows confusion.
Measures are useful.
This makes time useful...as much so as mass.

An experiment...
Try assuming that time doesn't exist, eg, show
up at your dentist's office at the wrong time,
Report your results to us.

 

[Thief]

Entropy continues with or without intelligence to measure

true

the movement.....will go on
though we are not witness

like that tree making noise when it falls in the forest

 

[Thief]

Methinks you're placing too much importance on
Einstein's waxing poetic about time being illusory.
Distilling something complex down to analogies
for the uneducated masses sows confusion.
Measures are useful.
This makes time useful...as much so as mass.

An experiment...
Try assuming that time doesn't exist, eg, show
up at your dentist's office at the wrong time,
Report your results to us.

you do realize?......

TOOLMAKER (@#$%$%^%%^%^&^&&&$@##@@@!@@#$%^^&)....damn it
TOOLMAKER

 

[Polymath257]

Judging ancient and historic knowledge in *1 arc minute* is silly too as most ancient cultures really notised the 5 planetary motions in general. It´s simply an ancient and historic ignorance to do that.

And that is possible using ordinary vision and paying attention.

To get the *detailed* motion is what requires scientific reasoning.

So, yes, I will judge the ancient understanding on the 1 arc minute accuracy. And it is found wanting at far less accuracy than that. Getting the ancient models to work better than 1 degree is almost impossible.

Now, we have models that work to fractions of an arc *second*. And you claim they don't show any progress?