Why Didn't the Holy Spirit Know?

[Iymus]

Who is the son? Jesus never claimed to be the son of God.

Joh 10:36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?


Joh 19:6 When the chief priests therefore and officers saw him, they cried out, saying, Crucify him, crucify him. Pilate saith unto them, Take ye him, and crucify him: for I find no fault in him.
Joh 19:7 The Jews answered him, We have a law, and by our law he ought to die, because he made himself the Son of God.


Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Joh 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

only begotten or one of a kind son;

as Issac is Abraham's only begotten or one of a kind son.

Heb 11:17 By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten son,

 

[robocop (actually)]

Speaking about his second coming, Jesus said,

"But of that day and hour knoweth no [man], no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only." Matt 24:36.
​

I understand Trinitarians say that it was the "man part" of Jesus that didn't know the day and hour. Scripturally, it's not the best argument given that there are no verses that mention a "man part" of Jesus.

But we'll assume Jesus had a God part as well as a man part. But why doesn't the third person of the trinity know the day and hour? Is he also part God and part man?

"But of that day and hour knoweth no [man], no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only." Matt 24:36.

The Holy Ghost is not a man or an angel, so He might know.

 

[74x12]

Yes. As far as I understand it, the Jews and the early Christians understood the holy spirit to be the power of God in operation. I think it fits with God giving us His spirit. That is the only way we can carry out Jesus' directive that we could do the same works he did. Like Jesus, we too can manifest the power of God through that spirit.

Well, I believe the Spirit is when God moves. The literal translation of spirit in Hebrew is wind. So when God moves on anything it's the Spirit. Like when the Spirit came like a rushing mighty wind on the day of Pentecost. (Acts 2:1-4)

The Word of God is the breath/wind of God sent out with intention or structure. This is how God creates. So you talk with the air in your lungs. Your wind/breath is given shape or specific vibration by your vocal cords, tongue and lips. God does the same but His breath is the infinite Spirit. So the Word of God is comprised of the Spirit of God.

Psalm 33:6
By the word of the Lord were the heavens made; and all the host of them by the breath of his mouth.

We see this played out in Genesis 1:1-4. First, the Spirit hovers in silence over the face of the deep and then God speaks. The spoken Word of God brings Light. (Psalm 119:130)

Matthew 4:4
But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

This is why Jesus calls Himself the "Alpha and Omega". He is the structure or form that makes all things. The Word giving structure or form to the universe just as letters give form to words.

Note the similar wording of what Jesus says of Himself in John 8:42 and in Matthew 4:4.

Jesus claims He proceeded forth and came from God. He also says the Word of God proceeds from the mouth of God. So, it's easy to make the connection. Jesus is literally the Word made flesh.

 

[Maximus]

Yes. As far as I understand it, the Jews and the early Christians understood the holy spirit to be the power of God in operation. I think it fits with God giving us His spirit. That is the only way we can carry out Jesus' directive that we could do the same works he did. Like Jesus, we too can manifest the power of God through that spirit.

Got Modalism?

Modalism | CARM.org

 

[74x12]

Got Modalism?

Modalism | CARM.org

Why would you believe CARM? They're trinitarian.

The trinity is just man made doctrine to explain God's nature. It's not in the Bible.

 

[Maximus]

Why would you believe CARM? They're trinitarian.

The trinity is just man made doctrine to explain God's nature. It's not in the Bible.

Umm, I can link to another source for the definition of modalism if that would be helpful....

 

[74x12]

Umm, I can link to another source for the definition of modalism if that would be helpful....

Not necessary. It's just that CARM assumes it's error. Also, I don't think they are correct that modalism means God can only manifest one at time as the Father, Son and holy Spirit. Maybe some modalists believe this way; but not all. I don't.

 

[Maximus]

Not necessary. It's just that CARM assumes it's error. Also, I don't think they are correct that modalism means God can only manifest one at time as the Father, Son and holy Spirit. Maybe some modalists believe this way; but not all. I don't.

Modalism was around very early and was ultimately condemned as heresy. My point was simply that much of the talk in this thread seemed to be expressing modalist views.

https://www.theopedia.com/modalism

 

[sun rise]

God reveals Himself through words. If not taken as it simply says (5th grade reading level), how many different ways could it be taken? What would we have left if every individual could come up with their own reasoning?

That has, of course, happened given the number of different interpretations that are floating out there even among those who are literalists.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Speaking about his second coming, Jesus said,

"But of that day and hour knoweth no [man], no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only." Matt 24:36.
​

I understand Trinitarians say that it was the "man part" of Jesus that didn't know the day and hour. Scripturally, it's not the best argument given that there are no verses that mention a "man part" of Jesus.

But we'll assume Jesus had a God part as well as a man part. But why doesn't the third person of the trinity know the day and hour? Is he also part God and part man?

How I would see it is either jesus is the creator or he isn't. Trying to have it both ways doesn't make him more human with a little god. It's easier to see him as the son and medium between the creator and man. As long as the god/christ thing is there, one would always need faith. Cause you can't match yourself with god but you can with a human. That's the whole point. Aligning oneself with a human and seeing/experiencing his death die on the cross so a christians' death would do the same. But making him god makes god more of running on a treadmill rather than on foot.

 

[WhyIsThatSo]

Speaking about his second coming, Jesus said,

"But of that day and hour knoweth no [man], no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only." Matt 24:36.
​

I understand Trinitarians say that it was the "man part" of Jesus that didn't know the day and hour. Scripturally, it's not the best argument given that there are no verses that mention a "man part" of Jesus.

But we'll assume Jesus had a God part as well as a man part. But why doesn't the third person of the trinity know the day and hour? Is he also part God and part man?

" Once, when being asked by the Pharisees WHEN THE KINGDOM OF GOD WOULD COME, Jesus replied, " The coming of the kingdom of God is NOT something that can be OBSERVED, nor will people say "Here it is', or 'there it is'...
because the Kingdom of God is "WITHIN" you. ( Luke 17:20-21 )

Learn what this truly means and you will "know".

 

[WhyIsThatSo]

I thought we all were Son's and Daughters of God and that God was all our Father. I believe Jesus also gave us the prayer that starts Our Father. I believe several other prophets referred to god our Father. Its common. The only thing Jesus sort of agreed to was that he was the Messiah which according to scripture would be a decedent of David. Many prophets of the past did amazing miracles and none of them were a personal decedent of God. When did Jesus state he was a decedent of God and not man.

There are two "fathers"...,,,One of them is the real (True) One
There are two "Jesus's" ….one of them is flesh, and One of them "became flesh".
Jesus the man was the "Messiah" , yes ( Son of the God of the OT...and the usurper )
Jesus the Christ was the Son of The Living God and "Father" ( the True God )

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Speaking about his second coming, Jesus said,

"But of that day and hour knoweth no [man], no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only." Matt 24:36.
​

I understand Trinitarians say that it was the "man part" of Jesus that didn't know the day and hour. Scripturally, it's not the best argument given that there are no verses that mention a "man part" of Jesus.

But we'll assume Jesus had a God part as well as a man part. But why doesn't the third person of the trinity know the day and hour? Is he also part God and part man?

I see there are other ways to see that verse and it in no way indicates that the Holy Spirit does not know. I see that both the Son and the Father are born of the Holy Spirit.

The Key here is that the Father, like the Son, is a 'Station' given to Gods Messenger and not a literal interpretation.

Jesus, who came in the station of the Christ, the Son, said He would return with a new Name that the mouth of the Lord would name.

That Name was the 'Glory of God' Baha'u'llah and Baha'u'llah came in the Station of the Father and it was Baha'u'llah that brought about that DAY in prophecy.

When we read of the life of Baha'u'llah, we can read that He knew when that day would dawn and spent his entire life trying to prepare us for that 'Day' and guide us to recognize that 'Day'.

A key verse in understanding this, is the reply Peter gave to Jesus when Jesus asked them who do they think He was.

Matthew 16:13 ....... "Who do you say I am?" Simon Peter answered, "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God." Jesus replied, "Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by man, but by my Father in heaven."

The Father Baha'u'llah, is the return of Jesus Christ the Son. Christ is the name we can all come to our One God through, Christ ,"The Anointed One". Anointed by God.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Who is the son? Jesus never claimed to be the son of God.

Jesus also did not say He was not.

Matthew 16:13 ...... "Who do you say I am?" Simon Peter answered, "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God." Jesus replied, "Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by man, but by my Father in heaven. The Father Baha'u'llah, is the return of Jesus Christ the Son. Christ is the name we can all come to our One God through, Christ ,"The Anointed One". Anointed by God.

 

[Good-Ole-Rebel]

I thought we all were Son's and Daughters of God and that God was all our Father. I believe Jesus also gave us the prayer that starts Our Father. I believe several other prophets referred to god our Father. Its common. The only thing Jesus sort of agreed to was that he was the Messiah which according to scripture would be a decedent of David. Many prophets of the past did amazing miracles and none of them were a personal decedent of God. When did Jesus state he was a decedent of God and not man.

You said Jesus never claimed to be the Son of God. (John 17:1-5) proves you wrong.

Good-Ole-Rebel

 

[cataway]

Speaking about his second coming, Jesus said,

"But of that day and hour knoweth no [man], no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only." Matt 24:36.
​

I understand Trinitarians say that it was the "man part" of Jesus that didn't know the day and hour. Scripturally, it's not the best argument given that there are no verses that mention a "man part" of Jesus.

But we'll assume Jesus had a God part as well as a man part. But why doesn't the third person of the trinity know the day and hour? Is he also part God and part man?

the ''holy spirit '' is a servant of God . servants don't all ways know what the master knows or wants . it has to be told what to do and when to do it.

 

[rrobs]

I am christian but I don't believe the the Trinity, I was taught it and understand the concept but I believe Jesus was Human and separate from God. I also don't worry about my eventual end and prefer not to live on everlastingly.

Check out some of the things Jesus did between his resurrection and ascension.

1 Corinthians chapter 15 goes into some detail on the difference between Jesus' first body and the one he had after rising from the dead. Huge difference.

Phil 3:21,

Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.
​

We'll be getting a new body that will not be at all like the one's we have here. No pain, sorrow, sickness, etc. We will live in a place on earth even better than the Garden of Eden.

 

[rrobs]

God has not yet set the date.

Matthew 24:36 says God knows the day and hour. Maybe He didn't set the date, but He knows the date. I didn't set December 25 as Christmas, but I know the day we celebrate it is December 25.

 

[rrobs]

the ''holy spirit '' is a servant of God . servants don't all ways know what the master knows or wants . it has to be told what to do and when to do it.

That could be true if servant is equal to his master. God and the HS are supposedly equal as per trinity doctrine.

 

[74x12]

Modalism was around very early and was ultimately condemned as heresy. My point was simply that much of the talk in this thread seemed to be expressing modalist views.

https://www.theopedia.com/modalism

Who condemned it though? The Roman Catholics? I don't accept their judgment.