"Americans to religious organizations: Stay out of politics"

[Good-Ole-Rebel]

Not at all. I just think it's better when Americans support what is good for America. Your contention was that people want to silence Christians, which is simply not true, at least when it comes to Americans. Americans will not be silenced.

I as a Christian think the same, it is better when Americans support what is good.

Of course they want to silence Christians. That is exactly what they are saying. Go to church, but concerning politics, leave that to us.

Indeed, Americans will not be silenced.

Good-Ole-Rebel

 

[HonestJoe]

Well, if the pastor can speak as an individual to a believer or other believers in his church about who He wants to vote for, then what is your complaint?

If he isn’t speaking in an official capacity, I continue to have absolutely zero issue with that.

If a pastor voices who he and his church are supporting, what is your complaint?

Various people have different complaints. There’s the element of churches essentially receiving state funding due to favourable tax rules and that being associated with a principle of them not getting involved in politics in return. There is also the element of religious leaders in an official capacity essentially speaking on behalf of God and it should be obvious that both believers and non-believers could object to the idea of it being perceived (rightly or not) for an individual to declare that God supports or opposes a specific politician or party. Another issue would be the undue influence, that a pastor saying “this is who I’d vote for” could be heard by a follower as “this is who you must vote for”, regardless of whether it was intended or not. And for a simple point of practicality, an individual pastor can’t say what the entire church actually thinks on the matter so what he’d actually be saying is that all of his staff, theological and layperson, are required to follow the same political position.

It’s a specific example of any position or authority and respect coming with both implicit rights but also responsibilities. Maybe a good comparison might be a public university lecturer speaking to students on the same topic, in private or in the classroom.

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

I as a Christian think the same, it is better when Americans support what is good.

Well that's ironic.

 

[Skwim]

If a pastor speaks out because he is a Christian, what is the problem?

If (s)he is tying to influence a vote it's against the law.

6. No Political Activity For or Against Candidates Permitted
Church tax exemptions are in jeopardy if an organization engages in direct political activity either against or on behalf of a political candidate or in an attempt to directly influence the passage of particular legislation. Churches and religious organizations, just as any other tax-exempt charitable organization, are free to comment on any social, political, or moral issues. They may not, however, speak out for or against political candidates if they wish to continue being tax-exempt. Losing tax-exempt status can mean both having to pay income taxes and that donations to the group will not be tax deductible by the donors.

Court Cases:

• United States v. Christian Echoes National Ministry
• Branch Ministries v. Rossotti
• source

"Churches cannot campaign for, or against, a candidate in any way, either directly or indirectly. Campaigning includes, but is not limited to, promoting a candidate or making campaign contributions. However, churches are permitted to participate in non-biased voter education activities without risking their 501(c)(3) status. Also, religious leaders can run for office without risking their church’s tax-exempt status. However, those candidates cannot campaign during official church functions.

Charitable organizations, including churches, are generally prohibited from participating in the political process. In general, no organization, including a church, may qualify for IRC section 501(c)(3) status if a substantial part of its activities is attempting to influence legislation, known as lobbying; a church risks losing its 501(c)(3) status if it becomes involved in substantial lobbying activities. A church lobbies when its leadership contacts, or if it urges the public to contact, legislators with the intent to sway their votes. What constitutes substantial depends on the circumstances and a variety of factors are considered, including the time and money spent by the church on lobbying."
source​

 

[Stevicus]

I as a Christian think the same, it is better when Americans support what is good.

Of course they want to silence Christians. That is exactly what they are saying. Go to church, but concerning politics, leave that to us.

Indeed, Americans will not be silenced.

Good-Ole-Rebel

The whole idea is that all citizens have the same basic, equal rights. Christians who are citizens have the same rights as anyone else. What could be more fair than that?

Obviously, no one is being silenced. Maybe there are those who would like to silence others (not just Christians), but it's not going to happen.

Sure, some people might say "stay out of politics," but you're not under any requirement to obey them.

 

[shmogie]

So in a moment of magnificent brilliance you decide that by default I share whatever is in the articles Religion News Service prints. I know you try to understand these things, but please try harder. Promise?

.


.

You are who you are and you do what you do, post after post.

You cannot hide your motives by saying you are just the innocent conduit of information.

Really nice try, though.

 

[shmogie]

If (s)he is tying to influence a vote it's against the law.

6. No Political Activity For or Against Candidates Permitted
Church tax exemptions are in jeopardy if an organization engages in direct political activity either against or on behalf of a political candidate or in an attempt to directly influence the passage of particular legislation. Churches and religious organizations, just as any other tax-exempt charitable organization, are free to comment on any social, political, or moral issues. They may not, however, speak out for or against political candidates if they wish to continue being tax-exempt. Losing tax-exempt status can mean both having to pay income taxes and that donations to the group will not be tax deductible by the donors.

Court Cases:

• United States v. Christian Echoes National Ministry
• Branch Ministries v. Rossotti
• source

"Churches cannot campaign for, or against, a candidate in any way, either directly or indirectly. Campaigning includes, but is not limited to, promoting a candidate or making campaign contributions. However, churches are permitted to participate in non-biased voter education activities without risking their 501(c)(3) status. Also, religious leaders can run for office without risking their church’s tax-exempt status. However, those candidates cannot campaign during official church functions.

Charitable organizations, including churches, are generally prohibited from participating in the political process. In general, no organization, including a church, may qualify for IRC section 501(c)(3) status if a substantial part of its activities is attempting to influence legislation, known as lobbying; a church risks losing its 501(c)(3) status if it becomes involved in substantial lobbying activities. A church lobbies when its leadership contacts, or if it urges the public to contact, legislators with the intent to sway their votes. What constitutes substantial depends on the circumstances and a variety of factors are considered, including the time and money spent by the church on lobbying."
source​

Principles and issues at play in an election can be discussed from the pulpit, without mentioning any names.

 

[Shad]

If (s)he is tying to influence a vote it's against the law.

6. No Political Activity For or Against Candidates Permitted
Church tax exemptions are in jeopardy if an organization engages in direct political activity either against or on behalf of a political candidate or in an attempt to directly influence the passage of particular legislation. Churches and religious organizations, just as any other tax-exempt charitable organization, are free to comment on any social, political, or moral issues. They may not, however, speak out for or against political candidates if they wish to continue being tax-exempt. Losing tax-exempt status can mean both having to pay income taxes and that donations to the group will not be tax deductible by the donors.

Court Cases:

• United States v. Christian Echoes National Ministry
• Branch Ministries v. Rossotti
• source

"Churches cannot campaign for, or against, a candidate in any way, either directly or indirectly. Campaigning includes, but is not limited to, promoting a candidate or making campaign contributions. However, churches are permitted to participate in non-biased voter education activities without risking their 501(c)(3) status. Also, religious leaders can run for office without risking their church’s tax-exempt status. However, those candidates cannot campaign during official church functions.

Charitable organizations, including churches, are generally prohibited from participating in the political process. In general, no organization, including a church, may qualify for IRC section 501(c)(3) status if a substantial part of its activities is attempting to influence legislation, known as lobbying; a church risks losing its 501(c)(3) status if it becomes involved in substantial lobbying activities. A church lobbies when its leadership contacts, or if it urges the public to contact, legislators with the intent to sway their votes. What constitutes substantial depends on the circumstances and a variety of factors are considered, including the time and money spent by the church on lobbying."
source​

This law is not applicable to a pastor outside of their professional activities.

 

[Skwim]

This law is not applicable to a pastor outside of their professional activities.

Correct.

.

 

[Good-Ole-Rebel]

If he isn’t speaking in an official capacity, I continue to have absolutely zero issue with that.

Various people have different complaints. There’s the element of churches essentially receiving state funding due to favourable tax rules and that being associated with a principle of them not getting involved in politics in return. There is also the element of religious leaders in an official capacity essentially speaking on behalf of God and it should be obvious that both believers and non-believers could object to the idea of it being perceived (rightly or not) for an individual to declare that God supports or opposes a specific politician or party. Another issue would be the undue influence, that a pastor saying “this is who I’d vote for” could be heard by a follower as “this is who you must vote for”, regardless of whether it was intended or not. And for a simple point of practicality, an individual pastor can’t say what the entire church actually thinks on the matter so what he’d actually be saying is that all of his staff, theological and layperson, are required to follow the same political position.

It’s a specific example of any position or authority and respect coming with both implicit rights but also responsibilities. Maybe a good comparison might be a public university lecturer speaking to students on the same topic, in private or in the classroom.

Maybe you should just let Christians vote who ever they want to vote for. Be willing to say who they want to vote for. Be it the individual or the church they attend. Just like any other American can do.

Good-Ole-Rebel

 

[Good-Ole-Rebel]

Well that's ironic.

Why?

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

If you're religious, would you give a religion's stance on a secular political issue more credibility than usual because it's your religion?

Depends on if it matches up with Christ's teachings. Lots of what the Christian right and Christian left say doesn't.

 

[Good-Ole-Rebel]

If (s)he is tying to influence a vote it's against the law.

6. No Political Activity For or Against Candidates Permitted
Church tax exemptions are in jeopardy if an organization engages in direct political activity either against or on behalf of a political candidate or in an attempt to directly influence the passage of particular legislation. Churches and religious organizations, just as any other tax-exempt charitable organization, are free to comment on any social, political, or moral issues. They may not, however, speak out for or against political candidates if they wish to continue being tax-exempt. Losing tax-exempt status can mean both having to pay income taxes and that donations to the group will not be tax deductible by the donors.

Court Cases:

• United States v. Christian Echoes National Ministry
• Branch Ministries v. Rossotti
• source

"Churches cannot campaign for, or against, a candidate in any way, either directly or indirectly. Campaigning includes, but is not limited to, promoting a candidate or making campaign contributions. However, churches are permitted to participate in non-biased voter education activities without risking their 501(c)(3) status. Also, religious leaders can run for office without risking their church’s tax-exempt status. However, those candidates cannot campaign during official church functions.

Charitable organizations, including churches, are generally prohibited from participating in the political process. In general, no organization, including a church, may qualify for IRC section 501(c)(3) status if a substantial part of its activities is attempting to influence legislation, known as lobbying; a church risks losing its 501(c)(3) status if it becomes involved in substantial lobbying activities. A church lobbies when its leadership contacts, or if it urges the public to contact, legislators with the intent to sway their votes. What constitutes substantial depends on the circumstances and a variety of factors are considered, including the time and money spent by the church on lobbying."
source​

BS. Both sides of the political parties try and influence the vote. Concerning tax exempt, who cares. If you don't like it then take away the tax exempt.

Good-Ole-Rebel

 

[Good-Ole-Rebel]

The whole idea is that all citizens have the same basic, equal rights. Christians who are citizens have the same rights as anyone else. What could be more fair than that?

Obviously, no one is being silenced. Maybe there are those who would like to silence others (not just Christians), but it's not going to happen.

Sure, some people might say "stay out of politics," but you're not under any requirement to obey them.

Exactly right. Christian Americans are affected by politics as any other American. They have the right to vote, to support their candidate as anyone else has.

Good-Ole-Rebel

 

[Subduction Zone]

Exactly right. Christian Americans are affected by politics as any other American. They have the right to vote, to support their candidate as anyone else has.

Good-Ole-Rebel

Christians have that right but you need to be able to separate the people from the church that they go to. If a church advocates for a particular candidate or party then they can no longer claim to be non-profit. They are subject to taxes on their income and that is fine with me.

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

Why?

I'm sure you sincerely don't see it and aren't being willfully obtuse

 

[Shad]

Correct.

.

Yah. Just that the question said pastor not church.

A general problem is that often a pastor authority and respect for them held by followers or even in general remains even when acting in private life in non-church function.

 

[Skwim]

Depends on if it matches up with Christ's teachings. Lots of what the Christian right and Christian left say doesn't.

And even the Christian middle.

.

 

[Good-Ole-Rebel]

Christians have that right but you need to be able to separate the people from the church that they go to. If a church advocates for a particular candidate or party then they can no longer claim to be non-profit. They are subject to taxes on their income and that is fine with me.

It is fine with me too. But, how does having a political voice mean you are not 'non-profit'?

Good-Ole-Rebel

 

[wellwisher]

Christians have that right but you need to be able to separate the people from the church that they go to. If a church advocates for a particular candidate or party then they can no longer claim to be non-profit. They are subject to taxes on their income and that is fine with me.

So you are saying that only big money who the left claims "pays less than their fair share of taxes", gets to influence the political environment? Only they are allowed to hire lobbyists, who can help them buy politicians, to lower their taxes even further. Isn't this a problem in Washington? Why would a nonprofit, who does not have the big money to hire trained full time lobbyists be a bigger problem, since money seems to talk the loudest in Washington?

The answer is the Religious are more likely to vote for Conservatives, since religion is very conservative. This means left wing social engineering that is bad or wasteful will be held in check. The left would prefer take away freedom of speech and the pursuit of happiness from any people who do not agree with their godless philosophy, This is why the swamp is being drained.