Would/Should God communicate directly to everyone in the world?

[Vinayaka]

Of course. Rational people do not necessarily believe self appointed middle men.

Ciao

- viole

Why go through a middle man when it's just right there? We really need some guy to tell us how to pick apples from a tree?

 

[Trailblazer]

Why are you placing a condition on how God speaks? "Dear God, I will only accept an audible hallucination to know it's really you. Just say "yes" if you agree."

God doesn't need words.

I am not the one who is putting those conditions on God. It is an atheist from another forum.
No, God does not need words.

 

[Trailblazer]

Why go through a middle man when it's just right there? We really need some guy to tell us how to pick apples from a tree?

Because it is not "right there" for everyone. Some people need middlemen.

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

Your frame-of-reference is that God is separate from you. And that God cares if you believe or don't believe..

That absolutely does not matter in the least. If god does not care? God is evil, by being indifferent.

In fact, indifference is far more evil than directed, intentional evil.

That's not mine. Mine is that belief is not really important unless it motivates someone to change their actions to be more loving. Mine is also that God prefers atheists who act honorably to hypocritical believers who don't put their beliefs into action.

Well, that's a surprising change from most theists I've run into. It's nice.

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

I guess you only know Christians. I do not believe that God expects or demands anything from humans. God commands stuff but that is not the same as demanding stuff.

There might be an *or else* but there is no way to KNOW what that will be or who will get it.

So.... capricious, much? Or simply indifferent to the fates of those poor schlobs who don't fit whatever unknown criteria "god" wants?

Chaotic Evil best describes such a god. (I'm borrowing from AD&D here and other gaming systems of alignment, to avoid having a lengthy explanation)

 

[Vinayaka]

Because it is not "right there" for everyone. Some people need middlemen.

Some, yes. Too bad most of those also feel everyone else needs one too, hence we get all the proselytising and fake debates.

 

[Trailblazer]

Most likely you legitimately don't realise you're even doing it. But if 50 people here recognise it as that, just perhaps they're on to something. (It wasn't me that pointed it out ... this time) A teenager who tries something different like driving a car might be telling his friends about it for a week. He sees it as enthusiasm for his new found skill, but all his friends are sick of him talking about it.

Carry on.

You should have quit while you were ahead. Neither you nor Penguin know what is in the mind of any person other than yourself. I am not the one who keeps bringing up middlemen but one reason we need middlemen is to explain things that apparently not everyone knows, such as what Baha'u'llah wrote in The Hidden Words, that every one knows himself better than he knows others.

What you just said is even more arrogant than what you said before. So you think you know my motives better than I do? I told you I have verifiable evidence as to why I posted this thread, not that I should need it. I told you I have no interest in promoting the Baha'i Faith but if I have to talk about Messengers in response to posts that are posted to me I will do so. So you are as much as calling me a liar or a person who is not self-aware. But I know exactly why I posted this thread because I am very self-aware. I posted it because I care about another human being more than I care about myself. The very last thing I wanted or needed was to have to field all these posts.

For some reason the very idea of middlemen is bothersome to many people, but I do pretend to know the reasons why. Everyone has to determine that for themselves, if they care to know their own motives. Otherwise they can just continue with their pot shots at those of us who believe in middlemen; but funny thing, they mainly throw the pot shots at Baha'is, not at all the other believers who also believe in middlemen; Jews, Christians and Muslims. It is a lot more fun to pick on Baha'is because of course we are small in number.

There really is no logical reason why God would not use middlemen but there are many logical reasons why God would do so. So far, nobody has ever given me a logical reason why God would not use middlemen, and I have been waiting about six years, posting the question constantly on various forums. No, not everyone has direct access to God as some religious and nonreligious believers believe they do, and there is no reason for me or anyone else to believe that they have direct access to God because there is no evidence. By contrast, all the Messengers of God had evidence to back up their claims.

But the primary issue is not whether or not someone can have a *personal relationship* with God some way other than Messengers. I consider it very selfish to only concern oneself with that. The world is in dire need and people having personal relationships with God is not going to change that.

 

[Trailblazer]

Some, yes. Too bad most of those also feel everyone else needs one too, hence we get all the proselytising and fake debates.

Most people in the world do need middlemen since they do not have direct access to God the way *you think* you do.

The implications are clear. Not all people have to be reduced to going through middlemen because *we know* how to go directly to God. We are special so we do not need middlemen.

If that is not arrogant I have never seen arrogance. There are no words to describe how arrogant that is.

Who held a gun to your head and made you go on threads that you are not interested in? Who held a gun to anyone's head and made them read or post anything? If people do not LIKE the subject matter they do not have to read on the thread, unless of course they cannot resist trashing people for their beliefs.

 

[wizanda]

Why would God communicate directly to everyone on earth when most of those people are unworthy?

If each soul which is in creation is being manifest by the same Source, which one is less unworthy to exist?

Which soul is more or less connected to the Most High depends on their efforts, not on it wanting to communicate, else we wouldn't exist, do you get that?

If it creates us, we currently exists, and it currently wants to communicate with us; when it no longer wants to communicate, we just cease to exist.

Why would God be obligated to communicate to unworthy people just because they want to hear from God?

Because God the Source of our reality is like a CPU in a computer game, every client in the game is connected directly to the Source by its headset, so they can hear it in their console; they only have to ask the Source questions to get direct answers to spiritual questions in meditation.

just so we won't have to go into the restaurant and eat with everyone else (read the religious texts God has provided).

The menu in the restaurant only supplies the same instructions that people were already choosing to switch off in their own head.

So it isn't rational to assume they needed to go and study in the first place; no one needed a degree in theology to be saved, that was a Rabbinic Jewish idea to sell more paperwork...

The effort to study the religious texts leads to enlightenment, which is by eating the Good brain food they provide, it allows us to grow exponentially; as the concepts are like stepping stones to ascension.

Once we've learned the ascension, it isn't an exclusive club, we're meant to come back down the mountain, and help others ascend, as that is the nature of 0neness to help all in Oneness.

Do you understand that, so we become selfless (0) by our action to help others learn the religious text, emptying ourselves like the prophets did in expression of the Divine here on earth...

It would be like finding the best restaurant at the Source of reality, and then not telling others it exists; we need everyone to eat at the restaurant, and we need to find the ways to bring them all to realize it tastes amazing.

In my opinion.

 

[wizanda]

Why go through a middle man when it's just right there? We really need some guy to tell us how to pick apples from a tree?

Maybe as some need apple puree, as they're not ready for hard food yet?

In my opinion.

 

[Trailblazer]

Maybe as some need apple puree, as they're not ready for hard food yet?

In my opinion.

What exactly does that mean?

 

[Trailblazer]

Which soul is more or less connected to the Most High depends on their efforts, not on it wanting to communicate, else we wouldn't exist, do you get that?

Yes, I understand that.

If it creates us, we currently exists, and it currently wants to communicate with us; when it no longer wants to communicate, we just cease to exist.

But it does not want to communicate directly to us, it uses Messengers to communicate, Imo.

Because God the Source of our reality is like a CPU in a computer game, every client in the game is connected directly to the Source by its headset, so they can hear it in their console; they only have to ask the Source questions to get direct answers to spiritual questions in meditation.

With all due respect I do not believe that God speaks to anyone directly, but anyone can imagine answers are coming from God.

The effort to study the religious texts leads to enlightenment, which is by eating the Good brain food they provide, it allows us to grow exponentially; as the concepts are like stepping stones to ascension.

Once we've learned the ascension, it isn't an exclusive club, we're meant to come back down the mountain, and help others ascend, as that is the nature of 0neness to help all in Oneness.

Do you understand that, so we become selfless (0) by our action to help others learn the religious text, emptying ourselves like the prophets did in expression of the Divine here on earth...

Yes, I understand that.

It would be like finding the best restaurant at the Source of reality, and then not telling others it exists; we need everyone to eat at the restaurant, and we need to find the ways to bring them all to realize it tastes amazing.

You can lead a horse to water but you cannot make it drink.

 

[wizanda]

What exactly does that mean?

Some are still on baby food, they struggle to understand the Source, and so they need the chunky ideas of theology breaking down into puree, so they can digest it...

When some are smarter, it shows wisdom to help others less capable understand the vast potential in some of these writings by breaking it down into bits.

In my opinion.

 

[wizanda]

With all due respect I do not believe that God speaks to anyone directly, but anyone can imagine answers are coming from God.

OK, so when God spoke to the prophets according to the texts, how did God do that? Did God speak outside of them always or directly in their head?

Thus if the Source of reality can do that for them, why are we not hearing it would be my question?

I'd not assume I've got it right, when I can't hear, and the texts says everyone will hear in the time to come, and I agree with that.

If you learn to meditate properly, and listen within; you will realize the Source knows you better than any other being ever can, and it wants to help.

But it does not want to communicate directly to us, it uses Messengers to communicate, Imo.

The messengers were only pointing the way to the Source.

In my opinion.

 

[Ouroboros]

So you don't think that an Omniscient God would be smart enough to know who to choose to convey His message to all of mankind and that God would choose someone who does not have the capacity to understand and deliver those messages?

If you know anything about psychology, you know that we all filter our ideas. We're always biased. The prophet wouldn't be human, if he/she/it could be objective enough to convey a pure message.

Why would you think that everyone in the world would have the capacity to understand direct communication from God? Is God supposed to make them understand if they do not have the intelligence to understand?

Sounds like a contradiction.

You're saying that God can choose a person that convey God's message properly to all humans, but God can't himself convey the message to all humans? God can't do something? But a human is necessary to do it, and only a human can do it? Doesn't sound like God, but rather an excuse.

That might be true if it was life or death, in which case God might have communicated differently than Messengers, but it would not be directly to humans because humans could never understand direct communication from God, and then they would be even worse off because they did not read the scriptures which can be understood.

If humans can't understand direct communication from the pure source, how can they understand indirect communication from a faulty human?

If humans can't understand God's communication directly, they can't understand a human's interpretation and filtered communication either. Pure water doesn't get purer by pouring mud into it.

 

[Bird123]

If God exists and God is omnipotent, hypothetically speaking God could communicate directly to everyone rather than communicating through Messengers/Prophets. By everyone I mean every one of the 7.53 billion people in the world.

1. Do you think God (if God exists) would communicate directly to everyone?

• If you think that God would do this, please explain why you think so.
• If you think that God would not do this, please explain why you think so.

2. Do you think it is *reasonable* to expect God (if God exists) to communicate directly to everyone?

• If you think that is a reasonable expectation, please explain why you think so.
• If you think it is an unreasonable expectation, please explain why you think so.

3. Do you think that *rational people* would expect God to communicate directly to everyone?

• If you think rational people would expect God to do that, please explain why you think so.
• If you think rational people would not expect God to do that, please explain why you think so.

Question? If God spoke to you, how would that Change you? Since you have been taught to fear God, would not a conversation with God change the choices you make in life?

Since the goal is education instead of control, your free choice is important. Your free choices determine what you choose to learn. If you were intimidated not to make a choice you wanted to make, your lesson would be delayed until the intimidation was removed.

I think most have no concept of the IQ level of God. I think most would come out of the experience confused since most do not understand God at all. After one acquires enough knowledge, perhaps an encounter is possible. On the other hand, God is not going to do anything to interfere with any of His children's lessons directly or indirectly. Keep the lessons on the lessons. God's view =Let's don't make it about God. Unconditional Love always does what is Best for the other. For God, it has always been about US.

 

[LuisDantas]

I have no idea what you are responding to, but it sure does not appear to be anything I wrote.
Disagree with what? Wrong about what?

I was just giving some statistics and predictions. How is what I said is abusing the very basic ideas of God, of religion, and of transcendence?

There is either one true God or not. How well that works for people is totally irrelevant, unless those people are selfish.

They can argue otherwise but unless they have evidence that God has ever communicated in any other way they are up the creek without a paddle.

What is exotic about Messengers?

And I have no time for any God that would hand out free meal tickets and I can only hope that no one else does either. Obviously that is the case since most people believe in God and they had no free meal ticket.

What, do atheists think believing in God is as easy as falling off a log?
Atheists do not know how good they have it.

You know what?

I am wasting my time.

Be well. I will try not to reply to you anymore. Whatever you are describing is just too fantastic and too useless to me.

 

[Shad]

How does God communicate to everyone?

How does God do anything? You make up God magic that is how. Worked for your religion. Worked for other religions.

Your question is not only ironic but hilarious in it demostrates your lack of self-awareness.

 

[Trailblazer]

OK, so when God spoke to the prophets according to the texts, how did God do that? Did God speak outside of them always or directly in their head?

Thus if the Source of reality can do that for them, why are we not hearing it would be my question?

God chooses who he will communicate to, Imo, and He chooses those who have a divine and human nature. Only Prophets have both natures.

I'd not assume I've got it right, when I can't hear, and the texts says everyone will hear in the time to come, and I agree with that.

I do not think everyone will ever hear the Voice of God directly so maybe you interpret the texts differently than I do. I believe everyone will hear because they will all recognize the Messenger of God in the future.

If you learn to meditate properly, and listen within; you will realize the Source knows you better than any other being ever can, and it wants to help.

I am not saying we cannot have a connection to God and inspiration from God. I just do not believe that we get direct communication from God as would a Prophet.

 

[Trailblazer]

If you know anything about psychology, you know that we all filter our ideas. We're always biased. The prophet wouldn't be human, if he/she/it could be objective enough to convey a pure message.

Messengers of God (Prophets) have a dual nature, they are both divine and human. It is their divine mind that filters the message from God so are no mistakes.

You're saying that God can choose a person that convey God's message properly to all humans, but God can't himself convey the message to all humans? God can't do something? But a human is necessary to do it, and only a human can do it? Doesn't sound like God, but rather an excuse.

I never said that God could not convey a message to all humans but it would be an utter waste if time because no ordinary human has a divine mind so no ordinary human could understand communication from God. Thus the limitation is a human limitation, not a limitation of God.

Why on earth would God need to communicate to every human being on earth when God can communicate to a Messenger who can get the message out to all of humanity in writing? There is no reason to do this except that some people don't like Messengers. That's just too bad though because God is the one delivering the messages and an Omnipotent God chooses how He will do that.

If humans can't understand direct communication from the pure source, how can they understand indirect communication from a faulty human?

They are not getting communication from a faulty human, they are getting it from a Messenger of God who is infallible.

If humans can't understand God's communication directly, they can't understand a human's interpretation and filtered communication either. Pure water doesn't get purer by pouring mud into it.

Humans certainly can understand it. All they need to know is how to read the scriptures which are written by a Messenger of God, who is a pure Source of information.