What Did Jesus Actually Do?

[ChristineM]

I don’t think you’re wrapping your head around the fact that this isn’t history — at least not in the way you and I usually think of it. This is theology.

I get it; you’re not used to thinking theologically. That’s ok. But you can’t expect something to be something it isn’t just because you’re not used to thinking in those terms.

My whole point is that it isnt history,. It is fiction. It is stories, it is written to get a response.

You keep skirting on agreement but cannot bring yourself to admit that i say the scriptures (for the most part) are ficticious and you say the scriptures are ficticious but you add they are theological (obviously bu it does not make fiction into non fiction)

 

[ChristineM]

You're not even that, then, since you didn't even show up in the arena for a trot-around.

 

[sojourner]

I am me, with multiple roles, i am still the same person? But that is pretty much irrelevant to the discrepancies in the scriptures

If me as a mother sees someone carrying out an action and other people see the same action then reporting on that action will be at least similar if not the same.

If me as a lover does something on a specific date that i did not do the day before then i did not do it the day before.

But as I said, fact-reporting was not particularly on the agenda then and there. The fact that it was written at all in that culture means that it’s important.

 

[sojourner]

My whole point is that it isnt history,. It is fiction. It is stories, it is written to get a response.

You keep skirting on agreement but cannot bring yourself to admit that i say the scriptures (for the most part) are ficticious and you say the scriptures are ficticious but you add they are theological (obviously bu it does not make fiction into non fiction)

I agree that many of them are made up stories. What I have an issue with is muddying the literary waters. These are not works of Fiction. They’re works of Gospel. We need to be clear what types of literature they are.

 

[Spartan]

There is one more thing, facepalm. Since you're unable to falsify anything in the Gospels, then you might want to consider reevaluating your untenable, anti-Christianity position. It's not working for you.

 

[ChristineM]

But as I said, fact-reporting was not particularly on the agenda then and there. The fact that it was written at all in that culture means that it’s important.

In have not said otherwise, the bible, both old and new testaments arw among the greatest pieces if fiction yet decided

 

[Spartan]

In have not said otherwise, the bible, both old and new testaments arw among the greatest pieces if fiction yet decided

Once again, you're UNABLE to back up your rhetoric. Where's the fiction in the Gospels? You should be embarrassed that you call it fiction but can't back up your hot air claims.

 

[ChristineM]

I agree that many of them are made up stories. What I have an issue with is muddying the literary waters. These are not works of Fiction. They’re works of Gospel. We need to be clear what types of literature they are.

Made up stories = fiction.

They may be of a theological genre but none the less, fiction

 

[ChristineM]

Once again, you're UNABLE to back up your rhetoric. Where's the fiction in the Gospels? You should be embarrassed that you call it fiction but can't back up your hot air claims.

Sheesh, already shown, i am not going round on circles just because you refuse to accept fact.

 

[Audie]

Sheesh, already shown, i am not going round on circles just because you refuse to accept fact.

These people are like all who have been scammed,
they have the hardest time admitting it.

 

[sojourner]

In have not said otherwise, the bible, both old and new testaments arw among the greatest pieces if fiction yet decided

They contain fiction, but they are not fiction. I really think we need to be clear about that.

 

[sojourner]

Made up stories = fiction.

They may be of a theological genre but none the less, fiction

Not always. Sometimes made up stories = myth. Sometimes made up stories = Gospel. Sometimes made up stories = biography. Sometimes made up stories = history. Not all cultures in all times honor raw fact as we do. It has to do more with intent than it does content.

 

[Goodman John]

Historical Fiction? Like the film Gladiator?

 

[Spartan]

These people are like all who have been scammed,
they have the hardest time admitting it.

Show me how I as a Christian have been scammed?

 

[ChristineM]

They contain fiction, but they are not fiction. I really think we need to be clear about that.

So Harry Potter contains reality (Alnwick Castle) so by your reckoning they are not fictional books.

You believe they are not fiction despite admitting they are fictional at least in parts

I believe they are fictional with some reality (incidental names and places)., Why i believe this is... the contradictory scriptures, the total lack of evidence, the alternative explanations (with more evidence than the contradictory circular scriptures) and basic logic.

 

[ChristineM]

Not always. Sometimes made up stories = myth. Sometimes made up stories = Gospel. Sometimes made up stories = biography. Sometimes made up stories = history. Not all cultures in all times honor raw fact as we do. It has to do more with intent than it does content.

Myth are fiction. I know of no myths that are not, but there may be factual myths
Gospels are fiction, see above
Biographies are generally not made up, those that are are usually trashed along with the authors reputation
History can be made up if facts are scanty or national revisionism is in play. I know several such instances.

So again you agree (in a round about way (again)).

To be honest i am getting rather bored with this 'they are not fact but they are not fiction' scenario.

 

[1213]

Muhammad united warring Arabian tribes into a single confederacy within a lifetime. Even if he hadn't brought a new religion, what he did would still have changed the world map.

Jesus was a wandering nobody. What did he do that non-religious people should take note?

By what I know, Muhammad was a warlord, Jesus peace Lord. Jesus did this:

"The Spirit of the Lord is on me, Because he has anointed me to preach good news to the poor. He has sent me to heal the brokenhearted, To proclaim release to the captives, Recovering of sight to the blind, To deliver those who are crushed, And to proclaim the acceptable year of the Lord."
Luke 4:18-19

And people killed Jesus. It is interesting how people seem to love more war than peace and righteousness.

Jesus established the new covenant and God’s kingdom.

For finding fault with them, he said, "Behold, the days come," says the Lord, "That I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah; Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers, In the day that I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; For they didn't continue in my covenant, And I disregarded them," says the Lord. "For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel. After those days," says the Lord; "I will put my laws into their mind, I will also write them on their heart. I will be to them a God, And they will be to me a people. They will not teach every man his fellow citizen, Every man his brother, saying, 'Know the Lord,' For all will know me, From the least of them to the greatest of them. For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness. I will remember their sins and lawless deeds no more."
Hebrews 8:8-12 (Jeremiah 31:31-34)

Jesus answered, "My kingdom is not of this world. If my kingdom were of this world, then my servants would fight, that I wouldn't be delivered to the Jews. But now my kingdom is not from here."
John 18:36

"The Kingdom of God doesn't come with observation; neither will they say, 'Look, here!' or, 'Look, there!' for behold, the Kingdom of God is within you."
Luke 17:20-21

"Therefore don't be anxious, saying, 'What will we eat?', 'What will we drink?' or, 'With what will we be clothed?' For the Gentiles seek after all these things, for your heavenly Father knows that you need all these things. But seek first God's Kingdom, and his righteousness; and all these things will be given to you as well.
Matthew 6:31-33

I recommend to take note of the teachings of Jesus. And I think it is ridiculous to say Jesus is nobody, when Christianity is major religion even today.

 

[Audie]

By what I know, Muhammad was a warlord, Jesus peace Lord. Jesus did this:

"The Spirit of the Lord is on me, Because he has anointed me to preach good news to the poor. He has sent me to heal the brokenhearted, To proclaim release to the captives, Recovering of sight to the blind, To deliver those who are crushed, And to proclaim the acceptable year of the Lord."
Luke 4:18-19

And people killed Jesus. It is interesting how people seem to love more war than peace and righteousness.

Jesus established the new covenant and God’s kingdom.

For finding fault with them, he said, "Behold, the days come," says the Lord, "That I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah; Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers, In the day that I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; For they didn't continue in my covenant, And I disregarded them," says the Lord. "For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel. After those days," says the Lord; "I will put my laws into their mind, I will also write them on their heart. I will be to them a God, And they will be to me a people. They will not teach every man his fellow citizen, Every man his brother, saying, 'Know the Lord,' For all will know me, From the least of them to the greatest of them. For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness. I will remember their sins and lawless deeds no more."
Hebrews 8:8-12 (Jeremiah 31:31-34)

Jesus answered, "My kingdom is not of this world. If my kingdom were of this world, then my servants would fight, that I wouldn't be delivered to the Jews. But now my kingdom is not from here."
John 18:36

"The Kingdom of God doesn't come with observation; neither will they say, 'Look, here!' or, 'Look, there!' for behold, the Kingdom of God is within you."
Luke 17:20-21

"Therefore don't be anxious, saying, 'What will we eat?', 'What will we drink?' or, 'With what will we be clothed?' For the Gentiles seek after all these things, for your heavenly Father knows that you need all these things. But seek first God's Kingdom, and his righteousness; and all these things will be given to you as well.
Matthew 6:31-33

I recommend to take note of the teachings of Jesus. And I think it is ridiculous to say Jesus is nobody, when Christianity is major religion even today.

Ridiculous to say Joseph Smith "is nobody" but
it hardly makes him a messenger of god.

All religions are full of advice on how to
get to heaven.

None of the wisdom ascribed to "Jesus" is anything
new different special. We learn the same ethos in
China, it is what is expected of civilized people.

We don't, though, recommend such foolish
economic advice as this..
Therefore don't be anxious, saying, 'What will we eat?', 'What will we drink?' or, 'With what will we be clothed?

And I bet you do not follow that!

 

[Audie]

So Harry Potter contains reality (Alnwick Castle) so by your reckoning they are not fictional books.

You believe they are not fiction despite admitting they are fictional at least in parts

I believe they are fictional with some reality (incidental names and places)., Why i believe this is... the contradictory scriptures, the total lack of evidence, the alternative explanations (with more evidence than the contradictory circular scriptures) and basic logic.

Bible is a semi-historical novel, heavy on the
magic raalism.

 

[ChristineM]

Bible is a semi-historical novel, heavy on the
magic raalism.

Not much historical in it. I have read a lot of history of the period and the bible does not compare.