Luke the careful historian tells it like it is

[whirlingmerc]

So you did not review the evidence. Fair enough

Actually Luke gets the titles right every time
and fitting to the right places


Accuracy and Reliability of the Gospel of Luke
Luke's use of Specialised Titles

• One of the most remarkable things about Luke's accuracy was his familiarity with the correct titles of all the notable persons he mentioned - that is not an easy feat in those days (there is no encyclopedia of "Who is who" or the Internet) - (to illustrate: how did the Germans call Hitler ?)
  
  
  
• Example 1:
  
  
  • 
    In Acts 13 v 7, Luke addressed Sergius Paulus with the (correct) term "anthupa";, translated "deputy"; or "proconsul.";
  
  
  
• Example 2:
  
  
  • 
    In Acts 16 v 19, Luke used the correct title "archon", translated "rulers"; or "authorities";
  
  
  
• Example 3:
  
  
  • 
    In Acts 16 v 35, he used the correct titles "praetors"; and "lictors";, translated "magistrates"; and "serjants"; or "officers";
  
  
  
• Example 4:
  
  
  • 
    Luke correctly called Herod Antipas "tetrarch".
    (On the other hand, Herod's Jewish subjects called him "King" (see Mark 6 v 14). But Herod was never promoted to royal status by the Emperor and Luke is right to call him by the lower title "tetrarch")
    

 

[whirlingmerc]

Wow yea sounds interesting, I will watch it thanks for putting it up!

Hardly fiction

Accuracy and Reliability of the Gospel of Luke

• Luke and the Roman Historian Suetonius
  
  
  • One of the few passages of Luke's writing that (still) marveled me is Acts 18:2 where Luke reports:
    
    
    Acts 18:2--- There he became acquainted with a Jew named Aquila, born in Pontus, who had recently arrived from Italy with his wife, Priscilla. They had been expelled from Italy as a result of Claudius Caesar's order to deport all Jews from Rome.
    
    
    
    
    
  • I hope you felt the same curiousity as I did.... Luke mentioned that Jews were being expelled from Rome.... Was that true ? And if so, why ???
    
    
    
  • I went on the Internet and start searching for clues, and it was just lucky that the Roman Historian Suetonius did record this event in his work "Life of Claudius"; and..... Suetonius also mentioned why:
    
    
    As the Jews were making constant disturbances at the instigation of Chrestus [= Christ?], he [Claudius] expelled them from Rome.
    
    
    
    
    • Supporting material: click here
    
    
    
  • I was pleasantly surprised that the reason was due to the spread of Christianity (the first Christians were Jews converts....)
    
    
    
  • As far as I can tell, this event (where Jews are being expelled from Rome) was mentioned by only two ancient writers: Luke and Suetonius.
    (BTW, the skeptics could not accuse Luke of anything because Suetonius' writing was known to them..... It's just odd that the skeptics did not take a hint from the fact that Luke's mentioning of such a "strange" event and Suetonius' confirmation of its accuracy that Luke himself was very very careful in his research).
    

 

[Riders]

Hardly fiction

Accuracy and Reliability of the Gospel of Luke

• Luke and the Roman Historian Suetonius
  
  • One of the few passages of Luke's writing that (still) marveled me is Acts 18:2 where Luke reports:
    
    
    Acts 18:2--- There he became acquainted with a Jew named Aquila, born in Pontus, who had recently arrived from Italy with his wife, Priscilla. They had been expelled from Italy as a result of Claudius Caesar's order to deport all Jews from Rome.
    
    
    
    
    
  • I hope you felt the same curiousity as I did.... Luke mentioned that Jews were being expelled from Rome.... Was that true ? And if so, why ???
    
    
    
  • I went on the Internet and start searching for clues, and it was just lucky that the Roman Historian Suetonius did record this event in his work "Life of Claudius"; and..... Suetonius also mentioned why:
    
    
    As the Jews were making constant disturbances at the instigation of Chrestus [= Christ?], he [Claudius] expelled them from Rome.
    
    
    
    • Supporting material: click here
    
    
    
  • I was pleasantly surprised that the reason was due to the spread of Christianity (the first Christians were Jews converts....)
    
    
    
  • As far as I can tell, this event (where Jews are being expelled from Rome) was mentioned by only two ancient writers: Luke and Suetonius.
    (BTW, the skeptics could not accuse Luke of anything because Suetonius' writing was known to them..... It's just odd that the skeptics did not take a hint from the fact that Luke's mentioning of such a "strange" event and Suetonius' confirmation of its accuracy that Luke himself was very very careful in his research).

I went on the Internet and start searching for clues, and it was just lucky that the Roman Historian Suetonius did record this event in his work "Life of Claudius"; and..... Suetonius also mentioned why:


As the Jews were making constant disturbances at the instigation of Chrestus [= Christ?], he [Claudius] expelled them from Rome.

If your doing a search to make the bible ot Luke look like a historian, and the bible to look good you will find proof for one there is plenty of fake proof written by Christians.I Will see what wiki says about that. Wiki is reliable.

 

[Riders]

Hardly fiction

Accuracy and Reliability of the Gospel of Luke

• Luke and the Roman Historian Suetonius
  
  • One of the few passages of Luke's writing that (still) marveled me is Acts 18:2 where Luke reports:
    
    
    Acts 18:2--- There he became acquainted with a Jew named Aquila, born in Pontus, who had recently arrived from Italy with his wife, Priscilla. They had been expelled from Italy as a result of Claudius Caesar's order to deport all Jews from Rome.
    
    
    
    
    
  • I hope you felt the same curiousity as I did.... Luke mentioned that Jews were being expelled from Rome.... Was that true ? And if so, why ???
    
    
    
  • I went on the Internet and start searching for clues, and it was just lucky that the Roman Historian Suetonius did record this event in his work "Life of Claudius"; and..... Suetonius also mentioned why:
    
    
    As the Jews were making constant disturbances at the instigation of Chrestus [= Christ?], he [Claudius] expelled them from Rome.
    
    
    
    • Supporting material: click here
    
    
    
  • I was pleasantly surprised that the reason was due to the spread of Christianity (the first Christians were Jews converts....)
    
    
    
  • As far as I can tell, this event (where Jews are being expelled from Rome) was mentioned by only two ancient writers: Luke and Suetonius.
    (BTW, the skeptics could not accuse Luke of anything because Suetonius' writing was known to them..... It's just odd that the skeptics did not take a hint from the fact that Luke's mentioning of such a "strange" event and Suetonius' confirmation of its accuracy that Luke himself was very very careful in his research).

ROTFLMFAO the first wiki page I went to Suetonius was his bio and had many mentions of historical books he wrote on famous folks back then fro Rome and such.

Then I found this Suetanius which says he spoke about early Christians some say he spoke about Jesus akthough there is no mention of Jesus name;
What he said about early Christians being one of the many who were killed by Nero, or tortured whatever, that Christians are too religious and not a good group. LMAO guess wiki does not agree with you.

Suetonius on Christians - Wikipedia

 

[Riders]

Heres the bio on Sutonius which has his work on Pontius Pilate but not Jesus no mention of writings on Christianity whatsoever, but tons of his historical writings about those times how cool he was a good historian...........wow such good evidence against Luke and the bible.Im having a chuckle about it.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Hardly fiction

Accuracy and Reliability of the Gospel of Luke

• Luke and the Roman Historian Suetonius
  
  • One of the few passages of Luke's writing that (still) marveled me is Acts 18:2 where Luke reports:
    
    
    Acts 18:2--- There he became acquainted with a Jew named Aquila, born in Pontus, who had recently arrived from Italy with his wife, Priscilla. They had been expelled from Italy as a result of Claudius Caesar's order to deport all Jews from Rome.
    
    
    
    
    
  • I hope you felt the same curiousity as I did.... Luke mentioned that Jews were being expelled from Rome.... Was that true ? And if so, why ???
    
    
    
  • I went on the Internet and start searching for clues, and it was just lucky that the Roman Historian Suetonius did record this event in his work "Life of Claudius"; and..... Suetonius also mentioned why:
    
    
    As the Jews were making constant disturbances at the instigation of Chrestus [= Christ?], he [Claudius] expelled them from Rome.
    
    
    
    • Supporting material: click here
    
    
    
  • I was pleasantly surprised that the reason was due to the spread of Christianity (the first Christians were Jews converts....)
    
    
    
  • As far as I can tell, this event (where Jews are being expelled from Rome) was mentioned by only two ancient writers: Luke and Suetonius.
    (BTW, the skeptics could not accuse Luke of anything because Suetonius' writing was known to them..... It's just odd that the skeptics did not take a hint from the fact that Luke's mentioning of such a "strange" event and Suetonius' confirmation of its accuracy that Luke himself was very very careful in his research).

You should not say "Luke said" since it is almost certain that the Gospel of Luke was not Luke himself. But yes, a Jew from that time would almost certainly get such a fact right. Why are your surprised? You should be more concerned with what he got wrong.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

"Archaeologist Jonathan L. Reed observes that “The many archaeological discoveries relating to people, places, or titles mentioned in Acts do lend credence to its historicity at one level; many of the specific details in Acts are factual.”"

Sounds careful to me
Archaeology and the Historical Reliability of the New Testament

That's not a judgement of Luke as a historian...which I think was your point, right?

 

[oldbadger]

Jesus was not important.. He was a shepherd boy who grew up in Nazareth.

That's daft.
You call the step-son of a handworker a shepherd boy.
There was no room for sheep on Nazareth's rocky hill.

Where do yiou get this stuff from?

 

[oldbadger]

How can I get my check changed, if I have the wrong ID?
Sir. Your ID please...
Okay. Here you go. Luke 2:5
Um sir. This does not match.
Really? I'm sorry, the only other id I have belongs to my brother.
Let me see.
Here... Acts 5:37
Oh yes. Perfect. ...
What? Someone needs glasses.... but I'm not complaining as long as I can get my money and leave this God-forsaken place.... soon to come under his wrath.

You want more examples to show that Luke included some glaring false testimonies in his gospel? I selected three from the first page or two.

Look......... if you believe in Luke's gospel, and have faith in it, that's fine, but this thread is showing that care is needed about what to keep and what to chuck out.

This is what happens when non-witnesses build a story from various anecdotes .... years after the event, and for the purpose of selling a faith.

 

[oldbadger]

Why is that important to the story of Jesus?

Well, it isn't important to the Jesus story because it's junk.

Jesus was a Galilean working peasant who supported the peasant classes, not the Upper class privileged Levite clan. And Mary was the wife of a working peasant. She lived on a nearby Galilean hilltop with other workers.... her folks probable lived on Cana.

Ergo.... the 'Cousin' story is more than just suspect, it's drivvle.

 

[oldbadger]

It doesn't say she went alone now, did it?

Ah ha! So in Luke's clear and detailed account he didn't mention that she went on the Jordan route with relatives, etc?

Do you think that a pregnant girl (they married very young) could go wandering around Palestine during such a time? And where was Joseph at that time?

Can't you see the obvious manipulation in the story in silly attempts to relate a lone self-subsisting wanderer how despised the priesthood totally with the son of a Galilean handworker's Mum?

If you believe it, then ok, but this thread is about Luke's strange ideas........... and I have been kind.... I could fill this thread with examples.

 

[ChristineM]

I didn't say any of that.
Listen. I said, There is evidence - verified - that the Bible accounts are reliable history.
You are actually tempting me to get started on what you believe, so maybe you might want to check your words carefully. For starters, "accepting something as true does not make it true" Bravo. How does your belief system "establish fact"?


Again, check carefully what you say, before saying it. What has been proven, by your belief system?
Where then does that leave you?
Right back where I left you. "you believe anything that sounds appealing to you, because there is no evidence for what you believe."

Actually there is independent contemporary evidence that some minor mentions in the bible existed as do some of the places. There is no evidence that jesus existed as described in the bible. Or many of the main characters. If there were falsifiable evidence then you would not need faith to believe.

Feel free to get started

Fyi, i am fully aware of what i say so please do not imply that i am not or i may be tempted to put some of that evidence your way.

Fact : a thing that is known or proved to be true.

Not a thing that is believed to be true.

There is considerable evidence that the earth exists, people exist, other planets exist. What i believe in is reality.

 

[JJ50]

Actually there is independent contemporary evidence that some minor mentions in the bible existed as do some of the places. There is no evidence that jesus existed as described in the bible. Or many of the main characters. If there were falsifiable evidence then you would not need faith to believe.

Feel free to get started

Fyi, i am fully aware of what i say so please do not imply that i am not or i may be tempted to put some of that evidence your way.

Fact : a thing that is known or proved to be true.

Not a thing that is believed to be true.

There is considerable evidence that the earth exists, people exist, other planets exist. What i believe in is reality.

Good post.

 

[ChristineM]

Actually Luke gets the titles right every time
and fitting to the right places


Accuracy and Reliability of the Gospel of Luke
Luke's use of Specialised Titles

• One of the most remarkable things about Luke's accuracy was his familiarity with the correct titles of all the notable persons he mentioned - that is not an easy feat in those days (there is no encyclopedia of "Who is who" or the Internet) - (to illustrate: how did the Germans call Hitler ?)
  
  
  
• Example 1:
  • 
    In Acts 13 v 7, Luke addressed Sergius Paulus with the (correct) term "anthupa";, translated "deputy"; or "proconsul.";
  
  
  
• Example 2:
  • 
    In Acts 16 v 19, Luke used the correct title "archon", translated "rulers"; or "authorities";
  
  
  
• Example 3:
  • 
    In Acts 16 v 35, he used the correct titles "praetors"; and "lictors";, translated "magistrates"; and "serjants"; or "officers";
  
  
  
• Example 4:
  • 
    Luke correctly called Herod Antipas "tetrarch".
    (On the other hand, Herod's Jewish subjects called him "King" (see Mark 6 v 14). But Herod was never promoted to royal status by the Emperor and Luke is right to call him by the lower title "tetrarch")

So he called a deputy a deputy some 50+ years after events.

Another wow, using the correct word again.

Yes under roman rule those terms (praetors"; and "lictors) were in daily use right across the roman empire. Praetors always went on public engagements accompanied by lictors (to clear their way), the number of lictors indicated the preators status.

I guess in the same way that some dictators call themselves grand names and their subjects do to. Whereas their enemies will call them lesser names.

Nothing new or striking here,

 

[ChristineM]

Good post.

Thanks

 

[whirlingmerc]

Thanks

Luke is loaded wit specifics about real people which is the Hallmark of a careful historian

Pontius Pilate Luke 3 v 1; Luke 13 v 1, Luke 23 v 1, 3, etc
Herod the Great, Bernice Luke 1 v 5; Luke 25 v 13; Luke 26 v 30
Sergius Paulus Acts 13 v 7
Drusilla Acts 24 v 24
Gallio Acts 18 v 12
Annas Luke 3 v 2; Acts 4 v 6
Felix Acts 23 v 24; Acts 23 v 26
Caiaphas Luke 3 v 2; Acts 4 v 6
Festus Acts 24 v 27; Acts 25 v 1, etc.
Ananias Acts 23 v 2; Acts 24 v 1
King Herod Agrippa I Acts 12 v 1
Gamaliel Acts 5 v 34; Acts 22 v 3
King Herod Agrippa II Acts 25 v 13, Acts 25 v 26
Herod Antipas, the tetrarch of Galilee Luke 3 v 1

Not the stuff of Myths

 

[ChristineM]

Luke is loaded wit specifics about real people which is the Hallmark of a careful historian

Pontius Pilate Luke 3 v 1; Luke 13 v 1, Luke 23 v 1, 3, etc
Herod the Great, Bernice Luke 1 v 5; Luke 25 v 13; Luke 26 v 30
Sergius Paulus Acts 13 v 7
Drusilla Acts 24 v 24
Gallio Acts 18 v 12
Annas Luke 3 v 2; Acts 4 v 6
Felix Acts 23 v 24; Acts 23 v 26
Caiaphas Luke 3 v 2; Acts 4 v 6
Festus Acts 24 v 27; Acts 25 v 1, etc.
Ananias Acts 23 v 2; Acts 24 v 1
King Herod Agrippa I Acts 12 v 1
Gamaliel Acts 5 v 34; Acts 22 v 3
King Herod Agrippa II Acts 25 v 13, Acts 25 v 26
Herod Antipas, the tetrarch of Galilee Luke 3 v 1

Not the stuff of Myths

As have said in an earlier post, some minor characters mentioned in the bible existed, there is independent, corroborating evidence.

Any good book will use reality as a backdrop to lend more credibility to the story

 

[Spartan]

Ah ha! So in Luke's clear and detailed account he didn't mention that she went on the Jordan route with relatives, etc?

You trying to say she went alone? No evidence of that in Luke. That's a logical fallacy - an argument from silence - if you believe that.

 

[Spartan]

Ergo.... the 'Cousin' story is more than just suspect, it's drivvle.

I don't believe that.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Luke is loaded wit specifics about real people which is the Hallmark of a careful historian

Pontius Pilate Luke 3 v 1; Luke 13 v 1, Luke 23 v 1, 3, etc
Herod the Great, Bernice Luke 1 v 5; Luke 25 v 13; Luke 26 v 30
Sergius Paulus Acts 13 v 7
Drusilla Acts 24 v 24
Gallio Acts 18 v 12
Annas Luke 3 v 2; Acts 4 v 6
Felix Acts 23 v 24; Acts 23 v 26
Caiaphas Luke 3 v 2; Acts 4 v 6
Festus Acts 24 v 27; Acts 25 v 1, etc.
Ananias Acts 23 v 2; Acts 24 v 1
King Herod Agrippa I Acts 12 v 1
Gamaliel Acts 5 v 34; Acts 22 v 3
King Herod Agrippa II Acts 25 v 13, Acts 25 v 26
Herod Antipas, the tetrarch of Galilee Luke 3 v 1

Not the stuff of Myths

You make the typical all of nothing errors of the literalist. Yes, the author of Luke,not Luke himself, got some basic ideas right. He also got some history terribly wrong.