The creator did it.

[tas8831]

Inconsistencies Found Within the Bible 101

1. Has anyone seen god?
No man hath seen god at any time -John 1:18
vs
For I have seen god face to face -Genesis 32:30
2. When was Jesus crucified?
And it was the third hour and they crucified him -Mark 15:25
vs
And about the sixth hour; and he saith to the Jews Behold your King! But they cried out crucify him! -john 19:15-15
3. How many animals on the Ark?
And of every living thing of all flesh, two of every sort shalt thou bring into the Ark -Genesis 6:19
vs
Of every clean beast thou shalt take to thee by sevens -Genesis 7:2
4. Did Michal have children?
Therefore Michal the daughter of Saul had no child unto the day of her death -2 Samuel 6:23
vs
But the king took the two sons of Ripzah...and the five sons of Michal the daughter of Saul -2 Samuel 21:8
5. Is god omnipotent?
But with god all things are possible -Matthew 19:26
vs
And the lord was with Judah, and he drove out the inhabitants of the mountain; but could not drive out the inhabitants of the valley, because they had chariots of iron -Judges 1:19
6. Who was Joseph's father?
And Jacob begat Joseph, who was the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus -Matt 1:16
vs
And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age, being the son of Joseph, which was the son of Heli -Luke 3:23
7. Keep the sabbath?
Remember the sabbath day to keep it holy -Exodus 20:8
vs
Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of a hold day, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath -Colossians 2:16
8. Ur was not a Chaldean city until 1000 years after Abraham -Genesis 11:28, 15:7
9. Kings are referred to in Deut 17:17-19 before Israel had kings
10. There is no mountain from which one can see all the kingdoms of the world -Matt 4:8, Luke 4:5
11. Jesus was born in the reign of Herod ( who died 4BC.) -Matt 2:1
vs
Jesus was bprn during Quirinus' governorship of Syria (which began 6AD) -Luke 2:2
12. The Earth is flat -Ps 93:1, Jer 10:13, Dan 4:10-11, Zech 9:10, Matt 4:8, Rev 1:7
13. Every beast shall fear man (like lions, hippos, sharks) Genesis 9:2
14. Thunder is god's voice -Psalm 78:18
15. How long did Jehoash reign?
40 years -2 Kings 12:1
vs
16 years -2 Kings 13:10
16.Where was Jesus born?
House -Matt 2:1-2, 11
vs
Manger -Luke 2:1-7\
17. Creation
Humans are created after animals -Genesis 1:25-27
vs
Humans created before amimals -Genesis 2:18-19
18. Is it good to get married?
yes -Genesis 2:18-24, Matt 19:5, Prov 18:22, Heb 13:4
vs
no - Corinthians 7:1, 7:7, Luke 20:34-35, Matt 19:10-12
19. How many sons does god have?
1 -John 3:18
vs
many - Luke 3:38, Genesis 6:2-4, Jer 31:9, Job 1:6
20. Is incest forbidden?
yes -Lev 18:9, 18:12, 20:17, 20:19, Deut 27:22
vs
no -Genesis 20:12, 2 Peter 2:7-8, Exodus 6:20
21. Does god know and see everything?
God knoweth all things - 1 John 3:20
vs
god couldn't find Adam and Eve -Genesis 3:8-9
& Cain hid from god in the land of Nod -Gen 4:14-16
& god didn't know Jacobs name -Gen 32:27-30

Oooh oooh! I've got this one - The Argument from Embarrassment!

You see, all those contradictions PROVE the bible is true and accurate because why would scholars and scribes have written and re-written such things? Wouldn't they have corrected such obvious inconsistencies?

Nope - see, they KNEW that those errors were not really errors, so they copied them word for word. Nobody would do that - nobody would suffer such embarrassment - if they weren't confident that the original errors weren't actually not errors.




Yes, I have actually been told that before...

 

[He has Risen!]

From F.F. Bruce,
The late Sir Frederic Kenyon, a scholar whose authority to make
pronouncements on ancient MSS was second to none:

'The interval then between the data of original composition and the earliest extant evidence become so small to be in fact negligible, and the last foundation for any doubt that the Scripture have come down to us substantially as they were written has now been removed. Both the authenticity and the general integrity of the books of the New Testament may be regarded as finally established.'

From N.T. Wright,
Fred Bruce (F.F. Bruce) was a legend in his own lifetime...those who had studied with him spoke of him with awe and affection in equal measure. He began his his life as a classicist. He built on this foundation an extraordinary range of scholarly expertise about Judaism and Christianity, not only - though this was his primary field - the New Testament and the world that surrounded it, but all kinds of subjects.

As F.F. Bruce stated in his book,
"The New Testament Documents Are They Reliable?"...
The earliest propagators of Christianity welcomed the fullest examination of the credentials of their message. The events which they proclaimed were, as Paul said to King Agrippa, not done in a corner, and were well able to bear all the light that could be thrown on them. The spirit of these early Christians ought to animate their modern descendants. For by an acquaintance with the relevant evidence they will not only be able to give to everyone who asks them a reason for the hope that is in them, but they themselves, like Theophilus, will thus know more accurately how secure is the basis of the faith which they have been taught.

I am just re-posting this with some new information to help some people here to better understand what we mean when we talk about the historical reliability of the New Testament manuscripts...
Author:

Mathew
Date written: Gospel A.D.50-70
Early Identification: Irenaeus A.D.180

Mark
Date written: Gospel A.D.50-60
Early Identification: Papias A.D.140, Irenaeus A.D.180

Luke
Date written: Gospel A.D.60-80, Acts A.D.63-70
Early Identification: Irenaeus A.D.180, Muratorian Cannon A.D.170

John
Date written: Gospel A.D.50-85,1John A.D.70-100, 2John A.D.85-95, 3John A.D.85-95, Revelation A.D.69-95

Early Identification: Irenaeus A.D.180, Clement of Alexandria A.D.150-215, Tertullian A.D.155-222, Origen A.D.185-253, Muratorian Cannon A.D.170

Paul
Date written: Romans 57 A.D., 1Corinthians A.D.55, 2Corinthians A.D.55, Galatians A.D.48- 53, Ephesians A.D.60, Philippians A.D.61, Colossians A.D.60, 1Thessalonians A.D.51, 2Thessalonians A.D.51-52, 1Timothy A.D.64, 2Timothy A.D.66-67, Titus A.D.63-65, Philemon A.D.60

Early Identification: Clement of Rome A.D.96, Muratorian Cannon A.D.170

James
Date written: James A.D.50

Peter
Date written: 1Peter A.D.60-64, 2Peter A.D.65-68

Early Identification: Irenaeus A.D.180, Clement of Alexandria A.D.150-215, Tertullian A.D.155-222, Origen A.D.185-253, Eusebius A.D.265-340

Jude
Date written: Jude A.D.65-80

Early Identification: Clement of Rome A.D.96, Clement of Alexandria A.D.150-215, Tertullian A.D.155-222, Origen A.D.185-253, Eusebius A.D.265-340, Athanasius A.D.298-373, Muratorian Cannon A.D.170

Hebrews
Date written: Hebrews A.D.67-70
Early Identification: Tertullian A.D.155-222




(PS I will be adding more information to this and repost it again with additions as I have the time, thank you for your patience in this regards)
Book Sources:
Ante-Nicene Fathers Vol.1, Nicene and Post Nicene Fathers Vol.1, The Teachings of the Church Fathers (chap.6) by John Willis (this book is a great resource), The Canon of Scripture by F.F. Bruce, The New Testament Documents Are They Reliable by F.F. Bruce, Zondervan NIV Study Bible

Internet Sources for your convenience:
Intro to Luke
The Muratorian Fragment
Sinai Palimpsests Processed Images
ResearchGuides: Biblical Manuscripts: Greek NT Manuscripts
Manuscripts - CSNTM
Manuscript P52 - CSNTM

 

[tas8831]

From F.F. Bruce,
The late Sir Frederic Kenyon, a scholar whose authority to make
pronouncements on ancient MSS was second to none:

'The interval then between the data of original composition and the earliest extant evidence become so small to be in fact negligible, and the last foundation for any doubt that the Scripture have come down to us substantially as they were written has now been removed. Both the authenticity and the general integrity of the books of the New Testament may be regarded as finally established.'

Never heard of him. Sounds fake.

No contemporary authors. Interesting.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

What about quantum theory

Quantum theory is what makes the device work that you are currently using to read and post here.
It's pretty accurate and it makes predictions which can be confirmed to an absurd amount of decimal places.

, the 5th dimension

The what, now?

and the TOE (Theory Of Everything).

It's the holy grail of physics that physicists around the world are trying to develop. It's why they build things like the LHC. There is no such theory as of yet.

God is the TOE

No, god is just a claim.
A theory makes testable predictions and is actually explanatory.
"god-dun-it" explains exactly nothing and is no more or less then intellectual lazyness.

Who is beyond our dimension (transcendent) and controls all His sub atomic particles.

If he is "beyond our dimension", then how could you possibly know anything about it?
Do you have an "interdimensional" device that allows you to poke what goes on there, if there even is such a thing?

Off course you don't. All you have, is religious belief. No more, no less.

Not the same as just "God Did It fallacy"

Except that it is exactly that.

, because He is logically the best explanation to what we can know about everything in our universe.

It never has been and it still isn't.
It explains nothing.
It's not testable.
It's not verifiable.
It's not falsifiable.

It's just a statement of faith, used to plug holes in scientific knowledge.
The holes used to be a lot bigger. Just about any natural phenomenon was once attributed to a or more gods. Everything from fire to sunrise, thunder, lightning, the tides,...

Such a God, is an ever receeding pocket of scientific ignorance.

No amount of sound logic leads to unfalsifiable, untestable and unverifiable entities that are indistinguishable from things you invent out of thin air in your imagination.

To suggest such entities, is the very opposite of being logical...................

 

[tas8831]

, the 5th dimension

The what, now?

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Atheism is, in the broadest sense, the absence of belief in the existence of deities

Which is what we have been telling you all this time.
Why do you continue to dwell on it and seem desperate to add to it?

This is how every atheist I have ever met, defines his atheism.
This is also how dictionaries define it.

Why do you keep discussing this point?

 

[He has Risen!]

Oooh oooh! I've got this one - The Argument from Embarrassment!

You see, all those contradictions PROVE the bible is true and accurate because why would scholars and scribes have written and re-written such things? Wouldn't they have corrected such obvious inconsistencies?

Nope - see, they KNEW that those errors were not really errors, so they copied them word for word. Nobody would do that - nobody would suffer such embarrassment - if they weren't confident that the original errors weren't actually not errors.




Yes, I have actually been told that before...

If I respond will you believe an explanation that is both coherent and reasonable? Because those questions have been answered in a book by Gleason L. Archer Jr....
New International Encyclopedia of Bible Difficulties Hardcover – August 5, 2001

https://www.amazon.com/New-Internat...son+archer+encyclopedia+of+bible+difficulties

 

[Subduction Zone]

If I respond will you believe an explanation that is both coherent and reasonable? Because those questions have been answered in a book by Gleason L. Archer Jr....
New International Encyclopedia of Bible Difficulties Hardcover – August 5, 2001

https://www.amazon.com/New-Internat...son+archer+encyclopedia+of+bible+difficulties

More likely he has simply lied for the Bible. For example how does he deal with the failed Tyre prophecy?

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

If I respond will you believe an explanation that is both coherent and reasonable?

Why does this sound as if you'ld like Tas to commit to the explanation being "both coherent and reasonable" before you have given it?

 

[Rapture Era]

I made the comment preach brother preach so I went back & read the rules. As far as preaching & proselytizing- do you understand atheism isn’t a religion?

I understand perfectly, religion is defined as “any specific system of belief, worship, or conduct that prescribes certain responses to the existence (or non-existence) and character of God.” Atheism is a religion.

Atheists have nothing to proselytize about

Is that a fact? How about the prescribing of certain responses to persuade theists that " SCIENCE" circumvents the Word of God in creation and to encourage them to see the "truth" that Christians are uneducated in the sciences and that they are fools for believing in a different and more sensible, reasonable and logical view of the world around us?

Atheists have nothing to proselytize about. We have no dogma, no tennents, no church, no pope, no requirements for “membership” other than the rejection of the belief that gods exist.

I cant believe you said this!

Your religion is only Science, your dogma which is a principle or set of principles laid down by your authority (science) as unquestionably true. Your tenet,
a principle or belief, especially one of the main principles of your religion of Atheism and your philosophy of evolution is quite hypocritical when you openly state you posses none of these things!

 

[tas8831]

If I respond will you believe an explanation that is both coherent and reasonable?

No, I don't accept apologetics much, seems an act of desperation.

And I was just repeating what I have been told by creationists/self-proclaimed bible experts. I don't really buy it.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I understand perfectly, religion is defined as “any specific system of belief, worship, or conduct that prescribes certain responses to the existence (or non-existence) and character of God.” Atheism is a religion.

Is that a fact? How about the prescribing of certain responses to persuade theists that " SCIENCE" circumvents the Word of God in creation and to encourage them to see the "truth" that Christians are uneducated in the sciences and that they are fools for believing in a different and more sensible, reasonable and logical view of the world around us?

I cant believe you said this!

Your religion is only Science, your dogma which is a principle or set of principles laid down by your authority (science) as unquestionably true. Your tenet,
a principle or belief, especially one of the main principles of your religion of Atheism and your philosophy of evolution is quite hypocritical when you openly state you posses none of these things!

Now you do not know what a dogma is either.

 

[JChnsc19]

Thank you very much for this list of books. I will retrieve them from my local library and read them. I am glad to see that you recommended Bart Ehrman even though he is no friend to the Christian faith, he will defend the NT in ways you may not realize. I hope that you will look at a debate he has done with noted NT scholar Daniel B. Wallace, the second link Dr. Wallace is answering the question "How Badly Has the Bible Been Corrupted?" I enjoyed these videos when they first came out and got a real education in the reliability of the NT...

Thanks! I don’t know that I have seen that debate but I will listen to it in the next day or so. I listen to theist & non theist lectures, I’m open to new arguments/ evidence of whatever religion.

 

[JChnsc19]

You dealt a Gish, man!

Was this to overwhelm me?

I'll just answer the easiest one:



These are two different people. One was King of Judah, the other was a king of Israel. (The context makes that clear, if you'd have read it.)

So, if one is flawed, your entire list may be, too?

Indeed, the others require more detailed answers, but they are there.

There are very few real flaws in the Scriptures, mostly scribal errors regarding numbers. But nothing to altar the Bible's internal harmony.

#'s 16 & 17 are pretty easy, also.

I don’t care about the errors. Someone made a comment to the effect “you provided no inconsistencies within the Bible only criticisms by scholars”. That’s why I made the list

 

[Hockeycowboy]

I don’t care about the errors. Someone made a comment to the effect “you provided no inconsistencies within the Bible only criticisms by scholars”. That’s why I made the list

Yes, I know. You don't care that your list has errors based on misunderstandings of texts?

 

[JChnsc19]

Yes, I know. You don't care that your list has errors based on misunderstandings of texts?

No. You don’t care that your holy book has errors, why should I care about that list?

 

[JChnsc19]

I understand perfectly, religion is defined as “any specific system of belief, worship, or conduct that prescribes certain responses to the existence (or non-existence) and character of God.” Atheism is a religion.

Is that a fact? How about the prescribing of certain responses to persuade theists that " SCIENCE" circumvents the Word of God in creation and to encourage them to see the "truth" that Christians are uneducated in the sciences and that they are fools for believing in a different and more sensible, reasonable and logical view of the world around us?

I cant believe you said this!

Your religion is only Science, your dogma which is a principle or set of principles laid down by your authority (science) as unquestionably true. Your tenet,
a principle or belief, especially one of the main principles of your religion of Atheism and your philosophy of evolution is quite hypocritical when you openly state you posses none of these things!

The atheists who believe in Bigfoot & ghosts aren’t using science. & ok, I’m wrong all the time so educate me:
1. What atheist organizations, clubs, non existent churches get tax exemption like churches?
2. Aren’t you an atheist towards all other religions but the one you accept? Where do you go to “practice” your atheism towards those other religions? Who gives you the dogma? The tennents?

 

[Hockeycowboy]

No. You don’t care that your holy book has errors, why should I care about that list?

How come Isaac Newton never discovered these contradictions?
I mean, he ' studied the Bible daily.'
You must think Isaac Newton was an idiot.

(He did find many discrepancies between church teachings and Scripture.)

 

[Subduction Zone]

How come Isaac Newton never discovered these contradictions?
I mean, he ' studied the Bible daily.'
You must think Isaac Newton was an idiot.

(He did find many discrepancies between church teachings and Scripture.)

The Bible is rather vague at times and open to multiple interpretations. That is why there are thousands of sects. Assuming that any one is more correct than the other is rather presumptuous. I always find it interesting to see how a sect deals with the errors in the Bible. The more cult-like the more they tend to deny the obvious errors in the Bible.

 

[JChnsc19]

How come Isaac Newton never discovered these contradictions?
I mean, he ' studied the Bible daily.'
You must think Isaac Newton was an idiot.

(He did find many discrepancies between church teachings and Scripture.)

I’ve never looked into that but thanks, that’s interesting. I’d guess I’d say Christian fundamentalists say there are no errors, why don’t they find them? I don’t know that answer either