Baha'is and a new form of discrimination?

[spirit_of_dawn]

I read/interpret this verse totally different.

This verse just says "The first duty prescribed by God for His servants". I see no problem in this verse IF you are not a servant of God

Spiritual life is a personal journey. Problems start when people make their personal choice into a dogma for others. Humans do this, not GOD

Everyone is a servant of God whether they like it or not, however practicing servitude is another topic.

Again I read these words so very different than you do. But I must say, my goal is to see "unity in diversity". So I look for the good in others

This answer clearly instructs NOT to proselytize Bahai faith to Israelis. Wonderful. Not even stimulating further interest. Even better; feels like perfectly respectful towards Israelis. They already have a religion. Proselytzing would be bagatellizing and belittling their faith and is "not done".

So these words are exactly the opposite of what you read into them. These words are exactly what I believe Bahaullah original was teaching. I am not a Bahai, but my feeling of Bahaullah is that He does not want people to proselytize. Meaning "Respect other's their belief".

If Israelis hadn't been singled out for this issue I would have accepted what you say. Most of the ex-Baha'is here have stated that they were more or else either involved in Baha'i missionary practices for non-Israelis or were familiar with this practice. I see no : "Respect other's their belief" here.

 

[spirit_of_dawn]

The thing about religion is, everyone "gets" it at their own level, according to their capacity. For me, the first paragraph of the Aqdas that you have quoted here is about the religious value of "works" (the ones the Aqdas goes on to prescribe, such as prayer, fasting, pilgrimmage, inheritance, marriage, divorce, tithes (huququllah) and so forth). It says that "good works" (such as these) do not have religious merit unless they are based on "recognition" (`erfaan). `Erfaan is the consciousness born of a mystic encounter with the divine, it is sometimes translated as gnostic knowing.

The context is that Bahais from Islamic backgrounds have been pestering Baha'u'llah for some years for a book of laws they can follow, to replace the Islamic Shariah code and the Bab's Bayanic law. Eventually Baha'u'llah agrees, and compiles and composes the Aqdas (some of its contents already existed in other works), but he begins by saying (my paraphrase) you can pray and fast all you like, but if you don't have `erfaan in your heart it's not worth a bean, as a way of pleasing the Beloved.

Christianity has the same concept, in the form of the much-disputed relationship between faith and works. The Bahai approach is like the Catholic one: first faith, then good works. In Islam this is the doctrine of intention/neyyat, which says that each good work (prayer, but also charity) has religious value only if it is preceded by the correct intention. One has to form the intention, I am going to pray the salat as Muhammad and Islam has taught me, and then begin the prayer, in order to have obeyed the law of praying. (the salat is the 5-times per day obligatory prayer).

Naturally you can understand that first paragraph in other ways, as you wish. My reading is shaped by reading the Arabic, and knowing the Islamic context of the terms Baha'u'llah uses there.

I fail to see how your explanation negates what I said:

"It's clear that you have to first recognize Baha'u'llah, then do whatever he says. And these two duties are not separable or else you are considered astray even if you perform every righteous deed."

 

[loverofhumanity]

According to the first verse of the Most Holy Baha'i book, if you do not Believe in Baha'u'llah and do not follow his orders you are astray even if you perform every righteous of deed:

"The first duty prescribed by God for His servants is the recognition of Him Who is the Dayspring of His Revelation and the Fountain of His laws, Who representeth the Godhead in both the Kingdom of His Cause and the world of creation. Whoso achieveth this duty hath attained unto all good; and whoso is deprived thereof hath gone astray, though he be the author of every righteous deed." (Baha'u'llah, The Kitab-i Aqdas, verse 1)​

So basically you are never considered a guided person unless you become a Baha'i. However the citizens of Israel how no right to become Baha'is unless they get out of the country and never return back:

"The Universal House of Justice has received your email message dated 29 June 1995 and we have been asked to respond.

You have asked how the policy of not teaching Israelis applies in the situation in which you have contact with an Israeli via an "interactive relay chat" (IRC) connection. The House of Justice has not asked the friends to avoid contact with Israelis. When you discover that a person you are in contact with via IRC is an Israeli, you should feel free to maintain friendly contact, but you should not teach the Faith to him. If he has already developed a personal interest in the Faith and seeks more information, you should refer him to the Offices of the Bahá'í World Centre in Haifa.

For your information, the people in Israel have access to factual information about the Faith, its history and general principles. Books concerning the Faith are available in libraries throughout Israel, and Israelis are welcome to visit the Shrines and the surrounding gardens. However, in keeping with a policy that has been strictly followed since the days of Bahá'u'lláh, Bahá'ís do not teach the Faith in Israel. Likewise, the Faith is not taught to Israelis abroad if they intend to return to Israel. When Israelis ask about the Faith, their questions are answered, but this is done in a manner which provides factual information without stimulating further interest.​

1. 
   With loving Bahá'í greetings,
   Department of the Secretaria" (Israel, Teaching the Faith in)

So basically, Baha'u'llah and Baha'is seem to be discriminating against Israelis in the most important of all matters (eternal salvation and guidance) and an Israeli can never be guided and is always astray as long as he refuses to leave Israel and convert to Baha'ism, vowing never ever to return to his homeland for permanent residence.

If you discriminate based on sex it is called sexism and if based on race it is called racism. I would like to introduce a new concept here called geographism, where discrimination occurs based on the geographical location that you live in. So am I wrong to assume Baha'is are geographists based on the above reasoning?

With the problems in that area and all the conflict that already exists there would it be the right time to be introducing another religion there? The time will surely come when Israelis will be able to join but the situation is so volatile there another religion springing up could just cause more problems.

As to the first passage it’s pretty clear that God expects us all to be humble and accept His Prophets and Messengers and follow Their laws but we are not forced to do so. We are free to turn away and go astray if we like but that’s God’s call to make and He’s said it clearly that we’re making a mistake by not accepting and obeying the Prophets and Messengers and I think the state of our world reflects that we have made a huge mistake.

Where is world peace? Where is world unity? Where is equality and justice? Drug addiction, terrorism, domestic violence, rape, child sexual abuse,. We’ve already had 2 world wars. Yet we still refuse to try God’s way and prejudge it as doomed to failure without even giving it a chance.

So God leaves us alone and respects our wish to make our own bed as we are the ones who have to sleep in it. There’s another way, a better way but we’re just too proud to even look at it. So sad.

 

[spirit_of_dawn]

With the problems in that area and all the conflict that already exists there would it be the right time to be introducing another religion there? The time will surely come when Israelis will be able to join but the situation is so volatile there another religion springing up could just cause more problems.

Very dishonest answer when one considers the situation in Iran and Baha'i attitude there.

As to the first passage it’s pretty clear that God expects us all to be humble and accept His Prophets and Messengers and follow Their laws but we are not forced to do so. We are free to turn away and go astray if we like but that’s God’s call to make and He’s said it clearly that we’re making a mistake by not accepting and obeying the Prophets and Messengers and I think the state of our world reflects that we have made a huge mistake.

Yes, yet Israelis have no choice but to go stray.

Where is world peace? Where is world unity? Where is equality and justice? Drug addiction, terrorism, domestic violence, rape, child sexual abuse,. We’ve already had 2 world wars. Yet we still refuse to try God’s way and prejudge it as doomed to failure without even giving it a chance.

When a Baha'i asks those question then one becomes certain Baha'im is a false religion. If Baha'u'llah is who he claims he is, then according to the Prophecies of past religions he should have appeared with the purpose of establishing peace and unity and justice once and for all by his own hand while he was still alive.

 

[stvdv]

Everyone is a servant of God whether they like it or not, however practicing servitude is another topic.

I do not believe in a "judgmental God". I believe in a God "Loving unconditional". From that viewpoint there is no problem practicing servitude or not

If Israelis hadn't been singled out for this issue I would have accepted what you say. Most of the ex-Baha'is here have stated that they were more or else either involved in Baha'i missionary practices for non-Israelis or were familiar with this practice. I see no : "Respect other's their belief" here.

I spend 10 years in India in an ashram with my Master. Often Masters give instructions like this. People read more into them then was meant.

Example that perfectly illustrates how people easily interpret things wrong. Major lesson = Don't stick your nose into the business of others:
My Master called in a lady for interview and told her to stand at the ashram gate and only allow white people to get into the ashram. Afterwards He called in another lady and told her to stand at the ashram gate and only allow black people to get into the ashram. When both ladies were at their duty at the gate, they started fighting. Next day my Master called them in for interview and asked if all was well. Then they started fighting and yelling even then and there. Finally my Master remarked "IF both had just done what I had asked all people would have been able to enter the gate".

This is the main problem many religious people have. Instead of sticking to practicing the teachings themselves they start preaching it to others.

I went in Holland quite a few times to Bahai meetings. I was hoping they were different. They were not. Whenever you believe your belief is better than the belief of others arrogance has walked in. Not normal arrogance but spiritual arrogance. Indian scriptures warn for this. Ego is hard to overcome. Spiritual ego is almost impossible to overcome. That is very obvious of course, knowing arrogant people know best already.

Here on RF I met some Bahai's who agreed that this spiritual arrogance is not what Bahaullah was teaching.

 

[Vinayaka]

I went in Holland quite a few times to Bahai meetings. I was hoping they were different. They were not. Whenever you believe your belief is better than the belief of others arrogance has walked in. Not normal arrogance but spiritual arrogance. Indian scriptures warn for this. Ego is hard to overcome. Spiritual ego is almost impossible to overcome. That is very obvious of course, knowing arrogant people know best already.

Here on RF I met some Bahai's who agreed that this spiritual arrogance is not what Bahaullah was teaching.

I try to go to satsangs with a mantra/affirmation in the back of my mind ... "Keep your mouth shut, keep your mouth shut," Sometimes it works, sometimes if doesn't. When it doesn't, I'm reminded of Twain's famous quote ... Better to say nothing and let people think you're a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt. " Our (Hindu) teachings are more in vibrations than in words. Most certainly not in condescending words.

 

[Shad]

Yeah, no kidding. The people holding the guns usually get the better end of every deal.

In politics sure. However this goes beyond merely politics as the logic works for individuals and crime.

Strictly speaking, that's a matter of subjective opinion.

Not with the majority of law. Politics sure.

If the sacrifice is, as it is, specifically merely a matter of not proselytizing in a country we actively avoid anyway in order to keep the word, why not??

Again duress laws.

I don't really care about proselytizing in Israel. I don't think proselyzation is even that effective of a means at gaining followers. I am basically sacrificing nothing by not doing so. I don't see how anything valuable is given up to maintain honesty here.

A method of education for one thing. Perception as well if you consider what I have said already.

Pretty big difference between agreeing to a rape and an agreeing to not knock on doors in a specific area, wouldn't you agree??

I was attacking honoring a contract made under duress which can and does happen in rape cases. The principle which overrides the duress clause is a problem and applicable to rape.

Do you proselytize in Israel??

Nope

Is that why you think we got a bad deal, because you place large value the ability to proselytize your own beliefs in this geographical region??

No it is a bad deal as it was made under duress, the contract is eternal and made with a monarch.

If not, you seem to have a strange vested interest in why we gave up a right you likewise see no value in.

I saw a thread and commented.

And if you do proselytize in Israel, certainly you are benefited from our absence.

Sure if I did.

 

[spirit_of_dawn]

Here on RF I met some Bahai's who agreed that this spiritual arrogance is not what Bahaullah was teaching.

Count the number of insults heaped unto non-Baha'is in the following statement and then ask yourself, if "this spiritual arrogance" isn't a Baha'i teaching:

"O friends! Black clouds have shrouded all this earth, and the darkness of hatred and malice, of cruelty and aggression and defilement is spreading far and wide. The people, one and all, live out their lives in a heedless stupor and the chief virtues of man are held to be his rapacity and his thirst for blood. Out of all the mass of humankind God hath chosen the friends, and He hath favoured them with His guidance and boundless grace. His purpose is this, that we, all of us, should strive with our whole hearts to offer ourselves up, guide others to His path, and train the souls of men—until these frenzied beasts change to gazelles in the meadows of oneness, and these wolves to lambs of God, and these brutish creatures to angelic hosts; till the fires of hatred are quenched, and the flame coming out of the sheltered vale of the Holy Shrine doth shed its splendours; till the foul odour of the tyrant’s dunghill is blown away, and yieldeth to the pure, sweet scents that stream from the rosebeds of faith and trust. On that day will the weak of intellect draw on the bounty of the divine, Universal Mind, and they whose life is but abomination will seek out these cleansing, holy breaths." (Selections From the Writings of ‘Abdu’l-Bahá, p. 272)​

 

[loverofhumanity]

Very dishonest answer when one considers the situation in Iran and Baha'i attitude there.


Yes, yet Israelis have no choice but to go stray.



When a Baha'i asks those question then one becomes certain Baha'im is a false religion. If Baha'u'llah is who he claims he is, then according to the Prophecies of past religions he should have appeared with the purpose of establishing peace and unity and justice once and for all by his own hand while he was still alive.

Baha’u’llah has established a worldwide community of people who come from every walk of life, even conflicting nations, races and religions and empowered them to work for the betterment of humanity.

So to you a religion which teaches to love all humanity and befriend all religions is false? A religion which teaches us not to regard one another as strangers but to see the entire human race as one family is discriminating?

Yes we do discriminate against all forms of prejudice of race, nationality and religion. Baha’u’llah teaches we are the fruits of one tree and the leaves of one branch. So if that and those teachings to you represent falsehood and discrimination then that’s very sad.

Then believe it is false if that pleases you but to me any religion which teaches such noble truths is the apple of my eye.

 

[Firemorphic]

Baha’u’llah has established a worldwide community of people who come from every walk of life, even conflicting nations, races and religions and empowered them to work for the betterment of humanity.

So to you a religion which teaches to love all humanity and befriend all religions is false? A religion which teaches us not to regard one another as strangers but to see the entire human race as one family is discriminating?

Lol, non sequitur

 

[loverofhumanity]

Lol, non sequitur

It’s very relevant. To just say a religion is false without mentioning what it stands for is prejudice.

If people want to criticize our Faith then by all means do so but please let’s not hide our foundation belief which is the oneness of all humankind, to love all humanity. Tell us what is false about a religion teaching to love and serve all humanity.

Are we wrong to befriend the Muslim, Hindu, Jew and Christian with love and fellowship? Are we wrong to read from the Quran and holy books of other faiths in our Houses of Worship?

Before I was a Baha’i I knew nothing of Muhammad or the Quran. Now I accept Him as a Prophet of God and the Quran as the Word of God. Is it a false religion which teaches me to accept Muhammad and the Quran and all Muslims and people as my brothers?

Just try and reflect a bit about it. If my religion was teaching falsehood it wouldn’t be telling me to accept God and His Prophets. It would instead be telling me to hate on and condemn others who don’t believe as I do.

 

[Firemorphic]

..........but please let’s not hide our foundation belief which is the oneness of all humankind, to love all humanity. Tell us what is false about a religion teaching to love and serve all humanity.

Are we wrong to befriend the Muslim, Hindu, Jew and Christian with love and fellowship?

I don't think these have ever been the things that have been a concern to anyone, nor are they at the center of actual debates on the subject of your religion.

 

[loverofhumanity]

I don't think these have ever been the things that have been a concern to anyone, nor are they at the center of actual debates on the subject of your religion.

Maybe so but these things are what we are all about. So in labeling us as false they bypass conveniently what we are all about? Very strange.

 

[loverofhumanity]

L of H, you haven't noticed that Baha'i label all other religions as false? You state that they contain some truth, but then explain how that truth has been distorted over time. Isn't 'distorted truth' the same as falsehood? To me it is.

To me truth is always truth eternally forever and never withers or dies. So all the truths that all the religions teach are always true to me.

The spiritual virtues and attributes such as love , honesty, truthfulness, patience, tolerance and so on are never distorted in my view but what happens is they fade away sometimes due to time and society loses its spirituality. Then another Manifestation arises to renew the spiritual truths and once again encourage us to become spiritual again for our own well being and happiness.

But the social laws and traditions are temporary and depend upon the people and needs of the time. For instance in the desert where there were no courts or police or judges or corrective facilities harsh laws had to be created as a deterrent and to protect the people from rapists and murderers etc

Also society had not developed technologies at that time to be able to use a teaching such as world cooperation or world unity which we are in need of today because all the different races, religions and nations are so interconnected. So Baha’u’llah brought teachings such as a world language and recognition of our oneness so we can learn to look beyond our differences and see us as all part of one human family and live in peace.

So my humble understanding is that the spiritual truths are never distorted over time. They fade away. In time virtues become replaced with vices and materialism,so religion needs to be renewed from time to time. However the social laws like stoning etc change as times change.

No religions are false just relative as we are to the time they and we appear. Our religion is just another step along the way not the be and end all of religion. One day we will have to pass the baton onto a new Prophet with a new message for another time.

I never see a Baha’i teaching as superior to a Buddhist or Hindu or Christian teaching just beautiful in a different way. I love reading and meditating on the truths of all Faiths and whatever good things and examples people set as we are here to learn and grow and we never know everything.

There is no superior religion not Baha’i or any other religion. We are just normal people not special chosen ones or ‘saved’ but just your equal.(hopefully) And we have so much to learn from you and others so how can we dare say other religions are anything but truth?

Nice to converse with you again.

 

[spirit_of_dawn]

So to you a religion which teaches to love all humanity and befriend all religions is false? A religion which teaches us not to regard one another as strangers but to see the entire human race as one family is discriminating?

Yes we do discriminate against all forms of prejudice of race, nationality and religion. Baha’u’llah teaches we are the fruits of one tree and the leaves of one branch. So if that and those teachings to you represent falsehood and discrimination then that’s very sad.

It's not what Baha'is or Baha'i leaders claim about their religion that one must accept, rather it is their scripture and history that one must analyze to see if those claims hold water or are merely a tactic to gain more converts.
I have lost count of the number of quotes and events in Baha'i scripture and history that totally contradict what you claim. As an example Baha'is couldn't even tolerate the dead body of Baha'u'llah's own son because he refused to go against Baha'u'llah's will. They then dug him out of his grave on the basis that he was a contaminant and triumphantly announced that they had purified their holy lands in a telegraph message:

“ANNOUNCE BAHA'I WORLD REMOVAL FROM IMMEDIATE PRECINCTS HOLYSHRINE BAHA'U'LLAH REMAINS MIRZA DIYA'U'LLAH YOUNGER BROTHER MIRZA MUHAMMAD ALI HIS ACCOMPLICE IN EFFORTS SUBVERT FOUNDATIONS COVENANT GOD SOON AFTER ASCENSION BAHA'U'LLAH. THIS FINAL STEP IN PROCESS PURIFICATION SACRED INTERNATIONAL ENDOWMENTS FAITH IN BAHJI FROM PAST CONTAMINATION WAS PROVIDENTIALLY UNDERTAKEN UPON REQUEST FAMILY OLD COVENANT BREAKERS A PROCESS WHOSE INITIAL STAGE WAS FULFILLED BY ABDU'L-BAHA WHICH GATHERED MOMENTUM EARLY YEARS BELOVED GUARDIAN'S MINISTRY THROUGH EVACUATION MANSION ATTAINED CLIMAX THROUGH PURIFICATION HARAM-I-AQDAS AND NOW CONSUMMATED THROUGH CLEANSING INNER SANCTUARY MOST HALLOWED SHRINE QIBLIH Bahá'í WORLD PRESAGING EVENTUAL CONSTRUCTION BEFITTING MAUSOLEUM AS ANTICIPATED BELOVED SIGN GOD ON EARTH.” Messages from the Universal House of Justice 1963-86
​

When I read the aforementioned quote I simply refuse to believe your claims that Baha'i:

• "teaches to love all humanity and befriend all religions"
• "teaches us not to regard one another as strangers but to see the entire human race as one family"
• "discriminate against all forms of prejudice of race, nationality and religion"
• "teaches we are the fruits of one tree and the leaves of one branch"

 

[loverofhumanity]

It's not what Baha'is or Baha'i leaders claim about their religion that one must accept, rather it is their scripture and history that one must analyze to see if those claims hold water or are merely a tactic to gain more converts.
I have lost count of the number of quotes and events in Baha'i scripture and history that totally contradict what you claim. As an example Baha'is couldn't even tolerate the dead body of Baha'u'llah's own son because he refused to go against Baha'u'llah's will. They then dug him out of his grave on the basis that he was a contaminant and triumphantly announced that they had purified their holy lands in a telegraph message:

“ANNOUNCE BAHA'I WORLD REMOVAL FROM IMMEDIATE PRECINCTS HOLYSHRINE BAHA'U'LLAH REMAINS MIRZA DIYA'U'LLAH YOUNGER BROTHER MIRZA MUHAMMAD ALI HIS ACCOMPLICE IN EFFORTS SUBVERT FOUNDATIONS COVENANT GOD SOON AFTER ASCENSION BAHA'U'LLAH. THIS FINAL STEP IN PROCESS PURIFICATION SACRED INTERNATIONAL ENDOWMENTS FAITH IN BAHJI FROM PAST CONTAMINATION WAS PROVIDENTIALLY UNDERTAKEN UPON REQUEST FAMILY OLD COVENANT BREAKERS A PROCESS WHOSE INITIAL STAGE WAS FULFILLED BY ABDU'L-BAHA WHICH GATHERED MOMENTUM EARLY YEARS BELOVED GUARDIAN'S MINISTRY THROUGH EVACUATION MANSION ATTAINED CLIMAX THROUGH PURIFICATION HARAM-I-AQDAS AND NOW CONSUMMATED THROUGH CLEANSING INNER SANCTUARY MOST HALLOWED SHRINE QIBLIH Bahá'í WORLD PRESAGING EVENTUAL CONSTRUCTION BEFITTING MAUSOLEUM AS ANTICIPATED BELOVED SIGN GOD ON EARTH.” Messages from the Universal House of Justice 1963-86
​

When I read the aforementioned quote I simply refuse to believe your claims that Baha'i:

• "teaches to love all humanity and befriend all religions"
• "teaches us not to regard one another as strangers but to see the entire human race as one family"
• "discriminate against all forms of prejudice of race, nationality and religion"
• "teaches we are the fruits of one tree and the leaves of one branch"

Doesn’t it say that this was undertaken upon request of the family? That the family requested it. Or the family of old covenant breakers requested it?

It seems that the Universal House of Justice only took action once the family requested it and did not initiate the action themselves until requested by the family.

It has nothing to do with the teachings on love and unity. Covenant breakers are very rare but they are criminals and did resort to attempted murder of a Baha’u’llah and poisoned Him. They are not accorded any respect because of this but no action to remove his remains was taken without a request from others who were close to him.

 

[Marcion]

I never see a Baha’i teaching as superior to a Buddhist or Hindu or Christian teaching just beautiful in a different way. I love reading and meditating on the truths of all Faiths and whatever good things and examples people set as we are here to learn and grow and we never know everything.

There is no superior religion not Baha’i or any other religion. We are just normal people not special chosen ones or ‘saved’ but just your equal.(hopefully) And we have so much to learn from you and others so how can we dare say other religions are anything but truth.

If another path or religion is not "superior" in knowledge, then what is it exactly that you want to learn from them?
Let me ask it in another way, do you think there is anything lacking in the Bahai faith that other paths or religions can supply you with?

And if there is nothing lacking in the Bahai faith, why do you need to learn anything from other faiths?

 

[spirit_of_dawn]

Doesn’t it say that this was undertaken upon request of the family? That the family requested it.

It seems that the Universal House of Justice only took action once the family requested it and did not initiate the action themselves until requested by the family.

Let's see the facts:

• DIYA'U'LLAH died in1898 his body was removed in 1965. That is about 67 years after his death.
• DIYA'U'LLAH is buried in the same room as his father Baha'u'llah. A privileged that no Baha'i would give up.
• Baha'is call the removal of his body the last step in purifying Baha'u'llah's shrine from contamination (oneness of humanity is overflowing from this statement)

So Baha'is expect us to believe that 67 years after the death of Baha'u'llah's son, his family nicely asked that his body be removed from the holiest of all places in the world and we are to completely ignore the statement about Baha'is cheering that they have finally purified Baha'u'llah's shrine from contamination?!

 

[loverofhumanity]

If another path or religion is not "superior" in knowledge, then what is it exactly that you want to learn from them?
Let me ask it in another way, do you think there is anything lacking in the Bahai faith that other paths or religions can supply you with?

And if there is nothing lacking in the Bahai faith, why do you need to learn anything from other faiths?

Thanks for asking a very good question.

One analogy comes to mind here. You know the one about the blind men and the elephant? My understanding is truth is in everyone and every religion but no one religion or person contains it all.

I see the religions in a holistic sense. For example Jesus emphasised love thy neighbour, love even your enemies and forgive those who wrong you. Whilst the Buddha emphasised mindfulness. Muhammad taught ummah or rules for community life and how to live as a nation. Moses brought the Ten Commandments. Krishna said our true selves is not our body. Zoroaster stressed good thoughts, good words and good deeds. Whilst Baha’u’llah teaches to love all religionists, nations and races.

So to me they are all and each complimentary each teaching an important aspect of truth that can benefit us all.

My humble opinion is that we need all these beautiful teachings in our lives and in society in order for us to have peace and happiness.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Let's see the facts:

• DIYA'U'LLAH died in1898 his body was removed in 1965. That is about 67 years after his death.
• DIYA'U'LLAH is buried in the same room as his father Baha'u'llah. A privileged that no Baha'i would give up.
• Baha'is call the removal of his body the last step in purifying Baha'u'llah's shrine from contamination (oneness of humanity is overflowing from this statement)

So Baha'is expect us to believe that 67 years after the death of Baha'u'llah's son, his family nicely asked that his body be removed from the holiest of all places in the world and we are to completely ignore the statement about Baha'is cheering that they have finally purified Baha'u'llah's shrine from contamination?!

The letter states it was a request not by the Baha’is but others named as the family of older covenant breakers.

It has nothing to do with the oneness of humanity but was a formal request to have the remains removed. Bahais would not remove it otherwise and 67 years is proof they respected that.

The fact it was left for 67 years is proof that it was only removed upon request.

I fail to see the connection to the oneness of mankind because

1. Baha’is did not initiate the removal, others did. We left it there for 67 years.

2. He was a Covenant breaker which is a traitor. Having a traitor buried near Baha’u’llah is not appropriate but nevertheless no effort was made to remove the remains until a formal request was made by others.