Women's head covering in Abrahamic belief systems.

[Ellen Brown]

In certain Jewish sects women cover their head whether by using a snood, or a wig and I do not know where that originated. I had been told that the Byzantines started it, but certainly the Jews predate them? Of course it is well known that almost all Muslim women are to cover their heads, but illogically the Quran only says to "cover your modesty". Perhaps that got established in one of the Hadiths, or Fatwas? As a once very observant Muslim, it is embarrassing to admit that I don't know except that many Muslim women will not even speak to a woman who is not covered.

Interestingly, most Christians think there is no head covering requirement, but if one looks at 1 Cor 11, and several places in the OT, the practice is there. Paul (?) makes it a requirement for respectable women, and in the OT, it seems to be assumed. Somehow all that got abrogated and I wonder if the bit in the NT got overworked when we were told we could eat anything?

In the present climate in America, I am fearful of covering my head and feel very guilty because of it.

 

[Naama]

In certain Jewish sects women cover their head whether by using a snood, or a wig and I do not know where that originated. I had been told that the Byzantines started it, but certainly the Jews predate them? Of course it is well known that almost all Muslim women are to cover their heads, but illogically the Quran only says to "cover your modesty". Perhaps that got established in one of the Hadiths, or Fatwas? As a once very observant Muslim, it is embarrassing to admit that I don't know except that many Muslim women will not even speak to a woman who is not covered.

Interestingly, most Christians think there is no head covering requirement, but if one looks at 1 Cor 11, and several places in the OT, the practice is there. Paul (?) makes it a requirement for respectable women, and in the OT, it seems to be assumed. Somehow all that got abrogated and I wonder if the bit in the NT got overworked when we were told we could eat anything?

In the present climate in America, I am fearful of covering my head and feel very guilty because of it.

Girl if you want to cover your head, then you should cover your head! Do it with pride!

If you need to talk honey just let me know!

 

[Ellen Brown]

Girl if you want to cover your head, then you should cover your head! Do it with pride!

If you need to talk honey just let me know!

Thank you Naama. I did until about a year ago when the political climate here in America got too frightening, and now I am ashamed of myself. There have been attacks where I live.

 

[Naama]

Thank you Naama. I did until about a year ago when the political climate here in America got too frightening, and now I am ashamed of myself. There have been attacks where I live.

I'm so sorry that's happening

I'm always here for you if you need someone to talk to.

 

[socharlie]

In certain Jewish sects women cover their head whether by using a snood, or a wig and I do not know where that originated. I had been told that the Byzantines started it, but certainly the Jews predate them? Of course it is well known that almost all Muslim women are to cover their heads, but illogically the Quran only says to "cover your modesty". Perhaps that got established in one of the Hadiths, or Fatwas? As a once very observant Muslim, it is embarrassing to admit that I don't know except that many Muslim women will not even speak to a woman who is not covered.

Interestingly, most Christians think there is no head covering requirement, but if one looks at 1 Cor 11, and several places in the OT, the practice is there. Paul (?) makes it a requirement for respectable women, and in the OT, it seems to be assumed. Somehow all that got abrogated and I wonder if the bit in the NT got overworked when we were told we could eat anything?

In the present climate in America, I am fearful of covering my head and feel very guilty because of it.

Why did Egyptians wear wigs? reasonable

 

[Ellen Brown]

I'm so sorry that's happening

I'm always here for you if you need someone to talk to.

Thank you. This is greatly confusing, especially when I find solid foundation for the practice in all three Abrahamic beliefs. As I said before, both Jews and Muslims still do the practice, and more and more I wonder if the Christians who do not do it are delinquent?

I am alone and old, do there is just lots of time to study and contemplate. Micah 6:8 He has shown you, O mortal, what is good.
And what does the Lord require of you?
To act justly, love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.

Is one of my favorites. And the Prophet Muhammad PBUH said to honor the people of the Book and their Book.

 

[Ellen Brown]

Why did Egyptians wear wigs? reasonable

I don't know. You'd have to ask one or an Anthropologist.

 

[TheBannerofHomuraAkemi]

In certain Jewish sects women cover their head whether by using a snood, or a wig and I do not know where that originated. I had been told that the Byzantines started it, but certainly the Jews predate them? Of course it is well known that almost all Muslim women are to cover their heads, but illogically the Quran only says to "cover your modesty". Perhaps that got established in one of the Hadiths, or Fatwas? As a once very observant Muslim, it is embarrassing to admit that I don't know except that many Muslim women will not even speak to a woman who is not covered.

Interestingly, most Christians think there is no head covering requirement, but if one looks at 1 Cor 11, and several places in the OT, the practice is there. Paul (?) makes it a requirement for respectable women, and in the OT, it seems to be assumed. Somehow all that got abrogated and I wonder if the bit in the NT got overworked when we were told we could eat anything?

In the present climate in America, I am fearful of covering my head and feel very guilty because of it.

The Oneness Pentecostal demoniation believes that woman's hair is suppose to be their covering and its an honor towards God.

But you should cover your head whatever way you feel like it.

 

[Ellen Brown]

The Oneness Pentecostal demoniation believes that woman's hair is suppose to be their covering and its an honor towards God.

But you should cover your head whatever way you feel like it.

So not understanding your position, but I have no argument with it. If as a Christian, one follows the Bible, how then is 1 Cor 11 abrogated? By what authority?

 

[TheBannerofHomuraAkemi]

So not understanding your position, but I have no argument with it. If as a Christian, one follows the Bible, how then is 1 Cor 11 abrogated? By what authority?

Thats a good question. Unfortunately I don't know the exact answer because there are many demoniations in the Christian religion and each branch has a different reason why some parts are not to be followed. But if I had to guess I would say mainly its inconvenient t for them to follow so they make up a reason to not follow it like it was written by Paul and Paul was known to be very anti-women etc.

 

[outlawState]

Interestingly, most Christians think there is no head covering requirement, but if one looks at 1 Cor 11, and several places in the OT, the practice is there. Paul (?) makes it a requirement for respectable women, and in the OT, it seems to be assumed. Somehow all that got abrogated and I wonder if the bit in the NT got overworked when we were told we could eat anything?

In the present climate in America, I am fearful of covering my head and feel very guilty because of it.

Christianity in the USA is deeply heretical for the most part. There is clearly a head covering requirement in 1 Cor 11, as you say and it is not diminished by political hedonism as prevails in so many USA churches.

There are some Christian denominations that still practice it, especially Free Presbyterians and Amish, Anabaptists, Brethren (but not all Brethren), and generally more conservative groups of Christians, including even some Catholic groups. You could always wear a hat. There is no need for a veil or hijab. Personally I like women in hats. As Paul says "a sign of authority." There is no need to be pedantic here.

 

[Ellen Brown]

Christianity in the USA is deeply heretical for the most part. There is clearly a head covering requirement in 1 Cor 11, as you say and it is not diminished by political hedonism as prevails in so many USA churches.

There are some Christian denominations that still practice it, especially Free Presbyterians and Amish, Anabaptists, Brethren (but not all Brethren), and generally more conservative groups of Christians, including even some Catholic groups. You could always wear a hat. There is no need for a veil or hijab. Personally I like women in hats. As Paul says "a sign of authority." There is no need to be pedantic here.

I "thought" I was simply an Abrahamic Religionist, because of my distaste for most modern Christianity. Not that I wish to get in an argument with any of them because they are free to choose their path. Perhaps "Biblical Literalist and Not Changing" fits better? I just found out about a "Headcovering for Women" Christian group, but don't actually know anything about them. I'd be most open to simply returning to Hijab, though my feeling today is because of certain socio political forces, Hijab might be dangerous.

 

[outlawState]

I "thought" I was simply an Abrahamic Religionist, because of my distaste for most modern Christianity. Not that I wish to get in an argument with any of them because they are free to choose their path. Perhaps "Biblical Literalist and Not Changing" fits better? I just found out about a "Headcovering for Women" Christian group, but don't actually know anything about them. I'd be most open to simply returning to Hijab, though my feeling today is because of certain socio political forces, Hijab might be dangerous.

I am not sure that they are "free to choose their path". Such freedom you refer to infers a political freedom, not the freedom given by the bible. There is no religious freedom given by the bible to practice political hedonism, or antinomianisn. Whatever you choose I wish you success. I certainly don't think women should feel uncomfortable about wearing a headcovering in church. If such a church makes you feel uncomfortable, it is probably best avoided.

 

[Ellen Brown]

I am not sure that they are "free to choose their path". Such freedom you refer to infers a political freedom, not the freedom given by the bible. There is no religious freedom given by the bible to practice political hedonism, or antinomianisn. Whatever you choose I wish you success. I certainly don't think women should feel uncomfortable about wearing a headcovering in church. If such a church makes you feel uncomfortable, it is probably best avoided.

I am not sure that they are "free to choose their path". Such freedom you refer to infers a political freedom, not the freedom given by the bible. There is no religious freedom given by the bible to practice political hedonism, or antinomianisn. Whatever you choose I wish you success. I certainly don't think women should feel uncomfortable about wearing a headcovering in church. If such a church makes you feel uncomfortable, it is probably best avoided.

Thank you. Since I am alone, and divorced, and intend to remain celibate, there should be few personal distractions, and that is what Jesus the Christ appears to expect of those who are truly devoted to him. The church I have been attending is mildly Charismatic and it makes me uneasy but will likely do until God sends me somewhere else. It is across the street.

There is lots of Biblical support for raising hands. It's the Tongues that give me chills.

 

[Estro Felino]

Interestingly, most Christians think there is no head covering requirement, but if one looks at 1 Cor 11, and several places in the OT, the practice is there. Paul (?) makes it a requirement for respectable women, and in the OT, it seems to be assumed. Somehow all that got abrogated and I wonder if the bit in the NT got overworked when we were told we could eat anything?

Thank you for bringing it up...very good point. Indeed...there is a huge difference; in the first situation Paul (a man) expresses a personal opinion, and says what a woman should do when she prays.
We need to underline that Paul is not God, nor he speaks on his behalf.

In the second situation God Himself speaks to Peter telling him "Kill and eat".

 

[Ellen Brown]

Thank you for bringing it up...very good point. Indeed...there is a huge difference; in the first situation Paul (a man) expresses a personal opinion, and says what a woman should do when she prays.
We need to underline that Paul is not God, nor he speaks on his behalf.

In the second situation God Himself speaks to Peter telling him "Kill and eat".

I tend to be very conservative, perhaps obsessive about these issues, owing to my own experiences, some of which were extremely wounding. Of course, I try not to make demands on others. I won't go into my story save to say that there are circumstances that can cause people to believe they will ever be worthy, and it does not go away.

My own opinion on 1 Cor. 11 is that it absolutely should be followed, especially in the light of Gen. 6, and several (about 5 I think) places in the OT where it is assumed. Right now, I a struggling with the idea that a head covering in the church I have been attending perhaps draws attention to me, and I honestly do not know what to do.

And, in my opinion, the "Kill and Eat" statement does not free us of anything but food prohibition, and I still feel very uneasy about eating pork, partially due to my Islamic background, and what I have heard from medical folk about the consuming of it. Much bacon and hot dogs have very high nitrates, and most of it has a lot of injected sugar water. I was told that I would have to almost go to the farm and special order Bacon right off the hog. Of course there is the issue of curing, and I don't know what that does.

 

[outlawState]

It's the Tongues that give me chills.

They are not all real tongues and every Christian gift can be mimicked by the devil. I tend to stay clear of charismatic churches, as unacceptably legalistic; but I understand that in this day and age, choice of church within reasonable distance is seldom abundant.

 

[A.C. Simon]

Have you read 1 Corinthians 11 carefully?

First off it begins with in verse 3: “But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.”
Which could mean that Paul is not talking about actual head covering here, but a man not covering Christ and a woman covering her husband.

But even if it wasn’t; and it was talking about actual head covering, Paul only says to cover your head while praying or prophesying; not all the time. But even then in verse 16 he goes on to say that it is not a custom/practice in the churches of God “ But if any man seem to be contentious, we have no such custom, neither the churches of God.”.

Personally I agree that woman should dress modestly, just like the bible says; and I even like the idea of head coverings because there seems to be an aspect of being holy before the Lord: but there’s no rule or commandment that says a woman must wear a head covering in the bible.

Plus there’s much biblical support for tongues and the gifts of the Holy Spirit.

 

[Ellen Brown]

Have you read 1 Corinthians 11 carefully?

First off it begins with in verse 3: “But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.”
Which could mean that Paul is not talking about actual head covering here, but a man not covering Christ and a woman covering her husband.

But even if it wasn’t; and it was talking about actual head covering, Paul only says to cover your head while praying or prophesying; not all the time. But even then in verse 16 he goes on to say that it is not a custom/practice in the churches of God “ But if any man seem to be contentious, we have no such custom, neither the churches of God.”.

Personally I agree that woman should dress modestly, just like the bible says; and I even like the idea of head coverings because there seems to be an aspect of being holy before the Lord: but there’s no rule or commandment that says a woman must wear a head covering in the bible.

Plus there’s much biblical support for tongues and the gifts of the Holy Spirit.

It is undeniable that pleasing God is extremely important to me, and being alone, perhaps I don't always get things right. It seems that each spiritual principle is being proven to me in a way that leaves little room for argument. At present a Snood seems to be comforting as far as 1 Cor. 11 is concerned. I was not feeling comfortable about raised hands in worship, and then found that it occurs 51 times in scripture, so that is sufficient motivation. As to tongues, I have not experienced direct action of it. But will not be stubborn about it. It is unkind to infer that one does not have the Holy Spirit without it.

 

[A.C. Simon]

It is undeniable that pleasing God is extremely important to me, and being alone, perhaps I don't always get things right. It seems that each spiritual principle is being proven to me in a way that leaves little room for argument. At present a Snood seems to be comforting as far as 1 Cor. 11 is concerned. I was not feeling comfortable about raised hands in worship, and then found that it occurs 51 times in scripture, so that is sufficient motivation. As to tongues, I have not experienced direct action of it. But will not be stubborn about it. It is unkind to infer that one does not have the Holy Spirit without it.

I see it as when a person truly repents and becomes baptized to Jesus, he becomes one spirit with the Lord(1 Corinthians 17), therefore that person is saved and has the Spirit within. But the bible does talk about going further and receiving the gift of the Holy Spirit which comes upon a person and gives them power to witness; and it does seem that there always were utterances(prophecy or tongues) accompanied when it falls upon a person. As Jesus himself said in John 7:38-39, “He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water. (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.). So there seems to be a flow coming from the persons innermost being as evidence that the person has received the Holy Ghost. There are other examples like in acts 19 when Paul asks the disciples in Ephesus if you have received the Holy Spirit when you believed and they said no, telling us you can be a disciple and not receive the Holy Spirit, but going on when they did receive, they spoke in tongues and prophesied. And in Luke 11:13 it says, “...how much more will the heavely father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask Him” in the context of a Father giving gifts to His child, so saying that His children(born-again followers of Jesus) should ask Him for the gift of the Holy Spirit, and He will give it to them.