Atheism produces little hope

[Spiderman]

So I was studying Shintoism, what used to be the state religion of Japan, and an atheist mocked it.

Shinto's probably don't have the whole truth, and they probably have some legends that are nothing more than someone with a wild imagination.

However, they might have some truth. They build great tombs for their emperors, where they go to pray and burn incense and make wishes.

They believe their Spirits live on as Kami, exalted glorified spirits, and continue looking out for their Nation.

When a family member dies, the family member becomes a "family kami", looking out for the family with the ancestors.

They have many shrines that are dedicated to the soldiers who died in various Wars, where hundreds of thousands of names are written in a book of souls.

They venerate their ancestors and dead relatives, and keep shrines to them.

There are priests and clergy who pray to the kami and care for the shrine, which they believe is a house for the spirits, whom they honor in many ways, accepting any visitors.

The Shinto's believe that everything from rocks, trees, water, the sun, nature, and all creatures, contains something divine, and is evidence for the existence of the Divine.

I was mocked by an Atheist for sharing my recent attempt to practice Shintoism (and connect with the kami and souls of the Emperors of the rising sun), and mentioning a coincidence that came afterwards, that spoke to me.

Perhaps it was just a stupid coincidence with no Supernatural origin... I do actually treat everything with skepticism, despite being very spiritual.

But I honestly felt pity for the atheist who was mocking me.

So back to the title of the thread. I'm not saying that atheists have no hope. If you're happy as an atheist, I don't want you to be a theist..., I want you to be happy.

However, the philosophy of atheism is hopeless, if you look at it in this sense,

What do you have to look forward to 200 years from now? There's really not much hope in that context.

Shinto's, as well as roughly 93% of the world has hope that the spirit goes on living. They also have hope that there are spirits, whether those Spirits be gods, goddesses, kami, Saints, Angels, or ancestors, that look out for and help the world.

Hoping in such things, and prayers to those supernatural entities can produce joy, ecstasy, euphoria, bliss, and peace... I've experienced it many times.

Also, people of many faiths believe that the euphoria, beauty, and joy that we experience on this Earth, is just a foretaste of a much greater euphoria, beauty, and joy after our spirit leaves its body, and travels to perfection, eventually reaching some form of paradise.

That can produce a lot of Hope.

So, these people, who make up the vast majority of the world, can actually hope that 200 years from now, they will be experiencing joy, pleasure, euphoria, and bliss, that the joy and euphoria we experience on Earth, cannot even come close to equaling.

An atheist on the other hand, is stubbornly clinging to the belief that they will just become food for the maggots and worms, rot in a hole, or become a pile of ash.

We evolved from a single cell organism in the ocean or pond scum, there are no Supernatural entities looking out for us, and we will get sick, fall apart, die any day, and there's no hope for anything afterwards.

Now an atheist is not without hope in this context. They can enjoy sensual pleasures, friendships, marriage, hobbies, nature, food, fun, games, adventure, romance, beauty, etc.

But the beauty is fleeting. I'm sure many beautiful people lost their beauty overnight in a firey car crash ,or became paralyzed from the neck down overnight in something similar.

Just an example that everything is fleeting, and all you've worked for can be taken from you today or tomorrow.

The theist has hope that this is not our home. That we have a destiny to find an eternal home that is better than this.

So, in view of what's going to matter 100 years from now, atheism doesn't really produce much, if any hope.

Many theists have almost unshakable hope, and are experiencing peace, joy, and Euphoria in their spiritual practices.

Now what if the 7% of atheists are correct, and the 93% of people who believe in Supernatural entities are mistaken...

Well 200 years from now, the atheists will not be celebrating that they were right, and the theists will not regret that they were wrong.

So, no one really wins...

I've read multiple books by survivors of concentration camps. They said, many of the people that went and grabbed the electric fence to commit suicide, or completely gave up hope and died, were people that had no faith.

People that had strong faith, had more hope, and it made their experience in the concentration camp more bearable.

I could die tomorrow, so I'm going to choose the path that gives me more joy.

I could be wrong, but at least it makes me happy even in some of the worst of circumstances sometimes...that is, studying the various spiritualities of different religions and trying to practice it.

If I die, I'm not going to regret being wrong... and perhaps, that tiny 7% of people who rejected this hope, were so smart they knew better than over 90% of people out there.

Good for them! 100 years from now, none of us will care.

Thoughts?

I'm going to continue my studies of Shintoism for now... and pray to the samurai and emperors of the sun!

 

[Sunstone]

What does any of this have to do with atheism? You appear to be gratuitously slamming it without providing any substance to back up your thread title.

 

[Spiderman]

And maybe, just maybe that 93% of people was correct, that the spirit goes on living, and I die tomorrow and realize that what I not only hoped for, was actually a reality , to one extent or another...

I'm not saying Christianity or the Bible is true by the way

 

[Spiderman]

What does any of this have to do with atheism? You appear to be gratuitously slamming it without providing any substance to back up your thread title.

The subject is Hope.

I'm putting forth the reasons why I believe that faith produces more hope

 

[Sunstone]

The subject is Hope.

I'm putting forth the reasons why I believe that faith produces more hope

Then why not title your thread "Faith Produces Hope". Given your OP, you title comes across as a gratuitous dig at atheists.

 

[Spiderman]

Then why not title your thread "Faith Produces Hope". Given your OP, you title comes across as a gratuitous dig at atheists.

Yes, I was being critical of atheism.
I see threads here on a regular basis that are critical of Christianity... so why not

An atheist was mocking me for studying and practicing Shintoism, and mentioning a coincidence that came from it...

It was probably a stupid coincidence and nothing Supernatural.

But it got me thinking, that in view of what matters a hundred years from now, I don't see atheism producing any real hope.

More than 90% of the world has hope that the soul goes on living, often the hope is that it will be living in a greater state of joy, peace, Bliss, Beauty, and euphoria than anything experienced on this Earth...

There is much hope in that, and little hope in atheism, When Hope is used in that context...

Perhaps you can refute my statement?

if you have found happiness as an atheist... I'm happy for you! Keep doing what makes you happy!

 

[HonestJoe]

However, the philosophy of atheism is hopeless, if you look at it in this sense,

Atheism isn’t a philosophy. Atheism is just a label for not to believing in any god or gods. It’s the direct opposite of theism and neither term means or automatically implies anything more than their literal definitions.

Individuals can develop philosophies with don’t involve the existence of any gods and therefore are atheistic and people can develop philosophies with do involve the existence of any gods and therefore are theistic. On pretty much any other measure though, including level of “hopelessness”, there is no reason why any one class of philosophy will necessarily be better than the other.

Shinto's, as well as roughly 93% of the world has hope that the spirit goes on living.

You keep quoting that 293%” statistic and would be interested to know where you’re getting it from. I suspect you’re misrepresenting it since the idea that 93% of the world population can agree on anything so fundamental strikes me as highly unlikely.

I could die tomorrow, so I'm going to choose the path that gives me more joy.

It isn’t a choice. Belief is an involuntary reaction based on our knowledge, experiences and the unique nature of our minds. You either belief in something or you don’t (or, if you’re honest with yourself, you’re not sure). No amount of wanting the believe something because it sounds more hopeful is going to alter what you actually believe and seeking that path doesn’t strike me as especially healthy.

 

[Sunstone]

There is much hope in that, and little hope in atheism, When Hope is used in that context...

Perhaps you can refute my statement?

if you have found happiness as an atheist... I'm happy for you! Keep doing what makes you happy!

Hope is logically irrelevant to whether or not deity exists.

As for being happy, atheism impacts that neither one way nor the other.

 

[Jumi]

If you are trying to look at Shinto positively, why go for the darkest or worst period of it's existence? Or are you trying to mock that Japanese faith in a backhanded way?

 

[Spiderman]

If you are trying to look at Shinto positively, why go for the darkest or worst period of it's existence? Or are you trying to mock that Japanese faith in a backhanded way?

No I'm not mocking Shintoism

I admire Shintoism since its founding till today

 

[Spiderman]

Atheism isn’t a philosophy. Atheism is just a label for not to believing in any god or gods. It’s the direct opposite of theism and neither term means or automatically implies anything more than their literal definitions.

Individuals can develop philosophies with don’t involve the existence of any gods and therefore are atheistic and people can develop philosophies with do involve the existence of any gods and therefore are theistic. On pretty much any other measure though, including level of “hopelessness”, there is no reason why any one class of philosophy will necessarily be better than the other.

You keep quoting that 293%” statistic and would be interested to know where you’re getting it from. I suspect you’re misrepresenting it since the idea that 93% of the world population can agree on anything so fundamental strikes me as highly unlikely.

It isn’t a choice. Belief is an involuntary reaction based on our knowledge, experiences and the unique nature of our minds. You either belief in something or you don’t (or, if you’re honest with yourself, you’re not sure). No amount of wanting the believe something because it sounds more hopeful is going to alter what you actually believe and seeking that path doesn’t strike me as especially healthy.

My statistics could be off.....

But Wikipedia says roughly 7% of the world is atheist....

Those who believe in spirits, gods, goddesses, Angels, Saints, fae, kami, or believe that the body dies , and the Soul goes on living, make up the vast majority of the world.

There are 2.2 billion Christians , 1.8 billion Muslims, 1.1 billion Hindus, and who knows how many shaman, spiritualists, pagans, shintoists, Jews, and whatever else, that are all united in the belief that the spirit goes on living after the body dies.... they make up the vast majority of the world...

I confess that I don't know what the exact percentage is.... but the Wikipedia estimate says 7% of the world is atheist

 

[HonestJoe]

My statistics could be off.....

But Wikipedia says roughly 7% of the world is atheist....

Not “off”, wilfully misrepresented. Based on this statistic, all you can say about the 93% is that they’re not atheist. You can’t make any specific assertions about what all of those people do believe at all. “Not atheist” in no way automatically means “Believes in spirits and life after death”.

Of course, you misrepresented what “atheist” means too. Maybe you need to stop thinking in terms of labels and pigeon holes and start thinking about real individual human beings. Stop telling people what they believe and start asking them.

 

[SomeRandom]

It depends on how one perceives things. An atheist can look at the limited time on earth and rejoice. For it gives one a chance to experience everything one can without the threat of complacency. Like if you thought you had an afterlife to look forward to, you'd have that over your head all the time. Judging your actions, your words. A person without such belief could be free of that and perceive that as a blessing (for lack of a better term.)

Although people of any religious flavour can be jerks. Tis the way of humans unfortunately.

 

[Spiderman]

Not “off”, wilfully misrepresented. Based on this statistic, all you can say about the 93% is that they’re not atheist. You can’t make any specific assertions about what all of those people do believe at all. “Not atheist” in no way automatically means “Believes in spirits and life after death”.

Of course, you misrepresented what “atheist” means too. Maybe you need to stop thinking in terms of labels and pigeon holes and start thinking about real individual human beings. Stop telling people what they believe and start asking them.

Okay I'll accept correction. I personally , based on statistics I've read , still believe that over 90% of the world believes in spirits or that the spirit continues living after the body dies... but I very well could be wrong about that.

Either way, I know without a doubt that the vast majority of people do indeed have those beliefs.

There are over 2.2 billion Christians, 1.8 billion Muslims, 1.1 billion Hindus, so that's already quite a bit more than half the population in the world, and then there's Jews, pagans, shamanistic religions, necromancers, new agers, shintoists, spiritualists, some buddhists, and many others who have faith in life after death.... it obviously makes up a huge mass of the majority of people in our world...

So I probably wasn't extremely far off...

 

[Woberts]

Why do atheists need hope? It's just a state of mind, and one that people have been doing just fine without for centuries.

 

[Spiderman]

*content moderated*

I asked him if he was Japanese or Shinto,
that does not mean I assumed he was...

I thought it was interesting that I took up a study of Shintoism, then prayed to the kami and emperors, and right after doing so found a Japanese flag in my notifications, from a person whose name means "the Rising Sun"... Japan was called the nation of the Rising Sun.

I thought maybe the coincidence was a sign.

it might have just been a coincidence.

Either way, I've actually listened to what people have to say.

However, I've watched many documentaries with eyewitness accounts of Miracles interviewed, that I am convinced have taken place, and many doctors and scientists have explained very unexplainable miraculous phenomenon.

For all you know, they may have experienced healings and prophecies.

just because someone presents a link where somebody says it didn't happen, doesn't mean I've been proven wrong.

Just because you have not witnessed miraculous healings, signs and wonders, or prophesy, or mystic experience, doesn't mean it doesn't happen to some people.

to say you know it doesn't happen, is extremely arrogant, and you have nothing to prove it.

at least I'm willing to admit that I don't know.

I'm still waiting for you to demonstrate the rational thoughts and common consideration to admit that you don't know either

 

[Cacotopia]

Hinduism is not just a religion it is a philosophy as well within the religion as a whole two notable lines of thought within Hinduism, Samkhya and Yoga rejected the idea of an eternal, self-caused, creator God, Mimamsa argued that the Vedas could not have been authored by a deity. Yes I just looked that up. I will continue to look up more information on theistic religions who have groups within the large domain as a whole that reject deities. Check out Christian atheism, a cultural movement within Christianity that is inspired by the teachings of Jesus while rejecting that he was in fact a god nor was there a creator. You can also look up Jesuism for more information.

 

[Cacotopia]

There it is again, it was a sign! or coincidence, you never take a stance. Ever.

 

[Spiderman]

There it is again, it was a sign! or coincidence, you never take a stance. Ever.

I already said, maybe it was not a sign...

Truth is, I don't know

I'm willing to admit I don't know, why aren't you willing to admit you don't know?

 

[Augustus]

Hinduism is not just a religion it is a philosophy as well

Can you give me an example of a religion that is not also a philosophy?