Christ Has returned, what should have we looked for?

[CG Didymus]

No I cannot give you clarity in these matters.

CG, that is up to you to decide. The explanations given by Baha'u'llah and Abdul'baha and Shoghi Effendi are correct.

I have suggested a path for you to determine if you could also place the required Trust in their replies. Without that trust, it matters not what else we offer.

What we then make of the rest of it is up to us.

Regards Tony

Hey Tony, I was doing a search on the Beasts and Anti-Christ and found a site calling itself "The Official Website of the Universal House of Justice." It didn't look all that "Official". Is it a legitimate Baha'i site?

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Hey Tony, I was doing a search on the Beasts and Anti-Christ and found a site calling itself "The Official Website of the Universal House of Justice." It didn't look all that "Official". Is it a legitimate Baha'i site?

I think all Baha'i sites have .org

This One Is - The Universal House of Justice - An official website of the Bahá’í Faith

On this page it lists all the other official sites - Other Bahá’í sites | The Universal House of Justice - An official website of the Bahá’í Faith

The one that has .net is a covenant breakers web site. (Interestingly lots of dark colours are used)

the Baha'i Libary at .com is not an official site either.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

I believe there is no evidence to back up that concept. Daniel does talk about the false prophet but it is not a sure thing that it is Muhammad.

I believe I can't imagine what you are trying to say.

I believe that is not true.

I believe there isn't a shred of sense in that statement.

I believe anyone who knows anything about the Qu'ran knows the words in parentheses are not in the Qu'ran. Those words are mere speculation without any validity.

I believe those words are not in the original text, the original text read: "Allah His Son". IN Arabic the "is" is often left out between nouns and the translation should read "Allah is His Son."

That is what this thread is about. As a Baha'i we say Christ has returned and since many have not seen this, what should have we been looking for?

You say it is not Christ returned as the Father, Baha'u'llah and you are more than free to hold that opinion.

I do wish you well in your further wait for this event to happen.

Regards Tony

 

[CG Didymus]

I think all Baha'i sites have .org

This One Is - The Universal House of Justice - An official website of the Bahá’í Faith

On this page it lists all the other official sites - Other Bahá’í sites | The Universal House of Justice - An official website of the Bahá’í Faith

The one that has .net is a covenant breakers web site. (Interestingly lots of dark colours are used)

the Baha'i Libary at .com is not an official site either.

Regards Tony

Thanks

 

[CG Didymus]

That is what this thread is about. As a Baha'i we say Christ has returned and since many have not seen this, what should have we been looking for?

You say it is not Christ returned as the Father, Baha'u'llah and you are more than free to hold that opinion.

I do wish you well in your further wait for this event to happen.

Regards Tony

Another important thing to know that is related to this, is what are Christians looking for now. The Beast and Anti-Christ is part of what they are expecting. They are looking for the related signs that go with them like no will be able to buy and sell without the mark of the Beast.

Something that needs to be debated here is also the dates prophesied in Daniel that Baha'is use to get to 1844. I'd be interested in how some Christians predicted that date while others ignore it. So what date do they use, or how do they interpret the verses to get around it?

Last, there is the 1000 years of peace before Satan is released and destroyed in Revelation 20. It mentions a Gog and Mahog. What is the Baha'i interpretation of that chapter? Thanks

 

[CG Didymus]

That is what this thread is about. As a Baha'i we say Christ has returned and since many have not seen this, what should have we been looking for?

You say it is not Christ returned as the Father, Baha'u'llah and you are more than free to hold that opinion.

I do wish you well in your further wait for this event to happen.

Regards Tony

Come on Baha'is don't leave this thread hanging. You believe "Christ" has returned. You say all the prophesies have been fulfilled. You say people have to independently investigate the truth. If the claims of Baha'u'llah and the Baha'i Faith are true, it is not the most important thing in the world for all of us. Is it true? Can it be shown and proven to be true?

Has anyone converted yet to the Baha'i Faith from this forum? If not, then get back here and answer the questions. Are there still a lot of people with serious questions and doubts about Baha'u'llah being "Christ" returned? Yes there is, then get back here and get into the debate.

But if you really think you have the truth, you can't just fade away. If your answers aren't accepted and questioned, then go deeper. If you can't, then who's going to take the Baha'i Faith seriously? Why should they take the Baha'i Faith seriously?

 

[Muffled]

The Biblical proof that backs Baha’u’llah up can be found in this book: Thief in the Night

I believe that is too much to read. I don't believe any Biblical reference in that book will help in the least. I believe you will have to do the work if you really want to make a case here. It appears to me as just a work of fiction.

 

[Muffled]

That is a cat 5 Hurricane or Tornado

Should help to break wind!

Regards Tony

I believe if I had the time I could listen to a long winded argument for the sake of amusement.

 

[Muffled]

Another important thing to know that is related to this, is what are Christians looking for now. The Beast and Anti-Christ is part of what they are expecting. They are looking for the related signs that go with them like no will be able to buy and sell without the mark of the Beast.

Something that needs to be debated here is also the dates prophesied in Daniel that Baha'is use to get to 1844. I'd be interested in how some Christians predicted that date while others ignore it. So what date do they use, or how do they interpret the verses to get around it?

Last, there is the 1000 years of peace before Satan is released and destroyed in Revelation 20. It mentions a Gog and Mahog. What is the Baha'i interpretation of that chapter? Thanks

I believed in 2001. It looked so good but even though Nostradamus had that date more or less, it did not pan out. Now I am hoping for something before 2044. Wish me luck. I would be 102 in that year.

 

[Trailblazer]

I believe that is too much to read. I don't believe any Biblical reference in that book will help in the least. I believe you will have to do the work if you really want to make a case here. It appears to me as just a work of fiction.

I have already done my homework, so I know who Baha'u'llah was....
Thief in the Night is not a work of fiction, it is the result of seven years of hard research by a man who was a Christian. He even traveled to the Holy Land to do research. He left no stone unturned.

 

[CG Didymus]

I have already done my homework, so I know who Baha'u'llah was....
Thief in the Night is not a work of fiction, it is the result of seven years of hard research by a man who was a Christian. He even traveled to the Holy Land to do research. He left no stone unturned.

In Bill Sears book, who is the "Abomination of Desolation" and what is the "Millenium" referring to?

 

[Trailblazer]

In Bill Sears book, who is the "Abomination of Desolation" and what is the "Millenium" referring to?

The case of the missing millennium is referring to the 19th century, the century where everyone MISSED the Return of Christ, which was Baha’u’llah.

The Problem.
In the first half of the nineteenth century, there was world-wide and fervent expectation that during the 1840’s the return of Christ would take place. The story made the headlines and even reached the Congress of the United States. From China and the Middle East to Europe and America, men of conflicting ideas shared in the expectancy. Scoffers were many but the enthusiasm was tremendous, and all agreed on the time. Why? And what became of the story? Did anything happen or was it all a dream?

The Solution.
Patiently, and with exemplary thoroughness, William Sears set out to solve this mystery. In Thief in the Night he presents his fully detailed “conduct of the case” in an easy style which enthuses the reader with the excitement of the chase. The solution to which all the clues lead comes as a tremendous challenge.

This is a mystery story with a difference: the mystery is a real one, and of vital importance to every human being. The author presents the evidence in The case of the missing millennium in such a way that you can solve it for yourself.

Christ returns
In fact, our press has been scooped by over a century. You will find here considerable evidence to show that when the newspapers and publications of the 1840s printed their stories headed, Return of Christ expected, they were printing not fancy, but fact, even though they were unaware of the nature of the story at the time, and were totally unable to substantiate its truth in that hour.

If what I have uncovered is the truth, then (according to the testimony of the hard-boiled newspaper editors of the West) it is the most shocking and dramatic story that anyone could possibly tell in print.

But will anyone believe me?

You are now starting where I started a few years ago on The strange case of the missing millennium.
William Sears.

William Sears, Thief in the Night
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
“In the eighth chapter of the Book of Daniel, verse thirteen, it is said: “Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain saint which spake, How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, and the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot?” Then he answered (v. 14): “Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed”; (v. 17) “But he said unto me … at the time of the end shall be the vision.” That is to say, how long will this misfortune, this ruin, this abasement and degradation last? meaning, when will be the dawn of the Manifestation? Then he answered, “Two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.” Some Answered Questions, pp. 41-42

“In Matthew, chapter 24, verse 3, Christ clearly says that what Daniel meant by this prophecy was the date of the manifestation, and this is the verse: “As He sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto Him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of Thy coming, and of the end of the world?” One of the explanations He gave them in reply was this (v. 15): “When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand).” In this answer He referred them to the eighth chapter of the Book of Daniel, saying that everyone who reads it will understand that it is this time that is spoken of. Consider how clearly the manifestation of the Báb is spoken of in the Old Testament and in the Gospel.” Some Answered Questions, pp. 42-43

From: 10: TRADITIONAL PROOFS EXEMPLIFIED FROM THE BOOK OF DANIEL

 

[CG Didymus]

The case of the missing millennium is referring to the 19th century, the century where everyone MISSED the Return of Christ, which was Baha’u’llah.

The Problem.
In the first half of the nineteenth century, there was world-wide and fervent expectation that during the 1840’s the return of Christ would take place. The story made the headlines and even reached the Congress of the United States. From China and the Middle East to Europe and America, men of conflicting ideas shared in the expectancy. Scoffers were many but the enthusiasm was tremendous, and all agreed on the time. Why? And what became of the story? Did anything happen or was it all a dream?

The Solution.
Patiently, and with exemplary thoroughness, William Sears set out to solve this mystery. In Thief in the Night he presents his fully detailed “conduct of the case” in an easy style which enthuses the reader with the excitement of the chase. The solution to which all the clues lead comes as a tremendous challenge.

This is a mystery story with a difference: the mystery is a real one, and of vital importance to every human being. The author presents the evidence in The case of the missing millennium in such a way that you can solve it for yourself.

Christ returns
In fact, our press has been scooped by over a century. You will find here considerable evidence to show that when the newspapers and publications of the 1840s printed their stories headed, Return of Christ expected, they were printing not fancy, but fact, even though they were unaware of the nature of the story at the time, and were totally unable to substantiate its truth in that hour.

If what I have uncovered is the truth, then (according to the testimony of the hard-boiled newspaper editors of the West) it is the most shocking and dramatic story that anyone could possibly tell in print.

But will anyone believe me?

You are now starting where I started a few years ago on The strange case of the missing millennium.
William Sears.

William Sears, Thief in the Night
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
“In the eighth chapter of the Book of Daniel, verse thirteen, it is said: “Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain saint which spake, How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, and the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot?” Then he answered (v. 14): “Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed”; (v. 17) “But he said unto me … at the time of the end shall be the vision.” That is to say, how long will this misfortune, this ruin, this abasement and degradation last? meaning, when will be the dawn of the Manifestation? Then he answered, “Two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.” Some Answered Questions, pp. 41-42

“In Matthew, chapter 24, verse 3, Christ clearly says that what Daniel meant by this prophecy was the date of the manifestation, and this is the verse: “As He sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto Him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of Thy coming, and of the end of the world?” One of the explanations He gave them in reply was this (v. 15): “When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand).” In this answer He referred them to the eighth chapter of the Book of Daniel, saying that everyone who reads it will understand that it is this time that is spoken of. Consider how clearly the manifestation of the Báb is spoken of in the Old Testament and in the Gospel.” Some Answered Questions, pp. 42-43

From: 10: TRADITIONAL PROOFS EXEMPLIFIED FROM THE BOOK OF DANIEL

I think Christian say the abomination of desolation is a person, like the anti-Christ and the beast they are expecting. Is there any people that Baha'is say fulfills any of those? Other than the beasts and dragons of Revelation that Baha'is say are the Umayyad and Abbasids from over a thousand years ago.

Then there is a Millennium mentioned in Revelation and a Gog and Magog. What is the Baha'i explanation of those?

 

[Trailblazer]

I think Christian say the abomination of desolation is a person, like the anti-Christ and the beast they are expecting. Is there any people that Baha'is say fulfills any of those? Other than the beasts and dragons of Revelation that Baha'is say are the Umayyad and Abbasids from over a thousand years ago.

Then there is a Millennium mentioned in Revelation and a Gog and Magog. What is the Baha'i explanation of those?

Of course Christianity interprets Revelation differently than the Baha’i Faith. Christians believe much of it is about the return of the same man Jesus and the events that will happen surrounding that event, before and after. Baha’is believe much of Revelation is about Baha’u’llah, who we believe was the return of Christ.

I do not bother to try to understand Revelation. Unless specific verses were explained by Abdu’l-Baha or Baha’u’llah there is no way I can know what they mean, I can only guess.

...The Bible is not wholly authentic, and in this respect is not to be compared with the Qur'an, and should be wholly subordinated to the authentic writings of Bahá'u'lláh
. (28 July 1936 to a National Spiritual Assembly)

When 'Abdu'l-Bahá states we believe what is in the Bible, He means in substance. Not that we believe every word of it to be taken literally or that every word is the authentic saying of the Prophet.
(11 February 1944 to an individual believer)

We cannot be sure of the authenticity of any of the phrases in the Old or the New Testament. What we can be sure of is when such references or words are cited or quoted in either the Quran or the Bahá'í writings.
(4 July 1947 to an individual believer)

Except for what has been explained by Bahá'u'lláh and 'Abdu'l-Bahá, we have no way of knowing what various symbolic allusions in the Bible mean.
(31 January 1955 to an individual believer)

In studying the Bible Bahá'ís must bear two principles in mind. The first is that many passages in Sacred Scriptures are intended to be taken metaphorically, not literally, and some of the paradoxes and apparent contradictions which appear are intended to indicate this. The second is the fact that the text of the early Scriptures, such as the Bible, is not wholly authentic.
(28 May 1984 to an individual believer)

...The Bahá'ís believe that God's Revelation is under His care and protection and that the essence, or essential elements, of what His Manifestations intended to convey has been recorded and preserved in Their Holy Books. However, as the sayings of the ancient Prophets were written down some time later, we cannot categorically state, as we do in the case of the Writings of Bahá'u'lláh, that the words and phrases attributed to Them are Their exact words
(9 August 1984 to an individual believer)
The Bible

 

[CG Didymus]

The case of the missing millennium is referring to the 19th century, the century where everyone MISSED the Return of Christ, which was Baha’u’llah.

The Problem.
In the first half of the nineteenth century, there was world-wide and fervent expectation that during the 1840’s the return of Christ would take place. The story made the headlines and even reached the Congress of the United States. From China and the Middle East to Europe and America, men of conflicting ideas shared in the expectancy. Scoffers were many but the enthusiasm was tremendous, and all agreed on the time. Why? And what became of the story? Did anything happen or was it all a dream?

The Solution.
Patiently, and with exemplary thoroughness, William Sears set out to solve this mystery. In Thief in the Night he presents his fully detailed “conduct of the case” in an easy style which enthuses the reader with the excitement of the chase. The solution to which all the clues lead comes as a tremendous challenge.

This is a mystery story with a difference: the mystery is a real one, and of vital importance to every human being. The author presents the evidence in The case of the missing millennium in such a way that you can solve it for yourself.

Christ returns
In fact, our press has been scooped by over a century. You will find here considerable evidence to show that when the newspapers and publications of the 1840s printed their stories headed, Return of Christ expected, they were printing not fancy, but fact, even though they were unaware of the nature of the story at the time, and were totally unable to substantiate its truth in that hour.

If what I have uncovered is the truth, then (according to the testimony of the hard-boiled newspaper editors of the West) it is the most shocking and dramatic story that anyone could possibly tell in print.

But will anyone believe me?

You are now starting where I started a few years ago on The strange case of the missing millennium.
William Sears.

William Sears, Thief in the Night
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
“In the eighth chapter of the Book of Daniel, verse thirteen, it is said: “Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain saint which spake, How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, and the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot?” Then he answered (v. 14): “Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed”; (v. 17) “But he said unto me … at the time of the end shall be the vision.” That is to say, how long will this misfortune, this ruin, this abasement and degradation last? meaning, when will be the dawn of the Manifestation? Then he answered, “Two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.” Some Answered Questions, pp. 41-42

“In Matthew, chapter 24, verse 3, Christ clearly says that what Daniel meant by this prophecy was the date of the manifestation, and this is the verse: “As He sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto Him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of Thy coming, and of the end of the world?” One of the explanations He gave them in reply was this (v. 15): “When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand).” In this answer He referred them to the eighth chapter of the Book of Daniel, saying that everyone who reads it will understand that it is this time that is spoken of. Consider how clearly the manifestation of the Báb is spoken of in the Old Testament and in the Gospel.” Some Answered Questions, pp. 42-43

From: 10: TRADITIONAL PROOFS EXEMPLIFIED FROM THE BOOK OF DANIEL

How does Muhammad fit into Daniel's prophesy? And actually 1844 points to the Bab. Is there prophesies that predict Baha'u'llah's declaration?

 

[paarsurrey]

Christ Has returned, what should have we looked for?

Are you awaiting Christ's return?

Jesus has returned, I believe, in the symbolic form of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad 1835-1908 and he has expressly mentioned that Jesus had died a natural death in the advance age of 120/125 years. Those who die, never return to this Earth literally and physically. Jesus himself believed that John the Baptist was Elijah in symbolic terms. The same way Mirza Ghulam Ahmad 1835-1908 claimed and I believe him as such, was Christ in the Second Coming.

So, I don't wait for Jesus' literal and physical return to this earth, anymore.
Others cold believe differently with sound arguments, if any. Right, please?

Regards

 

[Trailblazer]

How does Muhammad fit into Daniel's prophesy? And actually 1844 points to the Bab. Is there prophesies that predict Baha'u'llah's declaration?

I do not know how Muhammad fits in. I suggest you read that whole chapter linked above. 1844 points to the beginning of the Baha’i Cycle which was ushered in by the Bab. They were considered the “Twin Manifestations.”
There might be prophecies that predict the Declaration of Baha’u’llah, but I do not know what they are.

 

[CG Didymus]

I do not know how Muhammad fits in. I suggest you read that whole chapter linked above. 1844 points to the beginning of the Baha’i Cycle which was ushered in by the Bab. They were considered the “Twin Manifestations.”
There might be prophecies that predict the Declaration of Baha’u’llah, but I do not know what they are.

It's kind a weak link, because it would be like prophesies focusing on the coming of John the Baptist instead of Jesus. The twin manifestation and the start of a new cycle help a little, but the big date has to be the day Baha'u'llah declared.

And some strong prophesies about Muhammad would help, because his date of 622 plus the 1260 years from Revelation is used so much.

 

[Trailblazer]

It's kind a weak link, because it would be like prophesies focusing on the coming of John the Baptist instead of Jesus. The twin manifestation and the start of a new cycle help a little, but the big date has to be the day Baha'u'llah declared.

I do not think that the date Baha'u'llah declared is considered the "big date" but I am sure other Baha'is would know more about that than I do. The Baha'is on Planet Baha'i are very knowledgeable and it is a small group, in case you are ever interested in coming over there. It is right next to my forum, The Spiritual Horizon, which I started for people of all religions, no religion, and nonbelievers. Right now, I post mostly to nonbelievers on my forum.

And some strong prophesies about Muhammad would help, because his date of 622 plus the 1260 years from Revelation is used so much.

I do not know any of those but I could ask around on Planet Baha'i or on Baha'i Forums..

 

[CG Didymus]

I do not think that the date Baha'u'llah declared is considered the "big date" but I am sure other Baha'is would know more about that than I do. The Baha'is on Planet Baha'i are very knowledgeable and it is a small group, in case you are ever interested in coming over there. It is right next to my forum, The Spiritual Horizon, which I started for people of all religions, no religion, and nonbelievers. Right now, I post mostly to nonbelievers on my forum.

I do not know any of those but I could ask around on Planet Baha'i or on Baha'i Forums..

The big day in the NT is the return of Christ, not any forerunner. Every eye will see him and that day is judgement day etc. And it seems like that should be the day prophesied about. 'Cause isn't the main thing the Bab did was declare that the promised one is coming?