Creation vs evolution

[Faithofchristian]

Science is just a method of experimentation, observation, demonstration, testing and verification of repeatable results. It's the method by which we've come to learn everything we currently know about mechanisms at work in the world we live in. This information is verifiable for non-believers, Christians, Muslims, Hindus, and everybody else in between. This is universal knowledge accessible to anyone and everyone.

The Bible is a book of claims that have not been verified - many of the claims cannot even be verified. Not only that, but as you've made very clear, the Bible is only good enough for those people who already believe it. Muslims and non-believers don't blindly accept the claims of the Bible, for instance. So what good is it really, if it's claims are only valid to some people, but not to everyone?

So when you tell someone they can't use science as a source of information, you're telling that person that they are not allowed to access all the available verifiable information we've so far gleaned about our world. Which doesn't really make much sense.

What do you mean the Bible has not been verified, The bible has been verified by many scholars of the bible to be accurate.

Of course you wouldn't agree, all because those scholars are Christians, Right?

Of course you wouldn't take Christians advice about Evolution, but yet you expect Christians to take non- Christians advice about the bible.
What's up with all that.

Of course you will say, well Christians got to understand science before they can say anything about science.

Well then before non- Christians can say anything about the Bible, they got to understand the Bible, before they can say anything about the Bible.
So what goes around comes around.

Well you just proved your own point, when you have people, like yourself criticizing the bible, maybe God sees you unfit to know anything about the bible.

Where as Christians do not criticze the bible, but take in faith, what God has to say in his word.

This is why people like yourself, can not get nothing out of the Bible, all because God knows all your going to do anyway, is criticze what you don't understand.

Therefore show one scientist that will want to teach anyone, if all their going to criticize them anyway, each step of the way.

Therefore You can not teach no one anything, that can not and will not accept what is being taught and that's plain and simple.
Do you really believe that God is going to teach people who are only going to criticize him.
So do you really believe that scientist are going to waste their time, to teach someone who are only going to criticize them.
Go Figure

 

[Subduction Zone]

What do you mean the Bible has not been verified, The bible has been verified by many scholars of the bible to be accurate.

Parts of the Bible have been shown to be accurate. Parts have been shown to be wrong. You can't claim one without claiming the other if you are honest.

Of course you wouldn't agree, all because those scholars are Christians, Right?

Some were Christians, some were not, what does that have to do with anything? Once again one does not need to believe your book of myths to understand it.

Of course you wouldn't take Christians advice about Evolution, but yet you expect Christians to take non- Christians advice about the bible.
What's up with all that.

Why not? There are many Christians that accept the fact of evolution. In fact most Christians accept the theory of evolution. And no one is giving you "advice" about the Bible. We are merely trying to educate you.

Of course you will say, well Christians got to understand science before they can say anything about science.

No, once again, many Christians can and do understand science.

Well then before non- Christians can say anything about the Bible, they got to understand the Bible, before they can say anything about the Bible.
So what goes around comes around.

And we do. In fact many non-Christians became non-Christians because they understood the Bible. The better one understands the Bible the more likely it is that one will no longer be a Christian.

Well you just proved your own point, when you have people, like yourself criticizing the bible, maybe God sees you unfit to know anything about the bible.

So are you claiming that your God is evil now?

Where as Christians do not criticze the bible, but take in faith, what God has to say in his word.

Faith is not a valid reason for belief. One can have faith in the Bible, in the Koran, in the Vedas or even in Harry Potter. They are all just as valid if you use "faith".

This is why people like yourself, can not get nothing out of the Bible, all because God knows all your going to do anyway, is criticze what you don't understand.

What makes you think that non-Christians cannot get anything out of the Bible? Even though it is largely a book of myths does not mean that it is worthless. One merely needs to keep it in prospective.

Therefore show one scientist that will want to teach anyone, if all their going to criticize them anyway, each step of the way.

What? One more time in English please. Scientists can support their claims. You do not appear to be able to support yours.

Therefore You can not teach no one anything, that can not and will not accept what is being taught and that's plain and simple.
Do you really believe that God is going to teach people who are only going to criticize him.
So do you really believe that scientist are going to waste their time, to teach someone who are only going to criticize them.
Go Figure

Scientists do not make unfounded assumptions about others, and here you are claiming that your God is evil again. Are you sure that you want to do that?

 

[Faithofchristian]

You're the one who is actually saying that because you're the one claiming the prophecy hasn't been fulfilled yet.

king Nebuchadrezzar of Babylon nor did Alexander the Great completely destory Tyrus.
What is taking place in Ezekiel 26, is king Nebuchadrezzar will come to destroy the walls of Tyrus.which means the wall are Tyruse sea ports. By destroying these walls, ships can not load or unload their cargo. The walls stretched out into the sea just far enough so that ships could load and unload their cargo.

Then after king Nebuchadrezzar of Babylon destroyed the walls of Tyrus, Then came Alexander the Great and destroyed Tyrus, but not completely.

Look what Tyrus once was, it is no longer a great sea post for people to trade with, as it once was.

Look think of some of the great sea ports of to day, now think if anyone one them were destroyed, what that would do to the world's trade maket.
Now seeing Tyrus was a world trade center back then and to have it's walls destroyed. It destroyed Tyrus as a great sea port, but did not destroy Tyrus completely.
All it did was destroy Tyrus as a great sea post and that's all it did.

Notice Ezekiel 26:17--"And they shall take up lamentation ( morning) for you, and say to you, How are you destroyed, that was inhabited of seafaring men, the great city, which was strong in the sea, she and her inhabitants , which cause their terror to be on all that haunt it"

You see what Tyrus once was a seafaring for men, to do their trading there, is now no more a great sea trading Post. As it once was.

You see, all because of Tyrus out spoke against Jerusalem, now God is going to finish off Tyrus once in for all.
Notice Ezekiel 26:21--"I will make you a terror, and you shalt be no more: through you be sought for, Yet shalt you never be found again, Saith the Lord God"

You see where Tyrus once was a great sea trading Post, it will never be found again as it once was. A great sea trading Post again.

Now to completely to destroy Tyrus, God will at his Judgment, will bring Tyrus to its final destruction.

Now here's something to think about, Seeing how God is going to finish off, to completely destroy Tyrus for good, for speaking out against Jerusalem.
What do you think God is going to do to those Nations that rise up against Jerusalem during the tribulation ?

Revelation 20:9--" and they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city( Jerusalem) and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them"

 

[Subduction Zone]

king Nebuchadrezzar of Babylon nor did Alexander the Great completely destory Tyrus.
What is taking place in Ezekiel 26, is king Nebuchadrezzar will come to destroy the walls of Tyrus.which means the wall are Tyruse sea ports. By destroying these walls, ships can not load or unload their cargo. The walls stretched out into the sea just far enough so that ships could load and unload their cargo.

That is not what the verses say. Would you like to go over them? I can help you with your inability to understand that work.

Then after king Nebuchadrezzar of Babylon destroyed the walls of Tyrus, Then came Alexander the Great and destroyed Tyrus, but not completely.

And it does not matter. The prophecy was about Nebuchadnezzar (please note spelling, you could always call him "Nebby" as I like to at times, Nebby and Zeke, much easier). You have already admitted that the prophecy failed.

Look what Tyrus once was, it is no longer a great sea post for people to trade with, as it once was.

So what? Do you know why it was so important? Situations change. Changes as a result are not a fulfillment of prophecy.

Look think of some of the great sea ports of to day, now think if anyone one them were destroyed, what that would do to the world's trade maket.
Now seeing Tyrus was a world trade center back then and to have it's walls destroyed. It destroyed Tyrus as a great sea port, but did not destroy Tyrus completely.
All it did was destroy Tyrus as a great sea post and that's all it did.

But it didn't. Tyre was back to business as usual shortly after Nebby's visit and again after Alex left. You appear to be totally ignorant of the history of Tyre. And the walls held against Nebby. He utterly failed in his attack on the island.

Notice Ezekiel 26:17--"And they shall take up lamentation ( morning) for you, and say to you, How are you destroyed, that was inhabited of seafaring men, the great city, which was strong in the sea, she and her inhabitants , which cause their terror to be on all that haunt it"

What were you told about taking verses out of context? That is supposedly what people would say about Tyre. They never made those laments. It also goes on to say this:

"“This is what the Sovereign Lord says: When I make you a desolate city, like cities no longer inhabited, and when I bring the ocean depths in the land of the living I will bring you to a horrible end and you will be no more. You will be sought, but you will never again be found, declares the Sovereign Lord.”

That never happened.

You see what Tyrus once was a seafaring for men, to do their trading there, is now no more a great sea trading Post. As it once was.

You see, all because of Tyrus out spoke against Jerusalem, now God is going to finish off Tyrus once in for all.
Notice Ezekiel 26:21--"I will make you a terror, and you shalt be no more: through you be sought for, Yet shalt you never be found again, Saith the Lord God"

You see where Tyrus once was a great sea trading Post, it will never be found again as it once was. A great sea trading Post again.

That was not due to attacks. That was more due to economics and changing times. You do not even know what product that Tyre made that caused the city to be so desirable.

Now to completely to destroy Tyrus, God will at his Judgment, will bring Tyrus to its final destruction.

Now here's something to think about, Seeing how God is going to finish off, to completely destroy Tyrus for good, for speaking out against Jerusalem.
What do you think God is going to do to those Nations that rise up against Jerusalem during the tribulation ?

Why would he bother? The attack on Tyre was supposed to be due to how its king treated Zeke, he can't suffer. Those people are long gone. You are reinterpreting that prophecy in a nonsensical manner.

Revelation 20:9--" and they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city( Jerusalem) and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them"

Sorry, wrong book. Try again.

 

[ArtieE]

It was Zeke's and Nebby's future, our past. I can see that you did not understand the prophesy. I can help you with that.

I know it was Zeke's and Nebby's future our past. I thought that Faithofchristian was saying that it was our future which is why I was asking him.

 

[ArtieE]

Now to completely to destroy Tyrus, God will at his Judgment, will bring Tyrus to its final destruction.

Are you talking about this city?
Tyre, Lebanon - Wikipedia
If it is, can you tell us why the modern city of Tyre deserves to be destroyed by your god? Just for "speaking out against Jerusalem"?

 

[`mud]

Cold sweat attempt at what you two or three dudes are talking about !
When these guys, year 036 AB, approximately !
Prophesied that Ole N was going to invade Tyre and reap vengeance on them !
But that was in the future to them and it won't happen until the future ?
But....it's been 2018-36 to happen, and it still didn't happen ?
Is that's a way of saying what's intended to happen didn't start yet ?
If not....I still don't !

 

[Faithofchristian]

Are you talking about this city?
Tyre, Lebanon - Wikipedia
If it is, can you tell us why the modern city of Tyre deserves to be destroyed by your god? Just for "speaking out against Jerusalem"?

Who exactly said anything about the modern city of Tyrus ?

 

[`mud]

Can you hear those sparrows ??

 

[ArtieE]

Who exactly said anything about the modern city of Tyrus ?

You... "Now to completely to destroy Tyrus, God will at his Judgment, will bring Tyrus to its final destruction.

Now here's something to think about, Seeing how God is going to finish off, to completely destroy Tyrus for good, for speaking out against Jerusalem." Isn't Tyrus the same as the modern city of Tyre?

 

[Faithofchristian]

You... "Now to completely to destroy Tyrus, God will at his Judgment, will bring Tyrus to its final destruction.

Now here's something to think about, Seeing how God is going to finish off, to completely destroy Tyrus for good, for speaking out against Jerusalem." Isn't Tyrus the same as the modern city of Tyre?

Nope Tyrus that is being spoken of is the spirit of Tyrus and not literal since.

I did not say God will destroy the modern city of Tyrus.
Do you know what is Spiritual and what is not Spiritual.
When God destroy's Tyrus, this being the Spirit of Tyrus. And not in the literal since.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Nope Tyrus that is being spoken of is the spirit of Tyrus and not literal since.

I did not say God will destroy the modern city of Tyrus.
Do you know what is Spiritual and what is not Spiritual.
When God destroy's Tyrus, this being the Spirit of Tyrus. And not in the literal since.

There is no reason to believe that. In fact the prophecy makes no sense at all if you take that tack. Worse yet you are admitting that prophecy is worthless by doing so. You are willing to reinterpret scripture after the fact to make it match history if you want to claim that a prophecy is and you reinterpret scripture if a prophecy fails. By not having a reasonable test to prophecy you make it worthless. By your standards every religion has fulfilled prophecy.

 

[ArtieE]

There is no reason to believe that. In fact the prophecy makes no sense at all if you take that tack. Worse yet you are admitting that prophecy is worthless by doing so. You are willing to reinterpret scripture after the fact to make it match history if you want to claim that a prophecy is and you reinterpret scripture if a prophecy fails. By not having a reasonable test to prophecy you make it worthless. By your standards every religion has fulfilled prophecy.

Fulfilled Prophecies of The Holy Quran | Islam Ahmadiyya
The Prophecies of the Quran - The Religion of Islam

 

[SkepticThinker]

Well then what are you complaining about then.
If I believe in Creation and you believe in Evolution, so what's the big deal then.

 

[SkepticThinker]

king Nebuchadrezzar of Babylon nor did Alexander the Great completely destory Tyrus.
What is taking place in Ezekiel 26, is king Nebuchadrezzar will come to destroy the walls of Tyrus.which means the wall are Tyruse sea ports. By destroying these walls, ships can not load or unload their cargo. The walls stretched out into the sea just far enough so that ships could load and unload their cargo.

Then after king Nebuchadrezzar of Babylon destroyed the walls of Tyrus, Then came Alexander the Great and destroyed Tyrus, but not completely.

Look what Tyrus once was, it is no longer a great sea post for people to trade with, as it once was.

Look think of some of the great sea ports of to day, now think if anyone one them were destroyed, what that would do to the world's trade maket.
Now seeing Tyrus was a world trade center back then and to have it's walls destroyed. It destroyed Tyrus as a great sea port, but did not destroy Tyrus completely.
All it did was destroy Tyrus as a great sea post and that's all it did.

Notice Ezekiel 26:17--"And they shall take up lamentation ( morning) for you, and say to you, How are you destroyed, that was inhabited of seafaring men, the great city, which was strong in the sea, she and her inhabitants , which cause their terror to be on all that haunt it"

You see what Tyrus once was a seafaring for men, to do their trading there, is now no more a great sea trading Post. As it once was.

You see, all because of Tyrus out spoke against Jerusalem, now God is going to finish off Tyrus once in for all.
Notice Ezekiel 26:21--"I will make you a terror, and you shalt be no more: through you be sought for, Yet shalt you never be found again, Saith the Lord God"

You see where Tyrus once was a great sea trading Post, it will never be found again as it once was. A great sea trading Post again.

Now to completely to destroy Tyrus, God will at his Judgment, will bring Tyrus to its final destruction.

Now here's something to think about, Seeing how God is going to finish off, to completely destroy Tyrus for good, for speaking out against Jerusalem.
What do you think God is going to do to those Nations that rise up against Jerusalem during the tribulation ?

Revelation 20:9--" and they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city( Jerusalem) and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them"

So then the prophecy was not fulfilled. Thanks for confirming what I already knew.

 

[SkepticThinker]

What do you mean the Bible has not been verified, The bible has been verified by many scholars of the bible to be accurate.

Every claim in the Bible has not been verified. Many of them, like a guy walking on water, can never be verified. Sorry, that’s just the way it is.

Of course you wouldn't agree, all because those scholars are Christians, Right?

I don’t care who they are. They cannot verify things which can’t be verified.

Of course you wouldn't take Christians advice about Evolution, but yet you expect Christians to take non- Christians advice about the bible.

Of course you will say, well Christians got to understand science before they can say anything about science.

I’m not sure what this means. Christian advice about evolution? Plenty of Christians accept evolution so I don’t know where you’re going with that.

I would expect Christians to understand the same things about how to verify claims that anybody else in the world understands. I expect that Christians can understand just as much as anybody else can about how the scientific method works, and why it’s more reliable than just assuming that everything in a book is reliable Truth without even bothering to check it, simply because the book says it’s reliable. And if the information contained within it is reliable at all, then it’s reliable to EVERYBODY, not just some people who already believe it to begin with.

Well then before non- Christians can say anything about the Bible, they got to understand the Bible, before they can say anything about the Bible.

To understand what the Bible says, one needs to be able to read and understand words. Being able to understand what words say doesn’t automatically make those words reliable though.

So what goes around comes around.

I have no idea what you’re referring to here.

Well you just proved your own point, when you have people, like yourself criticizing the bible, maybe God sees you unfit to know anything about the bible.

Maybe. Though that attitude doesn’t make much sense if we’re talking about a God that wants people to know “He” exists and wants to be worshiped.


Or maybe there is no god(s).

But let’s be clear here. This whole “only Christians who already believe everything the Bible says can interpret and understand the Bible” is pure nonsense. Anyone who can read words can understand what the Bible says.

Where as Christians do not criticze the bible, but take in faith, what God has to say in his word.

In other words, you don’t care if the claims of the Bible are actually reliable or verifiable. You’re going to believe them anyway. And there’s the problem.

This is why people like yourself, can not get nothing out of the Bible, all because God knows all your going to do anyway, is criticze what you don't understand.

I can get plenty from the Bible. I just blindly believe that it’s true because it says it’s true. And I’ve yet to see any evidence at all that it has some Divine Author.

Therefore show one scientist that will want to teach anyone, if all their going to criticize them anyway, each step of the way.

Most scientists would welcome such a challenge. Criticism and challenge to existing beliefs is part and parcel of scientific inquiry and scrutiny.

Therefore You can not teach no one anything, that can not and will not accept what is being taught and that's plain and simple.

I’m sorry but this doesn’t make any sense to me.

Do you really believe that God is going to teach people who are only going to criticize him.

Why wouldn’t He? Do you really mean to tell me that the all-knowing, all-powerful creator of the universe can’t take a little bit of a challenge? Pfft.

So do you really believe that scientist are going to waste their time, to teach someone who are only going to criticize them.

Go Figure

Yes, absolutely. Why wouldn’t they? They’re not as fragile as your God apparently is.

 

[Faithofchristian]

So then the prophecy was not fulfilled. Thanks for confirming what I already knew.

Prophecy was fulfilled when king Nebuchadrezzar of Babylon went and destroyed the walls of Tyrus and then years later Alexander the great over took Tyrus.

That part of the Prophecy was fulfilled.

 

[Faithofchristian]

Every claim in the Bible has not been verified. Many of them, like a guy walking on water, can never be verified. Sorry, that’s just the way it is.



I don’t care who they are. They cannot verify things which can’t be verified.



I’m not sure what this means. Christian advice about evolution? Plenty of Christians accept evolution so I don’t know where you’re going with that.

I would expect Christians to understand the same things about how to verify claims that anybody else in the world understands. I expect that Christians can understand just as much as anybody else can about how the scientific method works, and why it’s more reliable than just assuming that everything in a book is reliable Truth without even bothering to check it, simply because the book says it’s reliable. And if the information contained within it is reliable at all, then it’s reliable to EVERYBODY, not just some people who already believe it to begin with.



To understand what the Bible says, one needs to be able to read and understand words. Being able to understand what words say doesn’t automatically make those words reliable though.



I have no idea what you’re referring to here.



Maybe. Though that attitude doesn’t make much sense if we’re talking about a God that wants people to know “He” exists and wants to be worshiped.


Or maybe there is no god(s).

But let’s be clear here. This whole “only Christians who already believe everything the Bible says can interpret and understand the Bible” is pure nonsense. Anyone who can read words can understand what the Bible says.



In other words, you don’t care if the claims of the Bible are actually reliable or verifiable. You’re going to believe them anyway. And there’s the problem.



I can get plenty from the Bible. I just blindly believe that it’s true because it says it’s true. And I’ve yet to see any evidence at all that it has some Divine Author.




Most scientists would welcome such a challenge. Criticism and challenge to existing beliefs is part and parcel of scientific inquiry and scrutiny.





I’m sorry but this doesn’t make any sense to me.




Why wouldn’t He? Do you really mean to tell me that the all-knowing, all-powerful creator of the universe can’t take a little bit of a challenge? Pfft.


Yes, absolutely. Why wouldn’t they? They’re not as fragile as your God apparently is.

Every claim in the Bible has been verified.

Seeing how yourself has fulfilled Prophecy.
That was given a little over 2000 years ago.
But then you wouldn't have a clue how your doing that.
Which is very funny and amazing.

 

[ChristineM]

Every claim in the Bible has been verified.
....

That's a bold and and factually untrue claim.

Adam and Eve
Gods genocide of every living being except a few close buddies and about 56 million animals
......
Walking on water
Rising from the dead.

With lots replaced by dots

 

[SkepticThinker]

Every claim in the Bible has been verified.

Seeing how yourself has fulfilled Prophecy.
That was given a little over 2000 years ago.
But then you wouldn't have a clue how your doing that.
Which is very funny and amazing.

I'm sorry but every claim in the Bible has not been verified. Just saying or believing it doesn't make it true. I pointed out a claim earlier that has definitely not been verified, nor is it even verifiable.

And you just admitted that the prophecy about Tyre was not fulfilled. Making up just-so stories after the story has long ago been told doesn't cut it. It's clear to me that you aren't actually interested in what is actually true. Well, I am.