Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
That would mean my practice is not a valid practice because, although it is respected by bahai how I see it in one way, in actuality, according to Bahaullah it is something totally different?
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How are these Great Beings explained?
- Thread starter loverofhumanity
- Start date
That would mean my practice is not a valid practice because, although it is respected by bahai how I see it in one way, in actuality, according to Bahaullah it is something totally different?
oldbadger
Skanky Old Mongrel!
No.........
Have you really researched 'Right of God'?
I've had to prepare the following and copy-paste it to save time......
No poor laws there. Bahai just cannot have any that can match the Mosaic laws. I've already told you this. But the double-message of Bahai rings true about 'Right of God' payments. Let me show you just some............
But.... oh dear.....
And a little research produces the truth about its real purposes, certainly not to assist any poor.....
........................ I don't think so............... read on
Double Think................
And lastly.........
here it comes again, that 'spiritual' thing that no Bahai has yet managed to explain.
and..............
Spiritual............. yeah, really?
If any want to peruse some real poor laws from the OT, just ask and I'll list a few. Genuine poor laws for the cohesion of the preople, and as imoportant as all the other laws. Bahai just does not provide such consistent focus.imo.
Carlita, I can not answer that for you.
I can only give what has been said and let your heart answer those questions for your own self.
If what Baha'u'llah has said is correct guidance, that is the first place to look for answers.
The first two Hidden words give this advice;
First the heart;
"O SON OF SPIRIT! My first counsel is this: Possess a pure, kindly and radiant heart, that thine may be a sovereignty ancient, imperishable and everlasting."
Then your own reasoning, your own choice;
"O SON OF SPIRIT! The best beloved of all things in My sight is Justice; turn not away therefrom if thou desirest Me, and neglect it not that I may confide in thee. By its aid thou shalt see with thine own eyes and not through the eyes of others, and shalt know of thine own knowledge and not through the knowledge of thy neighbor. Ponder this in thy heart; how it behooveth thee to be. Verily justice is My gift to thee and the sign of My loving-kindness. Set it then before thine eyes."
Regards Tony
oldbadger
Skanky Old Mongrel!
Oh dear..........
Just asking the same question that I would ask in any Probate enquiry...... was there a will?
I used to work probate cases in this area, mostly for foreign Probate solicitors who could not travel here or send their own tecs, and the dirt that I used to dig up....!
I can't tell how many times solicitors appropriated property belonging to the benefactors, simply because it could not be accounted for.............. and in connection with missing wills you must call me Mr Skeptic.
And yes, the family squabbles were.....squabbly!
Do note my post above this one re 'poor laws'.
Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
It isnt a question for me. Im using myself because I dont understand the nature of your faith through generalizing humanity but not referring to individual people who make it up.
(By the way. I do read your post fast because I read it during my reply rather than before. I understand it easier than going by this bad memory of mine)
In other words...
Non bahai practice is invalid because they see their practice one way when in actually according to bahaullah its supposed to be seen another?
Edit.
Non bahai view of practice are invalid because they (the people) dont believe their faith has the same god or a god in it?
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siti
Well-Known Member
Indeed we don't know for certain how old she was - its possible she may have been as young as six but there seems to be fairly clear evidence that she had not reached puberty when she was married - early Muslim scholars (not long after Muhammad's time) apparently went to some lengths to make it clear that although she was unquestionably (even by their standards) still a child at marriage, she had reached puberty (although she might still have been as young as 9 or 10) when the marriage was consummated. I don't think it is a great surprise that having been both indoctrinated and impregnated by the charismatic leader of a new and rapidly growing religion before reaching the teenage years, she found herself in exemplary 'submission' to the will of Allah. Do you? Culture aside, don't you think an actual "Manifestation of God" ought to have known better - even if it wasn't part of the revelation to the rest of humanity in that age?
Anyway, as usual, your apologetics miss the point which was not to condemn 7th century Arabic/Islamic culture but to illustrate that it is paradoxical (given Baha'i religious heritage) for a Baha'i to dismiss another religion on the grounds that its marriage customs seem a little off beam.
Shoghi effendi fulfilled the requirements of a will.
He had no possesions to distribute and could not appoint a successor, thus did not need a document for this.
Regards Tony
siti
Well-Known Member
I hope (against hope) that you are right. I fear that they (our kids) might just 'throw out the baby with the bath water' and fail to have any appreciation for the real "greater reality" whatever it turns out to be and however it manifests itself to them; and fail to acknowledge sufficiently the "spiritual need" that is - as far as I can see - part of our inherited biology.
Religion has been part of the human psyche - possibly even for longer than we have been recognizably human. That fact in itself renders the so-called 'great' religions of the world inadequate (at best) to meeting the 'spiritual' needs of our grandchildren's generation. But it also means that we can't - try as we might - simply throw it out it without something to fill the gap in our neuropsychological lives that abandoning the faith of our fathers leaves.
I dunno - maybe what we need is less of a re-ligion that links us to the ignorance of our past, and more of a pro-ligion (if that's even a word) that links us sensibly to the (yet to be revealed) scientific knowledge of the future???
The world is certainly getting smaller - religious unity maybe a far-fetched dream - perhaps even an undesirable outcome even if it could be achieved - but 'harmonious' global relationships among the burgeoning human family have never been more imperative.
I think (perhaps) some form of 'rational religion' that genuinely respects differing religious - and irreligious - insights might be just what the doctor ordered.
Baha'i is not that. But it does seem that even intelligent people of our generation mistake it for that - and our thinking sometimes seems still to have unwarranted influence over the minds of our progeny. I hope I'm wrong.
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I note a poor understanding of the case of Shoghi Effendi.
Again this is available, I need not explain it here.
Regards Tony
Sorry busy and off to work.
No they are not invalid, we will stick to the analogy they have not got in date yeast.
Regards Tony
Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
oldbadger
Skanky Old Mongrel!
Siti, I believe that they will do all of those things, yet it will be alright, despite the fact that we in our unscientific arrogance have made the world dirty for them, all in less than 300 years, and we still feel proud about our achievements. It would have been better had we remained far back in the stone age at a time when we really were spiritual.
With regards to our children we have no rights. Kahlil Gibran writes it down well:
For life goes not backward nor tarries with yesterday.
You are the bows from which your children as living arrows are sent forth.......
(...to times where we may not go....)
In some ways I hope that science will take our children's children out and away to new places.
In other ways I hope that children will learn to despise the word as a lie, because it produces so much badness as well.
People scream about the wonders of travel, or... or... medecine, and quote our achievements. It's true that my wife lives because of science, I really would not want to go on without her, but just wait until developed bacteria let loose upon us and then let's see how clever we have been.
The problem is, that if we found and established a perfect harmonius global society and system, that people would take hold of it and within a couple of decades it would be a hell. But our contentious and confronatational natures will save us from that, and the wheel will go round, and come back round, just as it does for, say, our skylark (or any other) population. It ebbs and flows...........
You see, I'm a Deist.......
But Siti, that would be something that we dreamed up! We need another Immerser, or a Buddha, coming out of nothingness and calling out their message to the world, a message that goes viral throughout, grasping the imaginations of..... our children's children. No clever gambits, no volumes of bull...... the real message, so simple and clear than any can have it.
That's it....... it will be so simple, so honest, and true.
The potency of the old has been transfered to the new.
Man has put his own blemishes on the mirror of his heart which clouds the potency of the intent of the message they love and try to put into practice.
Quick example, Christ said Love one Another, the potency of this is to embrace all Humanity under One God as if they were your own Kin. Put mans ideas into it and one idea has become that all are Lost except Christains and belief in a Doctrine made of man.
There are a lot of examples we could do with this anology.
The intent of Christs Message has been lost in regards to His all embracing Love.
Baha'u'llah has brought it back.
Regards Tony
Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
Can you explain it at an individual level?
Generalizations "man", "humanity" does not help cause I cant guess by reading scriptures.
Also. I noticed the topic has changed.
Is John's view invalid because he interprets his own believe differently than how bahaullah defines it?
But Siti, that would be something that we dreamed up! We need another Immerser, or a Buddha, coming out of nothingness and calling out their message to the world, a message that goes viral throughout, grasping the imaginations of..... our children's children. No clever gambits, no volumes of bull...... the real message, so simple and clear than any can have it.
That's it....... it will be so simple, so honest, and true.
You ask for another Great Being, but reject those that have already come and at the same time expect your children will not be predudiced by your truth.
Strange.
Regards Tony
Yes, but no doubt for those remaining, they've reconciled and come to some sort of mutual consensus one way or another. All groups and faiths have controversy, although some folks like to portray their organisation as pure, peerless, and without any controversy from beginning to now. Clearly that wasn't the case here.
In dharmic faiths the seat of authority is passed to the most able, and not by bloodlines. But then there are no bloodlines, like in Catholicism today.
siti
Well-Known Member
I'm not sure what you are saying here...do you mean if its just something we dreamed up its bad - or good? From my POV I reckon acknowledging that religion is 'something we dreamed up' is the first step on the road to humanity's spiritual recovery. Maybe that's what our generation should be doing - some kind of 'religionists anonymous' group therapy where we sit in a circle and openly acknowledge our addiction to religious absurdity and confess to ourselves that, yes, it really was all just something that sprang from the minds of men. I think that, so far, is entirely consonant with deism.
But then again, is that a bad thing? Is it a bad thing that some people had very vivid (possibly psychotic) visions of the greater reality 'personified'? It is one way of looking at it - poetic perhaps - but nonetheless potentially 'enlightening' (whatever that means) - as long as we don't imagine that its the only way of observing the multi-faceted multi-peaked mountain that is the, as yet barely explored, domain of reality? And as long as we don't imagine that our particular 'location' provides a view that is inherently or essentially any more (or less) 'true' than another.
Many viewpoints, many peaks, many ways to approach them, and many ways to fall down too - but the mountain is still the same 'one' and - despite earlier reports to the contrary - it ain't gonna move for us, we have to find our own (sometimes painful) way to it. (Proverbs of Rational Spirituality - chapter 1 verse 1 - actually its just something I dreamed up - although Francis Bacon beat me to it by a few hundred years: "Mahomet cald the Hill to come to him. And when the Hill stood still, he was neuer a whit abashed, but said; If the Hill will not come to Mahomet, Mahomet wil go to the hil.").
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To those that wish to look at this, the evidence is available.
I see no need to defend unfounded unsupported comments.
Regards Tony
An interpretarion is given that does not reflect the intent of Baha'u'llah or of His Message, it reflects the intent of the poster.
Regards Tony
We put our own ideas above Gods.
We become lovers of self by thinking all the good we do comes from our own human self.
Regards Tony