Obviously this wasn't the case in this circumstance. It was someone being sneaky. How would feel if your child came home and told you that Baha'u'llah is a false prophet. (That's what happens in Iran, I'm sure.)
-
Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:- Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
- Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
- Access to private conversations with other members.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!
How are these Great Beings explained?
- Thread starter loverofhumanity
- Start date
Again ,,, hundreds of thousands of people believe that stuff, with no Baha'i' influence at all. The idea of non-violence, etc. has been in Hindu scriptures and teachings long long before Baha'u'llah. Give some credit where credit is due. It's one thing to claim infallibility but another to claim uniqueness of message. I knew all that stuff for 50 years before I ever heard of your prophet.
Which by no means means that they have been corrupted. One man's opinion doesn't mean that much. It does to Baha'i's, yes.
I am sure those accusations, if brought up in court would be found to be false.
It is not Justice to read one side of a story, especially if the one side is hostile to change.
Regards Tony
You would then accuse Jesus the Christ as the greatest of insulters.
He told all the Jews that His Message was in the Scriptures. That they were wrong.
It is that simple. If Baha'u'llah is right, where does that place your comments?
Again do not take it personal, we either learn from each experience, which is good or we do not learn and keep repeating our mistaken ideas.
If Abdul'baha spoke it and wrote it, it is from Baha'u'llah. That is the Covernant written by Baha'u'llah and it is passed on to Shoghi Effendi and the Universal House of Justice.
God chooses how to unfold His Revelations. God knows the hearts of all men and how to test them all in the best of ways. Belief has to be earned and once earned will be always weighed in sincerity.
To reach our full potential one must be prepared. For a base metal to be forged into the final product it needs the furnace and the hammer.
Regards to all, Tony
Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
No. I've never been insulted by christ. If that be the case, I'd never taken the sacraments. I never experienced him as spirit as anyone harmful or anything like that. He insulted people who were disobeying god. He helped the people who either did not know god or have been following god. "God so loved the world...." Don't think that's an insult.
Judaism and Christianity are two different religions. I don't see right and wrong. If I did, I'd be just as you and other Bahai, Christian, and other abrahamic faith that see things in black and white god or else. I mean, people give up their only child just to worship god. I really don't know a proper word to call it.
It doesn't matter if you're right or wrong (read above). It matters how you express your opinions and beliefs. If you don't mind insulting other people, so be. Why defend yourself if go told you I was wrong or something? You're confusing me.
Eh. Like I said, and like you said, I see differences, I learn from differences, I talk by experiences, and I am not a sacred-book person. You see similarities, you said you choose not to see differences, you literally disregard my experiences and even when I put it in an analogy made light of it, then say don't take it personal while promoting peace for humanity.
If you were like some Christians that said god or else and didn't promote peace among humanity outside of the brothers and sisters of christ, then I' "get it." Your faith and what you all are saying are both a walking contradiction.
You don't have to believe me, but I'd like you to learn from me from time to time. All I hear is Bahai-Bahai-Bahai.
The only "being" I'd consider great, though he considered himself mear human, is The Buddha. Christ and Muhammad submitted themselves to god. I don't see greatness in submission. Krishna is god. I don't believe in a being or human that becomes god. That makes no sense. So I don't believe in manifestations.
If you don't want to learn from me, so be. But it would be nice to have a discussion rather than a one-sided conversation. Just sayin'
I don't know. I'm not a Vaishnavite. But I do know Vaishnavites consider Krishna God. Not sure if they consider his words as infallible, or just wise.
I wasn't there, so I wouldn't know. All I know is that evangelism has caused more harm than good in India. So in general, Hindus are wary ... for good reasons. When a brother or sister gets converted, and then come around insulting you and your faith, well, that's not exactly harmony.
Then this is a great step to take. Read what was actually taught by the Great Beings. Conversations can then have foundations in their meanings and not hearsay of men.
There can be no progress unless Humanity does take up this challenge, to know the Truth by their own search of all scriptures.
Regards Tony
That is the good position to take if we are considering posting one side to a story.
Regards Tony
Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
Woah. You just went right over my post. 
From what you guys quoted, what I read in the bible (the whole bible), and what I read from the suttas, these people are not manifestations.
But how do you have a conversation with people you belittle as men?
More belittlement. I don't get it, honestly. You feel Vinakaya doesn't know his own "scriptures"? You don't think Adrian knows christian scriptures and his faith as a christian and bahai? You dont think I know scriptures based on my experiences with christ?
You cannot have peace among humanity when you don't trust the people you want peace with.
From what you guys quoted, what I read in the bible (the whole bible), and what I read from the suttas, these people are not manifestations.
But how do you have a conversation with people you belittle as men?
More belittlement. I don't get it, honestly. You feel Vinakaya doesn't know his own "scriptures"? You don't think Adrian knows christian scriptures and his faith as a christian and bahai? You dont think I know scriptures based on my experiences with christ?
You cannot have peace among humanity when you don't trust the people you want peace with.
Of course. That's what pioneering is. You can go ahead and call it by another name, but conversion is always an agenda, and we all know it.
But as to the ethics, first hand, I know it's quite variable from place to place and individual as well. Some individuals are more willing to go further than others. I taught in a public school, and when confronted with Christian propaganda. some teachers would cease and desist, recognising they might be breaking the law, while others would move more underground about it. We withdrew one of our own children from a Christian teacher's class, (in a public school) after complaints to the principal were in vain. My girl came home bawling a few times because the teacher had a habit of praising Jesus, while belittling other religions, all in public school. Things have changed a lot in the last 20 years though.
In India its even more complex, because 'greasing the palm' is such a large factor. That place operates far differently than Canada or Australia. I can't see why people would make such protests about it, if absolutely nothing was happening. A few of my Sri lankan friends have shared how the Catholic nuns would teach their students to spit at the Hindu temples while walking past.
Yes the school in question was a Baha'i' school, I think, and wiser people probably should have reconsidered their decision to send their kids there if they didn't like it. Perhaps they didn't realise just how Baha'i' it was.
oldbadger
Skanky Old Mongrel!
Oh...... again!
Many Christians build much false doctrine and dogma from Paul's (and others') letters, declaring that Jesus, being God, ordained Paul, prophets and other apostles to deliver the Divine words of God.
In this way Christians can, if they wish, still accept SLAVERY as good, even! They can rant against gays and all manner of rubbish, because of Paul's (and other's) NT writings.
And now it happens again (not the slavery bit, I hope).
Belief has to be earned?
I have never heard anything like that before.
I've heard that Heaven has to be earned, I've heard that salvation is a freely dispensed goft by the grace of God, but belief.... earned?
Rhetoric like this is..... just rhetoric.
What you are suggesting could be interpreted as 'truth is unavailable to the child', or 'simpletons cannot know the way.'
In my experience the most intellectual people can make the most stupid mistakes.
Put out the forge. Take the hammer down to the boot fair. Truth is truth.......
Never be sure, Tony.
Community building with virtues and service as the base, is the aim. Faith in hearts are all God's to give.
This is the First time a Covernant has been so clear. This is a glorious day we live in. No longer is there doubt about the accuracy of the Word or its Interpretation.
Yes it was an interesting point found in the Writings. Faith is always a gift from God who gives it as God so chooses, but there is a trigger. This is that quote;
"...Be thankful to God for having enabled you to recognise His Cause. Whoever has received this blessing must, prior to his acceptance, have performed some deed which though he himself was unaware of its character, was ordained by God as a means whereby he has been guided to find and embrace the Truth. As to those who have remained deprived of such blessing, their acts alone have hindered them from recognising the truth of this Revelation."
(Bahá’u’lláh, The Dawnbreakers, p. 586)
Regards to all Tony
Ha ha, never say never either
You are right, it is fair to consider as when it is us humans, we are prone to not doing it correctly all the time.
I have long ago found that no person accepts what they do not want to.
I will say I am not a fan of Rhui in the teaching field. I see it great as a deepening tool for those that choose to consider Baha'u'llah, I am uncomfortable to use it the way it is worded for general teaching.
In the end I let my feelings go, as the Rhui has support from the Universal House of Justice...I have Faith what they support will have a benefit we can not appreciate until time unfolds the wisdom.
I have been confirmed this is so with the past Universal House of Justice Decisions and advice they have offerd to date.
Regards Tony
oldbadger
Skanky Old Mongrel!
No Tony......
The laws of Moses, the 507 of the 613 (less the 96 sacrificial rules) have to be the absolutely most clear Covenant ever written down. Every single one can be shown to either strengthen, protect, secure, cohese or support the Israelite preople into becoming an invincible nation among others. Quite amazing............ and they are clear as day. Bahauallah's writings, changed or adapted by Abdul Baha, Shogi Effendi and successive UHJs could not match the 613 which were ideal back then.
Bahai is not what it claims to be, imo.
Oh dear....... If a Bahai World ever came about, government officials and forces could treat the unbelievers as having AUTOMATICALLY been so wicked as to not deserve to have seen the Bahai truth.
It's an Orwellian World of double think, but you may have to be outside of it to see it.
Ha ha, never say never either
You are right, it is fair to consider as when it is us humans, we are prone to not doing it correctly all the time.
I have long ago found that no person accepts what they do not want to.
I will say I am not a fan of Rhui in the teaching field. I see it great as a deepening tool for those that choose to consider Baha'u'llah, I am uncomfortable to use it the way it is worded for general teaching.
In the end I let my feelings go, as the Rhui has support from the Universal House of Justice...I have Faith what they support will have a benefit we can not appreciate until time unfolds the wisdom.
I have been confirmed this is so with the past Universal House of Justice Decisions and advice they have offerd to date.
Regards Tony
Much of the problem of conversion has to do with the Hindus themselves, not being more wary, not putting more money into our own schools, etc. In many ways we have made ourselves a vulnerable lot. But that all is changing too. The planet is generally becoming more tolerant and open to other views, and the nature of evangelicals is less hardened about 'my way is the only way'. Hindus themselves are doing better jobs of glorifying our own faith, as well as standing up. Certain states (generally the poorer ones) in India are far more vulnerable than others.
Ingledsva
HEATHEN ALASKAN
Where does it say that?
Jesus had a problem with only one particular Jewish group and how hardened they had become.
He specifically said he DID NOT come to change the Law, or prophets.
Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill.
Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
*
I am one of them, welcome to the human race
Clear, why did they reject Christ and still do? Why did the Nation fall? Why is there Prophecy saying God will send another Messenger?
That shows that one has not understood this Message of peace and unity.
John 5:46"If you have beleived Moses you would beleive Me, as Moses wrote about Me.
The Message, I am the First I am the Last.
Regards to all Tony