How are these Great Beings explained?

[loverofhumanity]

@loverofhumanity

Also, Lover, it's hard to make counterarguments when you guys agree to everything I say but them offer scripture and the same argument without saying directly that you disagree.

Have I quoted any scripture for the past few weeks? I don't think I have since you objected or tried not to.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I'll rephrase

Have I quoted any scripture for the past few weeks? I don't think I have since you objected or tried not to.

Also, Lover, it's hard to make counterarguments when you guys agree to everything I say but them offered (instead of offer) scripture and the same argument without saying directly that you disagree.

In other words, how can you make counter arguments with something you agree with. It makes it tiresome to tell you what we think when you rephrase what we think to reflect off of your beliefs.

 

[Tumah]

Another thing I'd like you to comment on is the Baha'i concept of "progressive" revelation. They believe these "manifestations" or "Great Beings" have all come from the One True God. Each manifestation comes to bring a new message that is specific to the time and place and to the people in that place.

Like I mentioned earlier, they put Moses on the list of manifestations and sometimes they include Abraham and even Noah and Adam. But outside of Judaism, they also include Krishna, Buddha, Zoroaster, Jesus, Mohammad, the Bab and Baha'u'llah. All these men are said to be equal and from God. So not only is Jesus supposedly your Messiah, but all the rest too. But, since Baha'u'llah is the latest one, he, I would assume, is supposedly the most important one of the bunch and the "Messiah" that is to bring peace to the Jews and to the world.

Is there anything close to this in Judaic thinking?

Sorry for the delayed response, I recently had a baby and was busy with associated rituals.

I don't think we have anything similar really. I mean, we are put into a separate system to the Noahide one by Moses, but that's not a nod to the times as we believe there was always meant to be an Israelite nation (although which nation would be granted that name was up in the air for a while).

When it comes it comes to Jewish prophets in general, although they are each bringing their own message, its always within the context of the system already in place. So Isaiah or Micah didn't create a new Judaism for the times, its always about returning to the system already in place.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Buddha when He returned in the Person of Baha'u'llah stated the truth about Buddhism which is not the currently held view. The Manifestations trumps earthly suppositions and theories and reveals truth. We can reject it, but if we had truth the world would be a different place, a spiritual place.

The Buddha's words trumps what any manifestations and gods say. The Buddha taught there isn't a creator.

Then Mara, the Evil One, taking possession of an attendant of the Brahma assembly, said to me, 'Monk! Monk! Don't attack him! Don't attack him! For this Brahma, monk, is the Great Brahma, the Conqueror, the Unconquered, the All-Seeing, All-Powerful, the Sovereign Lord, the Maker, Creator, Chief, Appointer and Ruler, Father of All That Have Been and Shall Be. There were, monk, before your time, brahmans & contemplatives in the world

The Buddha in this sutta I mentioned it thousands of posts ago challenges the Creator in that Mara was saying that the world is eternal and permanent. The Buddha, instead, said that the world is changing and everything is in a state of life and death.​

I don't see your faith trumping other people's faiths. Every person has their own truth in their own regard. No one "trumps" or "rejects" anything.

We have our truths just because people abuse their religions and some try to make people of one religion, one Church, or so have you, it causes discord with those who wish to keep their own faith.

The colonization and wishing mindset of "people are rejecting and we need everyone to be like us" has torm America so much. I just see Bahai reinventing the wheel. The proof is this thread.

The condition of the world today mirrors its spiritual health which is falsely propagated as healthy and deceptively palmed off as truth when it is everything but.

The condition of people's individual spirituality reflects their growth in their individual faith. Just because I don't believe in god, doesn't mean my counterpart and I would cause wars. That's silly. It's not "Us vs. Them."

We are them. No separation.

As we learn not to be attached to our faiths to where it belittles others or disregards others, then spiritual health can be achieved. We can find a common foundation while not disregarding our faiths in order to do so. An atheist can be one with a Bahai. A Bahai can be one with a Hindu. It just depends on the motive and what each religions teach in regards to evangelizing.

Baha'u'llah admonished the leaders of religion for misleading their followers into false myths, superstitions and half truths only for the lust of power and wealth. Look at the rampant terrorism in Islam and the sexual abuse all over the world by priests and what He said is fully vindicated. These religions lost their spiritual potency when they rejected the Manifestation foretold in their Holy Books and have been on the decline rapidly every since for all mankind to see.

Which followers are misled?

That is a huge insult.

No them vs. us. By these words, you just insulted people here that practice different religions you speak against.

Until people accept the prophecies of their own Faith and stop listening to the leaders who always misguide them then they will not know the truth.

We do. Some people abuse it.

That is my point. You just don't agree.

In your view, that causes division. In my view, I'm just confused.

The state of the world has everything to do with its spiritual condition. It is because the world is so unspiritual that we have had two world wars and on the brink of another and yet you maintain that religion is alive and well? How strange, everyday facts betray that stance as false and only wishful thinking.

Our spiritual depression has nothing to do with wars. It's an individual searching of one's self and/or within one's community. When I see Muslims as a group pray at my school, I don't think "they don't follow their own religions. They are going to cause wars."

That's silly. To put it nicely.

The world is in a mess because it has turned away from truth. Turned away from God and His latest Manifestation.

Your belief. If you want humanity to be one, you have to incorporate others opinions to. That is my point.

If the religions of the world were spiritually healthy and people were truly spiritual we wouldn't be on the brink of further calamities or in the midst of gross vice, violence and immorality and we would have peace and brotherhood and unity among the nations. Do you see that or something else?

I see people abusing their faith and acting in ways that harm others. I also realized I'm no different than Hitler and Bin Laden. I'm no different than you or Vinakaya. We are all humans. We all have the same capability (case in point) to do what the other person can do.

It is not us vs. them.

Humanity and oneness should be all people. Hitler included.

The solution is not god, though. That's your faith. It doesn't bring humanity together. Just Bahai and agreeing religious followers.

If you don't see the world in a complete mess then you need to look again.

I don't see our mess as a result of not following god. Maybe a Hindu's mess is not following, I don't know, Shiva. Maybe a Christian's mess is not following Christ's father. Maybe a Spiritualist mess is not heading the advice and healings of our family in spirit and spirit in general. Maybe hilter's thing was he didn't go to confession and ask for forgiveness to see things in a different view. Maybe....

Stop watching the news. Spirituality is personal.

The sign of the sun is its light and the sign of a spiritual civilisation or that religions are alive spiritually is a world at peace full of virtuous people. How can you maintain people believe in truth when the world reflects a very different scenario, one of spiritual bankruptcy!!

The common elixir is not god.

Here is what The Buddha says on this::The Burning House

All methods to bringing people to safety from delusions rest in different methods according to what people believe. As such, we don't put down Hindu, Muslim, Buddhist believes because you believe their followers went away from their teachings. You see different methods are relevant for today and you (as those who believe in the Lotus) help people see enlightenment see things in the manner they understand it.

If I knew about Hinduism and someone wanted help and asked for basic information, I can talk about it and give him my opinion. I can do this one hundred percent with a Catholic. It means stepping out of your shoes into others.

The Father in this house didn't try one method. He tried several to save his children.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

So anonymous reader, take your pick ... who should you listen to?

This is good advice;

The answer is they should look for and listen to God has said, each person for their own selves.

They should balance all thoughts with science and reasoning.

Regards Tony

 

[Vinayaka]

If you think it's wrong debate it. While we offer many proofs we have yet to hear if any rational, reasonable counter argument.

We have been doing exactly that. Where have you been? Your entire argument is "Baha'u'llah is infallible. What he said is true." That's not really much of an argument. If you went to a court over an arson charge, and said, "I didn't do it. I'm infallible, and what I say is true!" do you really think the judge let you off?

So just where would you like to start? You said that Baha'u'llah was self-taught, and claimed that to be some proof of his infallibility. I countered with a long list of famous people who were self taught. You never replied to that, but just chose to ignore it. What can I say?

So again, how do you explain the ability to self-teach? Do you at least acknowledge that many people have done what your prophet did? It's a fact after all. You are agreeing with facts no?

 

[TransmutingSoul]

I know you keep saying you override other people's beliefs for your facts because they come from god;

Carlita - This is not what we say. We have no Message of our own.

We offer to all, as to what Baha'u'llah has advised Humanity as a whole. That all major Faiths have come from God and all Messengers give the same Spiritual Message from God, with Laws suited to the age it was given. We are One people on one planet.

It is Baha'u'llah that has advised all humanity that it is man that overides or rejects Gods advice.

That is your belief. That is not hindu belief. We all have told you it is no

Baha'u'llah has advised otherwise. The offer is to look at that advice or not to look. That is all.

When it comes it comes to Jewish prophets in general, although they are each bringing their own message, its always within the context of the system already in place. So Isaiah or Micah didn't create a new Judaism for the times, its always about returning to the system already in place.

That is compatiable with what is Progressive Revelation.

I would Offer Christ also showed progression in the same system of our One God.

May all be well and happy.

Regards Tony

 

[Vinayaka]

This is good advice;

The answer is they should look for and listen to God has said, each person for their own selves.

They should balance all thoughts with science and reasoning.

Regards Tony

Indeed they should. Problem is everyone Abrahamic claims they know what God said, and they all differ. In Hinduism we don't make such a silly claim in the first place.

I think most reasonable people can recognise contradictions and falsehoods when they see them.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

do you really think the judge let you off?

I would hope the judge would look at the evidence, that they would be impartial and have justice in mind.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Indeed they should. Problem is everyone Abrahamic claims they know what God said, and they all differ. In Hinduism we don't make such a silly claim in the first place.

I think most reasonable people can recognise contradictions and falsehoods when they see them.

I like to consider that a good judge looks at the evidence and not hearsay.

Regards Tony

 

[Tumah]

That is compatiable with what is Progressive Revelation.

I would Offer Christ also showed progression in the same system of our One God.

In the same system of your One God, but not in the same systems as mine. Otherwise you'd all be following Judaism, not Christianity or Baha'i.

Which kind of is the difference between what you call progressive revelation and what actually exists in Judaism.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

In the same system of your One God, but not in the same systems as mine. Otherwise you'd all be following Judaism, not Christianity or Baha'i.

Which kind of is the difference between what you call progressive revelation and what actually exists in Judaism.

I see a world where man likes differences, where they like to think they are in control of God and His Messages.

God doeth as He willeth.

May you always be happy and well

Regards Tony

 

[Tumah]

I see a world where man likes differences, where they like to think they are in control of God and His Messages.

Not of course, in the way that Baha'i is trying to control the message they think G-d has sent by reinterpreting all other world religions to conform to Baha'i. That's totally different. Extremely different.

God doeth as He willeth.

And that's to send messages in Elizabethan?

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Not of course, in the way that Baha'i is trying to control the message they think G-d has sent by reinterpreting all other world religions to conform to Baha'i. That's totally different. Extremely different.


And that's to send messages in Elizabethan?

Baha'u'llah offers and did not choose control.

No one has to even consider the Message, no one even has to reply to any post by a Baha'i.

The Message of G-d will find hearts that willingly look.

Regards Tony

 

[Vinayaka]

I would hope the judge would look at the evidence, that they would be impartial and have justice in mind.

Regards Tony

No judge takes only a person's word. There is always evidence.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

No judge takes only a person's word. There is always evidence.

Yes, luckily it is in writing. we can then check if the decision made was based on the evidence.

Regards Tony

 

[Vinayaka]

I like to consider that a good judge looks at the evidence and not hearsay.

Regards Tony

The amount of proselytizing and advertising and promotion the Baha'is have done in the last 150 years should have it as the number one religion on the planet by now. But it's not. Why? Most people who encounter it reject it outright because of all the misconceptions, hypocrisy, misleading teaching, infallability syndrome and more. Many of those, like Didymus on here, even took a closer look. Whereas people like me actually didn't bother because it took us far less time to see.

But view the reality of that situation with pink glasses if you must. You're not hurting anyone by that. At the same time, I don't think we can expect massive changes anytime soon. I certainly don't expect it.

 

[Vinayaka]

Baha'u'llah offers and did not choose control.

No one has to even consider the Message, no one even has to reply to any post by a Baha'i.

The Message of G-d will find hearts that willingly look.

Regards Tony

I haven't found your message. That means I'm godless? Fallowing a false faith?

 

[Vinayaka]

Yes, luckily it is in writing. we can then check if the decision made was based on the evidence.

Regards Tony

There is no evidence, Tony.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

The amount of proselytizing and advertising and promotion the Baha'is have done in the last 150 years should have it as the number one religion on the planet by now. But it's not. Why? Most people who encounter it reject it outright because of all the misconceptions, hypocrisy, misleading teaching, infallability syndrome and more. Many of those, like Didymus on here, even took a closer look. Whereas people like me actually didn't bother because it took us far less time to see.

But view the reality of that situation with pink glasses if you must. You're not hurting anyone by that. At the same time, I don't think we can expect massive changes anytime soon. I certainly don't expect it.

Yes it is sad, Baha'u'llah told us why it would be so;

"The world is in travail, and its agitation waxeth day by day. Its face is turned towards waywardness and unbelief. Such shall be its plight, that to disclose it now would not be meet and seemly. Its perversity will long continue. And when the appointed hour is come, there shall suddenly appear that which shall cause the limbs of mankind to quake. Then, and only then, will the Divine Standard be unfurled, and the Nightingale of Paradise warble its melody."

Regards Tony