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New Evidence Found To Show Humans Came From Fish

BilliardsBall

Veteran Member
I don't think you know what you are talking about. You can't claim issues without having seen evidence. Or without providing evidence of said issues.

All in favor of ignoring this guy? Nothing good will come out of this.

I'm in favor of having you read all my posts before you become so assumptive. The main issues haven't changed since Darwin, and the current science here is weak. I'm informed on the issues. But I don't need to constantly recheck the sphericity of the planet or whether Armstrong really walked the moon, either.
 

BilliardsBall

Veteran Member
I stopped debating your comment awhile ago. I was pointing out your arguments are horrible and you complain at lot. Try to keep up.



Pointing out literal doctrine is not an academic view is a fact. You view is grand claims without facts. Try again.



Are you not over this point yet? You clarified, I acknowledge it. Get over it son....

Pointing out lack of evidence is not a fallacy. Try again.



I never messaged you to ask questions. I was attacking your weak arguments.

This is not a formal debate forum, pretending does not make it so. This is not a Q&A session nor is the topic the Bible itself. Try again. Maybe read the OP and title. Maybe consider why I reject your arguments and ask why I do so.

Well, that's all fine. Now go ahead and attack any of my arguments with facts and not rhetoric. Still waiting, patiently.
 

Darkstorn

This shows how unique i am.
I'm informed on the issues.

So you believe.

Oh and the actual problem is, you haven't shown us that you're informed on the issues. Even if by some magical chance you were actually informed.

In fact, from what i've read(i read the entire thread, and others), it almost makes it look like your understanding of the issues is at best flawed, at worst ridiculous.
 
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metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
However, the main issues, like gaps in the fossil record, have continued unabated since Darwin.
So many of these "gaps" get narrowed as time has gone on because we keep finding intermediary forms, contrary to the propaganda coming from so many of the "creationists".

BTW, just to be clear, you and I are "intermediary forms" if you have had children like I.
 

Shad

Veteran Member
Well, that's all fine. Now go ahead and attack any of my arguments with facts and not rhetoric. Still waiting, patiently.

I already have. I pointed out your dogmatism is not academic truth. No academic without your dogmatic view point will ever support your views regarding the bible or biblical creationism.

Your memory is failing as you have been complaining for weeks rather than addressing any point I have made.
 

Shad

Veteran Member
Ask those who believe such nonsense. I am no animal, my ancestors weren't animals. You and I are created in God's image. It is no wonder many people in this world are treated like animals with this sort of secular thinking.

Yes it was atheists that treated Africans as less than human.... Oh wait that was Christians using the Bible.
 

BilliardsBall

Veteran Member
I stopped debating your comment awhile ago. I was pointing out your arguments are horrible and you complain at lot. Try to keep up.



Pointing out literal doctrine is not an academic view is a fact. You view is grand claims without facts. Try again.



Are you not over this point yet? You clarified, I acknowledge it. Get over it son....

Pointing out lack of evidence is not a fallacy. Try again.



I never messaged you to ask questions. I was attacking your weak arguments.

This is not a formal debate forum, pretending does not make it so. This is not a Q&A session nor is the topic the Bible itself. Try again. Maybe read the OP and title. Maybe consider why I reject your arguments and ask why I do so.

So . . . you've got nothing.

We can try again, if you like. 1) Pick a resolution to debate. 2) Bring facts, rather than hyperbole and falsely identifying fallacies.

PS. Jesus loves you! :)
 

BilliardsBall

Veteran Member
They have not.

Do we do, "No it's not!" "Yes it is!" next? Because you are acting childishly.

There are real issues with evolution--now--today, not in some Creationist website but in the field of evolutionary biology.

The problem is everyone worships something and you are being overly credulous regarding the current body of scientific knowledge. The nature of science is to question. We question even inductive observations, biology of the distant past isn't even inductive observation!
 

BilliardsBall

Veteran Member
So you believe.

Oh and the actual problem is, you haven't shown us that you're informed on the issues. Even if by some magical chance you were actually informed.

In fact, from what i've read(i read the entire thread, and others), it almost makes it look like your understanding of the issues is at best flawed, at worst ridiculous.

That's assumptive, since there's so much rhetoric on the opposing side that my views have barely been presented! But then again, I try not to waste time posting reams of evidence to people who can't see what I write or hear the vox Dei.

Do you have a rationalist, scientific mind? It would behoove you to ask me for my evidence, then discuss it, then learn. "You have ridiculous views" is neither a scientific nor a debating position. It's just painting your opponent.

You are WASTING TIME. Every skeptic thinks every Creationist is deluded, why add fuel to the fire?

PS. Don't bother asking, "So, present your evidence, then." You don't care about my evidence. You need God to show you some things IMHO.
 

BilliardsBall

Veteran Member
So many of these "gaps" get narrowed as time has gone on because we keep finding intermediary forms, contrary to the propaganda coming from so many of the "creationists".

BTW, just to be clear, you and I are "intermediary forms" if you have had children like I.

I have children--let me check--wait a sec--yup, they remain homo sapiens sapiens. What is this nonsense you speak of?
 

BilliardsBall

Veteran Member
I already have. I pointed out your dogmatism is not academic truth. No academic without your dogmatic view point will ever support your views regarding the bible or biblical creationism.

Your memory is failing as you have been complaining for weeks rather than addressing any point I have made.

No, actually there are numerous academics who support my views, for example, I would say Jesus was a real person, you would say He's a myth, and then I'd demonstrate that nearly 100% of academics, secular or religious academics, agree that Jesus preached, was baptized and crucified, and that His followers soon after declared Him resurrected.

What I've noticed--and have been trying to point out patiently over these weeks--is that you seek no conciliation or common ground with me whatsoever, and merely post "fallacy!" and "wrong!" next to every sentence I post.

Do you want to debate something, listen and learn something or both? You are accomplishing neither.
 

sayak83

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
Do we do, "No it's not!" "Yes it is!" next? Because you are acting childishly.

There are real issues with evolution--now--today, not in some Creationist website but in the field of evolutionary biology.

The problem is everyone worships something and you are being overly credulous regarding the current body of scientific knowledge. The nature of science is to question. We question even inductive observations, biology of the distant past isn't even inductive observation!
You are the one who is acting childishly. We have excellent transitional sequence of fossils for many many major evolutionary transformations (dinosaurs to birds, deer-like animals to giraffe, land-mammals to whales, fish to amphibians, early apes to humans, early reptile forms to mammals, pre-Cambrian forms to post-Cambrian forms to name a few) that simply did not exist to when Darwin was writing. So its objectively false to state that supposed gaps in the fossil record remain a glaring problem today as it did in Darwin's time. Simple fact. I can demonstrate all these claims if you have a desire to know about them.

I am a scientist and am extremely well-versed in the scientific method. The theory of evolution is as well grounded in science as any theory in physics or chemistry. I say that through direct investigation of the evidence and already existing expertise in how scientific theories are validated. No faith is required here apart from the basic assumptions that all of science makes (that reality is regular, predictable and intelligible and amenable to exploration through rationality and empiricism).

As a practicing Hindu, I do not claim that science can investigate all aspects of reality or can provide definite yes and no answers regarding existence of certain realities that are considered the purview of various religions (at least not yet). But it is very good at what it does, and undoubtedly superior to any other ways of knowing in those fields, and this includes the history of transformations of earth and life within it and the mechanisms by which that has occurred. Every line, even in a graduate textbook of geology or evolution, has evidence backing it that easily runs into thousands of pages worth of extensive and closely analyzed research. I can run through one example if you wish me to, but you will have to apply yourself a little. Most arguments of creationism are deceptions that exploit the fact that most people outside of the scientists who have investigated these things, know little of these deep investigations and are unlikely to pursue them. To decide the truths of scientific facts and theories through websites and popular books is like deciding the culpability of person regarding a certain crime not by the police or the courts but by internet articles and twitter.

All of this is moot however if you believe that no amount of evidence from science can convince you about the reality as described by evolutionary theory (because of something like sin or satan's influence on the intellect and human ability to reason based in observation). If you are of this view then the discussion is pointless as no evidence of science can ever convince you to change what you believe your religious scripture is telling you. If you have pre-decided that all contrary evidence has to be false then what you have is a closed and fixed worldview that cannot change. This would be a pity, but its your choice, and I will respect that.
 

SkepticThinker

Veteran Member
Do we do, "No it's not!" "Yes it is!" next? Because you are acting childishly.

There are real issues with evolution--now--today, not in some Creationist website but in the field of evolutionary biology.

The problem is everyone worships something and you are being overly credulous regarding the current body of scientific knowledge. The nature of science is to question. We question even inductive observations, biology of the distant past isn't even inductive observation!
Everybody does NOT worship something.

What issues do you think currently exist with evolution? We've already addressed Lucy and how it was not a hoax, so please don't go there again.
 

SkepticThinker

Veteran Member
That's assumptive, since there's so much rhetoric on the opposing side that my views have barely been presented! But then again, I try not to waste time posting reams of evidence to people who can't see what I write or hear the vox Dei.

Do you have a rationalist, scientific mind? It would behoove you to ask me for my evidence, then discuss it, then learn. "You have ridiculous views" is neither a scientific nor a debating position. It's just painting your opponent.

You are WASTING TIME. Every skeptic thinks every Creationist is deluded, why add fuel to the fire?

PS. Don't bother asking, "So, present your evidence, then." You don't care about my evidence. You need God to show you some things IMHO.
"Your views/arguments are ridiculous" can be a debating position.

It would be great if God would show anybody anything. It would be greater if this God could provide some empirical evidence for his own existence. Alas, I have yet to see anything like that happen. Once you can demonstrate the God you believe in exists, then I'll start believing.
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
I have children--let me check--wait a sec--yup, they remain homo sapiens sapiens. What is this nonsense you speak of?
Well, this "nonsense" is just plain old common sense based on overwhelming scientific evidence.

As far as we can tell, all life forms are in a constant state of flux, therefore incremental changes can and do kick in that can and have led to the formation of different species (Google "speciation" and maybe go to the links to studies).
 

BilliardsBall

Veteran Member
You are the one who is acting childishly. We have excellent transitional sequence of fossils for many many major evolutionary transformations (dinosaurs to birds, deer-like animals to giraffe, land-mammals to whales, fish to amphibians, early apes to humans, early reptile forms to mammals, pre-Cambrian forms to post-Cambrian forms to name a few) that simply did not exist to when Darwin was writing. So its objectively false to state that supposed gaps in the fossil record remain a glaring problem today as it did in Darwin's time. Simple fact. I can demonstrate all these claims if you have a desire to know about them.

I am a scientist and am extremely well-versed in the scientific method. The theory of evolution is as well grounded in science as any theory in physics or chemistry. I say that through direct investigation of the evidence and already existing expertise in how scientific theories are validated. No faith is required here apart from the basic assumptions that all of science makes (that reality is regular, predictable and intelligible and amenable to exploration through rationality and empiricism).

As a practicing Hindu, I do not claim that science can investigate all aspects of reality or can provide definite yes and no answers regarding existence of certain realities that are considered the purview of various religions (at least not yet). But it is very good at what it does, and undoubtedly superior to any other ways of knowing in those fields, and this includes the history of transformations of earth and life within it and the mechanisms by which that has occurred. Every line, even in a graduate textbook of geology or evolution, has evidence backing it that easily runs into thousands of pages worth of extensive and closely analyzed research. I can run through one example if you wish me to, but you will have to apply yourself a little. Most arguments of creationism are deceptions that exploit the fact that most people outside of the scientists who have investigated these things, know little of these deep investigations and are unlikely to pursue them. To decide the truths of scientific facts and theories through websites and popular books is like deciding the culpability of person regarding a certain crime not by the police or the courts but by internet articles and twitter.

All of this is moot however if you believe that no amount of evidence from science can convince you about the reality as described by evolutionary theory (because of something like sin or satan's influence on the intellect and human ability to reason based in observation). If you are of this view then the discussion is pointless as no evidence of science can ever convince you to change what you believe your religious scripture is telling you. If you have pre-decided that all contrary evidence has to be false then what you have is a closed and fixed worldview that cannot change. This would be a pity, but its your choice, and I will respect that.

I don't disagree with your rationalist mindset and your strong scientific viewpoint, rather I commend it.

But we have different ideas as to what a transitional fossil is. I'm amazed that scientists take something like ambulocetus, for one of many examples, as far as they do.

Cars have wheels, trucks have wheels, boats and planes have wheels. They didn't evolve mechanistically from one another.
 

BilliardsBall

Veteran Member
Everybody does NOT worship something.

What issues do you think currently exist with evolution? We've already addressed Lucy and how it was not a hoax, so please don't go there again.

Whoa! First things first, brother. Everybody does worship something:

*a god
*themselves
*their minds
*money
*sex
*power

I cannot discuss Evolution with you until you chime in on point one. Then you will understand how humans are devolving, not evolving!
 

BilliardsBall

Veteran Member
"Your views/arguments are ridiculous" can be a debating position.

It would be great if God would show anybody anything. It would be greater if this God could provide some empirical evidence for his own existence. Alas, I have yet to see anything like that happen. Once you can demonstrate the God you believe in exists, then I'll start believing.

1. God shows many people many things.

2. You don't use solely empirical evidence to justify your beliefs, do you? Because you believe certain things regarding Evolution from the fossil record, the distant past. And we can find many things recorded about God in the Bible, another recording from the past. Be consistent.
 
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