If Jesus is God he sacrificed nothing for us.

[Jeremiahcp]

If you don't lose anything then you sacrificed nothing.

If God is an all-powerful being, and Jesus is God then he sacrificed nothing on the cross.

If Jesus was just a normal human then he sacrificed everything for us.

 

[Deeje]

If you don't lose anything then you sacrificed nothing.

This is true. Unless it costs you something you have sacrificed nothing. The size of the sacrifice is relative as Jesus made clear....but the motive is more important.

Like 21:1-4:
"Now as he looked up, he saw the rich dropping their gifts into the treasury chests. 2 Then he saw a needy widow drop in two small coins of very little value, 3 and he said: “Truly I say to you that this poor widow put in more than they all did. 4 For all of these put in gifts out of their surplus, but she, out of her want, put in all the means of living she had.”

If God is an all-powerful being, and Jesus is God then he sacrificed nothing on the cross.

No one has ever shown me one scripture where either Jesus or his Father ever said that Jesus was God, or an equal of his Father. He is a begotten son. Those begotten need a begetter.

Jesus is not and never was Almighty God. This is not a Bible teaching.

If Jesus was just a normal human then he sacrificed everything for us.

Yes, he did.

 

[Jeremiahcp]

This is true. Unless it costs you something you have sacrificed nothing. The size of the sacrifice is relative as Jesus made clear....but the motive is more important.

Like 21:1-4:
"Now as he looked up, he saw the rich dropping their gifts into the treasury chests. 2 Then he saw a needy widow drop in two small coins of very little value, 3 and he said: “Truly I say to you that this poor widow put in more than they all did. 4 For all of these put in gifts out of their surplus, but she, out of her want, put in all the means of living she had.”



No one has ever shown me one scripture where either Jesus or his Father ever said that Jesus was God, or an equal of his Father. He is a begotten son. Those begotten need a begetter.

Jesus is not and never was Almighty God. This is not a Bible teaching.



Yes, he did.

"No one has ever shown me one scripture where either Jesus or his Father ever said that Jesus was God, or an equal of his Father. He is a begotten son. Those begotten need a begetter."

There is a reason the if is there.

 

[Kemosloby]

If you don't lose anything then you sacrificed nothing.

If God is an all-powerful being, and Jesus is God then he sacrificed nothing on the cross.

If Jesus was just a normal human then he sacrificed everything for us.

He endured suffering. sacrificing the opportunity to not suffer.

 

[Jeremiahcp]

He endured suffering. sacrificing the opportunity to not suffer.

For an endless all-powerful being, the pain would have been brief and insignificant. That is not giving up very much at all.

Also are you suggesting humans can hurt God?

 

[Scott C.]

If you don't lose anything then you sacrificed nothing.

If God is an all-powerful being, and Jesus is God then he sacrificed nothing on the cross.

If Jesus was just a normal human then he sacrificed everything for us.

I believe that Jesus suffered eternal pain in the atonement, more pain and suffering than can be attributed to a physical crucifixion. His Father withdrew his mitigating or strengthening influence and turned his Son over to the full pains of eternal hell. This went far beyond the pain of the cross and nails, as painful as those were. I believe that it was a sacrifice for the God of heaven, who has all power, to go far beyond anything any person has or will suffer, in order to pay Justice her dues for our sins.

 

[Jeremiahcp]

I believe that Jesus suffered eternal pain in the atonement, more pain and suffering than can be attributed to a physical crucifixion. His Father withdrew his mitigating or strengthening influence and turned his Son over to the full pains of eternal hell. This went far beyond the pain of the cross and nails, as painful as those were. I believe that it was a sacrifice for the God of heaven, who has all power, to go far beyond anything any person has or will suffer, in order to pay Justice her dues for our sins.

All the suffering of Hell is nothing to an all-powerful being.

 

[Scott C.]

All the suffering of Hell is nothing to an all-powerful being.

How do you know that?

 

[Deeje]

"No one has ever shown me one scripture where either Jesus or his Father ever said that Jesus was God, or an equal of his Father. He is a begotten son. Those begotten need a begetter."

There is a reason the if is there.

Just confirming that the second "if" doesn't apply. The first and the last one do.

 

[Deeje]

All the suffering of Hell is nothing to an all-powerful being.

Can I ask you what you think "hell" is?

 

[Jeremiahcp]

How do you know that?

Because if Hell could hurt him then he would not be all-powerful.

 

[Jeremiahcp]

Can I ask you what you think "hell" is?

A made up place.

 

[Jeremiahcp]

Just confirming that the second "if" doesn't apply. The first and the last one do.

Since it is all made up you can apply as many ifs as you want.

 

[beenherebeforeagain]

Any mere human can suffer, and can gladly suffer so that another does not...and people wish to do it all the time...and yet it seems to count for nothing...

To me, for the Passion to have any meaning at all, there had to be a very real possibility that Death would win, that he would be unable to rise again. If there was no chance that he would not rise, the sacrifice is meaningless. I don't see in the Bible as it stands, or in any of the churches' explanations, that there was any chance that he wasn't going to rise again.

On the other hand, the Gnostic versions have a different sense (here I'm talking the Nag Hammadi texts), wherein the Passion is understood in a very different way. For some reason, this version appeals to me.

 

[Deeje]

Since it is all made up you can apply as many ifs as you want.

You posted the "ifs".....Is there a purpose to your strange statements? If it's all just made up, why are you bothering to post about any of it?

Some people are searching for the meaning of life....are you supposed to be helping them find some?....or to get as lost as you appear to be?

 

[Scott C.]

Because if Hell could hurt him then he would not be all-powerful.

He voluntarily submitted to the suffering. That's partly what made it such a sacrifice. He could have come down from the cross and walked away. I don't pretend to understand how it all worked. It's the eternal suffering of the eternal God. The "but how can a bullet hurt Superman?" argument does not sway me. There are clearly matters relating to the Infinite that are not currently understood well.

 

[psychoslice]

For me personally the sacrifice was a metaphor, of course no one else can do it for us, we ourselves must sacrifice our carnal self so as to let the inner spiritual Self arise from within, this inner Being is the Christ. The Christ is our mediator between our Self and the Source of all, Consciousness. or God.

 

[Deeje]

Any mere human can suffer, and can gladly suffer so that another does not...and people wish to do it all the time...and yet it seems to count for nothing...

To me, for the Passion to have any meaning at all, there had to be a very real possibility that Death would win, that he would be unable to rise again. If there was no chance that he would not rise, the sacrifice is meaningless. I don't see in the Bible as it stands, or in any of the churches' explanations, that there was any chance that he wasn't going to rise again.

On the other hand, the Gnostic versions have a different sense (here I'm talking the Nag Hammadi texts), wherein the Passion is understood in a very different way. For some reason, this version appeals to me.

It seems to me as if most people have no idea why Jesus came from heaven to be born as a human child on earth, and why he had to die in the first place. The resurrection is God's guarantee that death is not permanent. Jesus was raised to show God's power over death. Christ's sacrifice frees us from the same grip of death.....in the "new earth" "death will be no more". (2 Peter 3:13; Revelation 21:2-4; 1 Cor 15:26)

 

[Jeremiahcp]

He voluntarily submitted to the suffering. That's partly what made it such a sacrifice. He could have come down from the cross and walked away. I don't pretend to understand how it all worked. It's the eternal suffering of the eternal God. The "but how can a bullet hurt Superman?" argument does not sway me. There are clearly matters relating to the Infinite that are not currently understood well.

It does not matter if he submitted or not, if he is all-powerful pain and certainly humans can not hurt him. If Jesus could be hurt he was not a god.

 

[Deeje]

He voluntarily submitted to the suffering. That's partly what made it such a sacrifice. He could have come down from the cross and walked away. I don't pretend to understand how it all worked. It's the eternal suffering of the eternal God. The "but how can a bullet hurt Superman?" argument does not sway me. There are clearly matters relating to the Infinite that are not currently understood well.

Has no one ever explained the mechanics of the ransom to you?