No one says she is your redeemer.
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JW's Preach A Different Gospel
- Thread starter katiemygirl
- Start date
djhwoodwerks
Well-Known Member
How many lives were ruined because of the GB "NO BIGGIE" mistake in timing? The WT even bragged about people selling their homes and property that they never had to sell. When a mistake hurts thousands of people, it is a horrendous mistake! How can you say it is "NO BIGGIE"? People sold everything they had, and January 1, 1976 they "HAD NOTHING"! And everybody knows, unless you are blinded by the lies of the GB, that any JW reading the Kingdom Ministry in 1974 and read the bragging and praise given in the following statement were filled with joy and "ANTICIPATION" and sold all their property also and gave he money to the WT. "NO BIGGIE" you are heartless!
*** km 5/74 p. 3 How Are You Using Your Life? ***
Reports are heard of brothers selling their homes and property and planning to finish out the rest of their days in this old system in the pioneer service. Certainly this is a fine way to spend the short time remaining before the wicked world’s end.
It's a very sad thing when someone teaches a false prediction or doctrine and tries to compare it with the apostles or prophets in the Bible. Where in this verse, or any verse after does it say that the apostles taught as a "TRUTH" from God that Jesus was, "at that time going to restore the kingdom"? They asked Him if He was going to restore the kingdom. In not one letter any of the apostles wrote will you find them telling people that Jesus "HAS" restored the kingdom.
Act 1:6 (ESVST) 6 So when they had come together, they asked him, "Lord, will you at this time restore the kingdom to Israel?"
What did Jesus say? "It's not for you to know." He didn't say, "there are clues in the old testament, you figure it out." They had the same books we have today, and those books were more accurate, why didn't they try to figure it out? Probably because they took Jesus at His word, "IT'S NOT FOR YOU TO KNOW"!
Act 1:7 (ESVST) "It is not for you to know times or seasons that the Father has fixed by his own authority and has given to His anointed slave in the future.
@Wharton
jeager106 said: ↑
Do you agree that the RCC Pope is directed by God and is God's human channel
to Catholics on earth?
The pope is the final teacher with authority. No more. No less. BTW, there has been only one infallible statement made by a pope.
Does the RCC claim to be the only path to salvation?
No.
Does the RCC make claims that they are the ONLY way to salvation?
No.
Why is this so different from what claims you make about J.W.'s and their doctrine?
I don't have a problem with your "teachers with authority," just what they teach. (Quote)
Catholicism's Ever-Changing Doctrine
Athanasian Creed (ca. 400 AD), wherein one might read:
"Whoever wishes to be saved, needs above all to hold the Catholic faith; unless each one preserves this whole and entire, he will without a doubt perish in eternity. . . This is the Catholic faith' unless everyone believes this faithfully and firmly, he cannot be saved." (Denzinger 39, 30)
"Outside the Church nobody will be saved. (Extra ecclesiam nemo salvatur)" (Origen, In Jesu Nave hom. 3,5)
"One indeed is the universal Church of the faithful, outside which no one at all is saved . . ." (Lat
Re: concerns that J.W.'s change dogma. I see that as clarification when new discoveries are
made about translation errors of the past and there are many. Most notably about
eternal life, living in heaven if a "good Christian", and the notion of Hell, Damnation and
the Trinity.
People seem to have a problem with the GB but not the Pope? I don't get that at all.
The RCC has changed dogma much over it's long history but they say it's merely
a clarification of dogma.
"Dogmas, as divine truths revealed by God, are eternal and unchangeable. That is why a dogma can never be "re-defined." Yet, in this work you will notice that most of these dogmas have been solemnly defined and/or pronounced more than once. These are not "re-definitions." Rather, they are further definitions and/or clarifications which buttress aspects of a dogma that have come under some form of denial or attack. The content of these denials/attacks was often not anticipated in the preceding pronouncements. Hence, each further definition is a MORE PRECISE definition of the dogma. It is never the opposite. It is never an expansion or widening, and thus changing, of what the dogma holds. It is never an evolution as to the content and substance of a dogma. The reason this is so is, again, because dogmas are immutable. Truth cannot change."(Adam S. Miller, Op. Cit., p. 3)
Just word play.
Those that three words; "Truth cannot change." Sure it can is sure as hell :>) can
change.
"The only permanent in life is change."
jeager106 said: ↑
Do you agree that the RCC Pope is directed by God and is God's human channel
to Catholics on earth?
The pope is the final teacher with authority. No more. No less. BTW, there has been only one infallible statement made by a pope.
Does the RCC claim to be the only path to salvation?
No.
Does the RCC make claims that they are the ONLY way to salvation?
No.
Why is this so different from what claims you make about J.W.'s and their doctrine?
I don't have a problem with your "teachers with authority," just what they teach. (Quote)
Catholicism's Ever-Changing Doctrine
Athanasian Creed (ca. 400 AD), wherein one might read:
"Whoever wishes to be saved, needs above all to hold the Catholic faith; unless each one preserves this whole and entire, he will without a doubt perish in eternity. . . This is the Catholic faith' unless everyone believes this faithfully and firmly, he cannot be saved." (Denzinger 39, 30)
"Outside the Church nobody will be saved. (Extra ecclesiam nemo salvatur)" (Origen, In Jesu Nave hom. 3,5)
"One indeed is the universal Church of the faithful, outside which no one at all is saved . . ." (Lat
Re: concerns that J.W.'s change dogma. I see that as clarification when new discoveries are
made about translation errors of the past and there are many. Most notably about
eternal life, living in heaven if a "good Christian", and the notion of Hell, Damnation and
the Trinity.
People seem to have a problem with the GB but not the Pope? I don't get that at all.
The RCC has changed dogma much over it's long history but they say it's merely
a clarification of dogma.
"Dogmas, as divine truths revealed by God, are eternal and unchangeable. That is why a dogma can never be "re-defined." Yet, in this work you will notice that most of these dogmas have been solemnly defined and/or pronounced more than once. These are not "re-definitions." Rather, they are further definitions and/or clarifications which buttress aspects of a dogma that have come under some form of denial or attack. The content of these denials/attacks was often not anticipated in the preceding pronouncements. Hence, each further definition is a MORE PRECISE definition of the dogma. It is never the opposite. It is never an expansion or widening, and thus changing, of what the dogma holds. It is never an evolution as to the content and substance of a dogma. The reason this is so is, again, because dogmas are immutable. Truth cannot change."(Adam S. Miller, Op. Cit., p. 3)
Just word play.
Those that three words; "Truth cannot change." Sure it can is sure as hell :>) can
change.
"The only permanent in life is change."
You need to read beyond the .......Most JW's don't bother. They print what they want to satisfy their beliefs.
Let me help you out. There is no Christian that will disagree with the following, except JW's:
Your salvation depends on the following.
1) The degree in which you participated in the Truth (Jesus)
2) Your opportunity to have heard the Truth (Jesus) preached
3) Your works.
If 1 and 2 fail, you are judged on your works. So is salvation by faith and works? Yes it is.
BTW, your buddy Arian presented the need for a more precise definition of a dogma. Unlike your New Light, the dogma does not change, it is clarified to meet the heresy at that point in time.
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djhwoodwerks
Well-Known Member
Isa 44:6 (ESVST) 6 Thus says the Lord, the King of Israel and his Redeemer, the Lord of hosts: "I am the first and I am the last; besides me there is no god.
(NWT) 6 This is what Jehovah says, The King of Israel+ "AND" his Repurchaser,+ Jehovah of armies: ‘I am the first and I am the last. There is no God but me.+
According to the NWT there are "TWO" Gods. Jehovah the King of Israel "AND" His redeemer, Jehovah of armies. How can that be?
(NWT) 6 This is what Jehovah says, The King of Israel+ "AND" his Repurchaser,+ Jehovah of armies: ‘I am the first and I am the last. There is no God but me.+
According to the NWT there are "TWO" Gods. Jehovah the King of Israel "AND" His redeemer, Jehovah of armies. How can that be?
djhwoodwerks
Well-Known Member
You are absolutely correct about the WT only printing what satisfies their beliefs. Here is an example of one from their book, Reasoning from the Scriptures, page 89. Notice how they stopped their quote from the IBD at an upright pole, if they were to quote the rest of the article they would have destroyed their false teaching of the "TORTURE STAKE". I have attached the next paragraph from the article that the WT don't want JW's to read. It is from the same IBD that the WT used, so it is not apostate material.
*** rs p. 89 Cross ***
Why do Watch Tower publications show Jesus on a stake with hands over his head instead of on the traditional cross?
The Greek word rendered “cross” in many modern Bible versions (“torture stake” in NW) is stau·rosʹ. In classical Greek, this word meant merely an upright stake, or pale. Later it also came to be used for an execution stake having a crosspiece. The Imperial Bible-Dictionary acknowledges this, saying: “The Greek word for cross, [stau·rosʹ], properly signified a stake, an upright pole, or piece of paling, on which anything might be hung, or which might be used in impaling [fencing in] a piece of ground. . . . Even amongst the Romans the crux (from which our cross is derived) appears to have been originally an upright pole.”—Edited by P. Fairbairn (London, 1874), Vol. I, p. 376.
Good point.
I've found that JW's, along with Seventh Day Adventists, use the .......method when quoting sentences not in their entirety.
djhwoodwerks
Well-Known Member
The notorious ellipsis, the deceivers best tool! And, the JW's editorial department do not even use the correct ellipsis. They use "...." and the correct way is "...", maybe they do know what they are doing!
Yep, I wish they would have printed the entire statement:
The Athanasian Creed
Whoever wishes to be saved, needs above all to hold the Catholic faith; unless each one preserves this whole and inviolate, he will without a doubt perish in eternity.
But the Catholic faith is this, that we venerate one God in the Trinity, and the Trinity in oneness; neither confounding the persons, nor dividing the substance; for there is one person of the Father, another of the Son, and another of the Holy Spirit; but the divine nature of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit is one, their glory is equal, their majesty is coeternal.
On the reverse/opposite of the statement, there are people inside the Church that will not be saved by their own volition
Are picking the nit of how many periods should be in an ellipsis?
An ellipsis is a series of three or more periods (...) inserted into a sentence to indicate a pause or silence. Ellipses are usually used in dialogue. Ellipses are used today in lieu of other proper punctuation.
From the Urban dictionary.
djhwoodwerks
Well-Known Member
LOL! How many periods are between the brackets?
djhwoodwerks
Well-Known Member
JW's, are all clergyman a part of Christendom?
katiemygirl
CHRISTIAN
All Christians are priests. All Christians are baptized. No Scripture calls all Christians prophets or kings. BCV please.
Christians (priests) offer spiritual sacrifies. Our bodies are living sacrifices.
Therefore, I urge you, brothers and sisters, in view of God's mercy, to offer your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and pleasing to God--this is your true and proper worship (Romans 12:1)
The Levitical priests of the OT offered physical sacrifices. The priests, of the NT offer spiritual sacrifices.
So to answer your question, yes I offer spiritual sacrifices daily.
Our prayers are precious to God and they are seen by Him as sacrifices offered up to Him.
An angel is seen at the altar offering up to God incense mingled with "the prayers of the saints."
And the smoke of the incense, which came with the prayers of the saints, ascended up before God out of the angel's hand (Revelation 8:4)
Through Jesus, therefore, let us continually offer to God a sacrifice of praise--the fruit of lips that openly profess his name (Psalm 141:2).
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katiemygirl
CHRISTIAN
Book, chapter, verse please.
djhwoodwerks
Well-Known Member
*** w94 10/1 p. 8 The Bible—A Book Meant to Be Understood ***
JESUS assured us that after his death and resurrection, he would raise up a “faithful and discreet slave” that would serve as his channel of communication. (Matthew 24:45-47)
Mat 24:45-47 (ESVST) 45 " Who then is the faithful and wise servant, whom his master has set over his household, to give them their food at the proper time? 46 Blessed is that servant whom his master will find so doing when he comes. 47 Truly, I say to you, he will set him over all his possessions.
I see no reference made to Jesus "ASSURING" us that "AFTER" His death and resurrection He "WOULD" raise up a slave. Where do you JW's get a "FUTURE" appointment from that verse?
JESUS assured us that after his death and resurrection, he would raise up a “faithful and discreet slave” that would serve as his channel of communication. (Matthew 24:45-47)
Mat 24:45-47 (ESVST) 45 " Who then is the faithful and wise servant, whom his master has set over his household, to give them their food at the proper time? 46 Blessed is that servant whom his master will find so doing when he comes. 47 Truly, I say to you, he will set him over all his possessions.
I see no reference made to Jesus "ASSURING" us that "AFTER" His death and resurrection He "WOULD" raise up a slave. Where do you JW's get a "FUTURE" appointment from that verse?
katiemygirl
CHRISTIAN
One of your Popes refers to her as co- mediator, co-redeemer and co-advocate.
Pope Leo XIII: “The recourse we have to Mary in prayer follows upon the office she continuously fills by the side of the throne of God as Mediatrix of Divine grace; being by worthiness and by merit most acceptable to Him, and, therefore, surpassing in power all the angels and saints in Heaven. Now, this merciful office of hers, perhaps, appears in no other form of prayer so manifestly as it does in the Rosary. For in the Rosary all the part that Mary took as our co-Redemptress comes to us, as it were, set forth, and in such wise as though the facts were even then taking place; and this with much profit to our piety, whether in the contemplation of the succeeding sacred mysteries, or in the prayers which we speak and repeat with the lips.” (Iucunda Semper Expectatione, n. 2)
djhwoodwerks
Well-Known Member
*** ka chap. 17 p. 348 par. 36 The “Slave” Who Lived to See the “Sign” ***
36 The end of the Gentile Times about October 4/5 of 1914 found World War I already in progress for more than two months. This was something new, not only for the world of mankind, but also for the Master’s “slave” class. World War I far exceeded in violence and destructiveness the foretold “wars and reports of wars” and the rise of nation against nation and of kingdom against kingdom such as marked the years after Jesus’ ascension to heaven in 33 C.E. (Matthew 24:6, 7)
Has the Gentile times ended? Not yet!
Why would the WT claim that WW1 was the start of prophecy? There were wars before WW1 and worse wars after WW1. Only to keep their false teachings.
War was something new?
Fought 1642-1651, the English Civil War saw King Charles I battle Parliament. The war began as a result of a conflict over the power of the monarchy and the rights of Parliament. During the early phases of the war, the Parliamentarians expected to retain Charles as king, but with expanded powers for Parliament.
The American Revolutionary War (1775-1783), also known as the American War of Independence, was a war between the Kingdom of Great Britain and thirteen British colonies on the North American continent (as well as some naval conflict).
The French Revolutionary & Napoleonic Wars began in 1792, just three years after the beginning of the French Revolution. Quickly becoming a global conflict, the French Revolutionary Wars saw France battling coalitions of European allies. This approach continued with the rise of Napoleon Bonaparte and the start of the Napoleonic Wars in 1803.
The War of 1812 was fought between the United States and Great Britain and lasted from 1812 to 1815. Resulting from American anger over trade issues, impressment of sailors, and British support of Indian attacks on the frontier, the conflict saw the US Army attempt to invade Canada while British forces attacked south.
Why didn't the prophecy start with WW2, it was the most destructive and deadly war? WW1 comes in at 7th.
36 The end of the Gentile Times about October 4/5 of 1914 found World War I already in progress for more than two months. This was something new, not only for the world of mankind, but also for the Master’s “slave” class. World War I far exceeded in violence and destructiveness the foretold “wars and reports of wars” and the rise of nation against nation and of kingdom against kingdom such as marked the years after Jesus’ ascension to heaven in 33 C.E. (Matthew 24:6, 7)
Has the Gentile times ended? Not yet!
Why would the WT claim that WW1 was the start of prophecy? There were wars before WW1 and worse wars after WW1. Only to keep their false teachings.
War was something new?
Fought 1642-1651, the English Civil War saw King Charles I battle Parliament. The war began as a result of a conflict over the power of the monarchy and the rights of Parliament. During the early phases of the war, the Parliamentarians expected to retain Charles as king, but with expanded powers for Parliament.
The American Revolutionary War (1775-1783), also known as the American War of Independence, was a war between the Kingdom of Great Britain and thirteen British colonies on the North American continent (as well as some naval conflict).
The French Revolutionary & Napoleonic Wars began in 1792, just three years after the beginning of the French Revolution. Quickly becoming a global conflict, the French Revolutionary Wars saw France battling coalitions of European allies. This approach continued with the rise of Napoleon Bonaparte and the start of the Napoleonic Wars in 1803.
The War of 1812 was fought between the United States and Great Britain and lasted from 1812 to 1815. Resulting from American anger over trade issues, impressment of sailors, and British support of Indian attacks on the frontier, the conflict saw the US Army attempt to invade Canada while British forces attacked south.
Why didn't the prophecy start with WW2, it was the most destructive and deadly war? WW1 comes in at 7th.
New International Version
For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus, (1Timothy 2:5)
"For this reason He is the mediator of a new covenant, so that, since a death has taken place for the redemption of the transgressions that were committed under the first covenant, those who have been called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance." (Hebrews 9:15)
Well, what are the essential beliefs? What's the afterlife like? What will we be doing? Can we become gods? I'm just curious as if the video was wrong then please explain why and where it was