How powerful are the Gods?

[Whiterain]

How powerful are the Gods?

I think they are quite powerful, but not at the demands Man has been set to pray and request for. Omnipotence, Omniscience, Omnipresence, that's for the desperate.

I am at peace with the Gods. I demand nothing and they request little of me.

I'm not here to tell you how powerful they are, just make discussion.

I believe they're real and extremely powerful, but on their own time.

The pantheons are demolished. Now many of us are rediscovering the Gods.

 

[Jainarayan]

I too don't believe the Gods are omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent or omni-anything-else. I think they are beings on a higher plane than we are. They may very well be what they represent. That is, Thor is thunder, thunder is real, so Thor is real. Odin is war, he is death, he is poetry. These are things that are intangible to us but they are real things. We're locked into this plane and tend to (or have to) anthropomorphize. The Gods do what they do, with or without us. I know, that was all kind of trippy, but I've had a hellacious week.

 

[Whiterain]

I try not to judge anyone.

The Gods welcomed themselves to me, more or less... I do not try and articulate them either.

I'm trying to write this in a way that isn't offensive...

They are.............

They are.............

They are.............

Real.

Gods.

I have no other way to put it. They are Gods. Super-natural, metaphysical, paranormal.

I would like to go on further but I would now ask for permission.

I will go on about Loki, I will go on about Odin... I will go on about many Gods... But I will mention Thoth liberally. I know nothing about Egyptian gods. He helped me the most.

He's amazing... He has lore, he has many teaching. I had forgotten about him until this track hit the speakers.

It may have nothing to do with him.. He taught me so much about my mind though..

If it weren't for Thoth I would have been LONG GONE... Alas in some psyche ward....

His teachings to me.. Inexplicable.

I will go ahead an teach you.

He taught me to spin the circle around the dot. That is it.

May not seem like much but I would have been in a psyche ward long ago if it weren't for this delusions teachings.

My own denial factor has just wore off... Please bare with me.

edit: sacrament was wrong word.

 

[Whiterain]

Spin this circle. Tell me that's not a major cerebral function in the brain... MY BRAIN TAUGHT ME THAT!!!

 

[Quintessence]

Collectively, the gods are omni-max. Individually, all assessments are comparative and therefore subjective. To me, if one is making one's assessment about gods about power, one is missing the mark. One should aspire to appreciate the intrinsic value, nature, and abilities of each of the gods as they are instead of falling into the trap of hierarchical thinking and competitive contests. All things have their place. And without all the things, the entire Weave - the interdependent and interconnected reality of which we are a part - unravels.

That said, I am quite fond of saying my gods are the true powers in this world. One of them quite literally anchors our entire planet in space; another, when we lack it for a five minutes, produces severe and irreparable brain damage; others still are the patrons of all civilizations and ecosystems. No gods = no reality. 'Tis why "atheism" tends to confuse the $#@% out of me, because when someone says they disbelieve in gods, my brain defaults to "uh... so you disbelieve in the sun, air, water, and trees? You're a nutter, sir."

 

[Whiterain]

Thanks, Quintessence.

I am in awe by them or my own brains capacity for such awesomeness.

I'm flabbergasted by my mind if it did create these beings to help me. They've done so much for, it's amazing.

Then I think if I created these beings, these are effigies or parts of my ego, or super ego. Someone already told me they have nothing to do with being part of my personality or ego, which I understand.

There's no reconciling the carnage and grotesque disease and genocide of history though, if people want Gods to cry to they're not the right one's.

 

[carl.obrien]

I'm interested. Are the gods persons, like us, with desires and intentions or abstract ideas, like Beauty, or Laws, like gravity? Or some mix of the three?

 

[Sees]

I'm interested. Are the gods persons, like us, with desires and intentions or abstract ideas, like Beauty, or Laws, like gravity? Or some mix of the three?

For many of us they are a mix and we simply relate to and comprehend certain aspects to different, always limited, degrees. Your own personal theology will tend to adapt and evolve over time and any "this is what Gods are - that is what they are not" being put down dogmatically, is pretty rare amongst pagan folks. It's generally part of the pluralistic, inclusive nature of most pagan traditions/paths to avoid oversimplifying and boxing in.

 

[Whiterain]

Ya they seem to manifest as human beings but are super naturally powerful and communicate telepathically.

But most people seem them as metaphors for the elements.

 

[carl.obrien]

I'm not looking to over-simplify or box anything in, I'm just trying to understand. I point at something and say, "Look! A tree!" You look at it and agree. Are the gods not like that? Is it not possible to say "Look! Thor!" and you nod?

 

[Whiterain]

If I'm not totally schizophrenic, I don't believe I am, but it's good for a disability check as I am instructed to do.

They communicate with each other telepathically, they may be on the other side of the planet. Omniscience?

It's not as if I recognize Thor as you may recognize Thor.

I have had been bashful in trying to approach them. If I ever see one of them again I very likely will endure the proceeding humiliation and talk to them in person.

It's like confronting someone that knows your most humiliating secrets. I wasn't trying to get humiliated, I just wanted to have some beers and follow further instructions, so far they're sincere in my safety and guiding me through this disability process.

No Jihad.

 

[Jainarayan]

I'm not looking to over-simplify or box anything in, I'm just trying to understand. I point at something and say, "Look! A tree!" You look at it and agree. Are the gods not like that? Is it not possible to say "Look! Thor!" and you nod?

Would I look at a tree and see Thor? No. Why? Because Thor is thunder. He's not the god of thunder, he is thunder. When I hear and see a thunderstorm, I know it's Thor. The tree may have a vaettir (spirit, wight) of its own. And while everything is divine (created by Odin and his brothers), not everything is a God(dess). Does that answer?

 

[carl.obrien]

Sorry. What I meant was that we can both agree on objective things when we see them, like trees, but I was wondering if we both can agree about the gods. You see them as metaphors, Whiterain seems to think they're like people with intentions and desires. Which one is right?

 

[Jainarayan]

Sorry. What I meant was that we can both agree on objective things when we see them, like trees, but I was wondering if we both can agree about the gods. You see them as metaphors, Whiterain seems to think they're like people with intentions and desires. Which one is right?

Both can be right. There's a saying in an Indian language that translates loosely as "everyone sees God(dess) in their own way", or "God(dess) shows him/herself in a way meaningful to the devotee". Despite the way it may appear I don't think the gods are metaphors or archetypes. They are real beings, but Thor is not some huge muscled powerlifter with red hair, red beard and fiery temper who barrels through the clouds in a goat-drawn chariot. That's just how we relate to him and an image that's come down through the ages. But if a huge muscled powerlifter flinging a hammer around works as a focus of worship or an image of the god, that's great. No harm no foul no right-or-wrong. Thunder is real, death is real, poetry is real, fertility is real. We are stuck, trapped, boxed-in to this "reality", so we see things according to our laws of physics. Lots of metaphysical, mystical and other-dimension stuff going on. I know... it's really and trippy.

 

[carl.obrien]

That's what's confusing me. You say "the gods show themselves in ways meaningful to the devotee," but how do they appear to each other? In other words, if humanity were to get killed off, what would they be? I want to know what they are divorced from our preceptions.

 

[Jainarayan]

That's what's confusing me. You say "the gods show themselves in ways meaningful to the devotee," but how do they appear to each other? In other words, if humanity were to get killed off, what would they be? I want to know what they are divorced from our preceptions.

They'd still exist as they are. But we don't know what they really are, so we can't know how they appear to each other.

 

[beenherebeforeagain]

Both can be right. There's a saying in an Indian language that translates loosely as "everyone sees God(dess) in their own way", or "God(dess) shows him/herself in a way meaningful to the devotee". Despite the way it may appear I don't think the gods are metaphors or archetypes. They are real beings, but Thor is not some huge muscled powerlifter with red hair, red beard and fiery temper who barrels through the clouds in a goat-drawn chariot. That's just how we relate to him and an image that's come down through the ages. But if a huge muscled powerlifter flinging a hammer around works as a focus of worship or an image of the god, that's great. No harm no foul no right-or-wrong. Thunder is real, death is real, poetry is real, fertility is real. We are stuck, trapped, boxed-in to this "reality", so we see things according to our laws of physics. Lots of metaphysical, mystical and other-dimension stuff going on. I know... it's really and trippy.

Maybe one could say that the depictions we create are metaphors, or depict archetypes, but they are not what is represented, just ways of talking about the "metaphysical, mystical and other-dimension stuff going on." As you say, a way of relating to the deity.

 

[Jainarayan]

Maybe one could say that the depictions we create are metaphors, or depict archetypes, but they are not what is represented, just ways of talking about the "metaphysical, mystical and other-dimension stuff going on." As you say, a way of relating to the deity.

In the Bhagavad Gita 12.5 Krishna explains that it's very difficult to progress spiritually if we try to focus on the unmanifest. We are just too limited. Therefore we need some kind of image to relate to.

 

[Whiterain]

Sickening amount of troll on this forum, I ain't one.

 

[beenherebeforeagain]

In the Bhagavad Gita 12.5 Krishna explains that it's very difficult to progress spiritually if we try to focus on the unmanifest. We are just too limited. Therefore we need some kind of image to relate to.

makes sense to me!