The Trinity

[Yes]

Right. And neither are some people born with black skin. It "becomes" black later.

You have nothing to back up your claim that people are born gay.

 

[Yes]

Out of context, you can make them mean that. But out of context often changes the intended meaning.

The scriptures are clear, you just cannot see. It has not been given to you.

 

[sojourner]

The scriptures are clear, you just cannot see. It has not been given to you.

Flimsy excuse/justification. "I'm right -- you're wrong (because you're [obviously] blind)" isn't a valid argument. Your argument cannot stand or fall on my qualifications. It has to stand on its own merits with its own factual support. Have you any?

 

[sojourner]

You have nothing to back up your claim that people are born gay.

You have nothing to back up your claim that they're not.

 

[kjv4me2you]

I am glad that you will answer the questions, even if I have to wait a couple of days. You might find them simple enough to answer quickly.


Remember, you said Jesus is not God, so then, you must then teach that God and Jesus are not interchangeable. So then, make sure you only give one person for each answer.



Who will we bow to, God or Jesus?

I know who bowed down to the saints.

(Rev 3:9 KJV) Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship-bow before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.

Does that count and are the saints interchangeable with God and Jesus? Do you think being bowed to makes you God or Jesus? Evidently Rev 3:9 indicates it does not.

Have you overlooked Rev 3:9 in your quest and test to prove your trinity doctrine?


Who is the light, God or Jesus?


Through who was everything made, through God or Jesus?

Who is the First and the Last, God or Jesus?


Is God our Savior, or is Jesus our Savior?


Who is our Redeemer, God or Jesus?



Who is the Shepherd, God or Jesus?



Who is our Rock, God or Jesus?



Whose commands are they, God's, or Jesus'?


Who sends the Holy Spirit, God, or Jesus?


Who pours out the Holy Spirit, God, or Jesus?

 

[kjv4me2you]

I am glad that you will answer the questions, even if I have to wait a couple of days. You might find them simple enough to answer quickly.


Remember, you said Jesus is not God, so then, you must then teach that God and Jesus are not interchangeable. So then, make sure you only give one person for each answer.



Who will we bow to, God or Jesus?

Who is the light, God or Jesus?


Through who was everything made, through God or Jesus?

Who is the First and the Last, God or Jesus?


Is God our Savior, or is Jesus our Savior?


Who is our Redeemer, God or Jesus?



Who is the Shepherd, God or Jesus?



Who is our Rock, God or Jesus?



Whose commands are they, God's, or Jesus'?


Who sends the Holy Spirit, God, or Jesus?


Who pours out the Holy Spirit, God, or Jesus?

..........
Because you wanted only one word answers to your questions it would only be right and just if you only gave one word replies to your post.

Who will we bow to, God or Jesus?

I know who bowed down to the saints.

(Rev 3:9 KJV) Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship-bow before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.

Does that count and are the saints interchangeable with God and Jesus? Do you think being bowed to makes you God or Jesus? Evidently Rev 3:9 indicates it does not.
......
(Eph 4:14 KJV) That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
................
Who is the light, God or Jesus?

(Mat 6:22 KJV) The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.

Is the "eye" God or Jesus? Of course not.
...........
Through who was everything made, through God or Jesus?

Jesus answered you question (Luke 10:21 KJV) In that hour Jesus rejoiced in spirit, and said, I thank thee, O Father, YHWH-YeHoWaH-YaH of heaven and earth, that thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes: even so, Father; for so it seemed good in thy sight.

Paul also answered the same as did Jesus. (Acts 17:24 KJV) God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is YHWH_YeHoWaH-YaH of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands;
..........
Who is the First and the Last, God or Jesus?
The angel of Rev 22:8 said he was the Alpha ( First ) and ( Omega ) Last. Did that make the angel God or Jesus? Nope but it does make your question irrelevant.

.......
(Rev 22:8 KJV) And I John saw these things, and heard them. And when I had heard and seen, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel which showed me these things.

(Rev 22:9 KJV) Then saith he ( the angel ) unto me, See thou do it not: for I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book: worship God.

The angel said in (Rev 22:13 KJV) I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.
..........
Is God our Savior, or is Jesus our Savior?

God is the Saviour of Israel who gave saviours and one of those saviours that YHWH-YeHoWaH-YaH gave to Israel was Jesus that Christ of YHWH-YaH. The saviours that God gave Israel were not God but some were called gods in scripture such as Moses and David.

(Exo 7:1 KJV) And the LORD said unto Moses, See, I have made thee a god to Pharaoh: and Aaron thy brother shall be thy prophet.

(Zec 12:8 KJV) In that day shall YHWH-YaH defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem; and he that is feeble among them at that day shall be as David; and the house of David shall be as God, as the angel of YHWH-YaH before them.

(Neh 9:27 KJV) Therefore thou deliveredst them into the hand of their enemies, who vexed them: and in the time of their trouble, when they cried unto thee, thou heardest them from heaven; and according to thy manifold mercies thou-God gavest them-Israel saviours, who saved them out of the hand of their enemies.

(2 Ki 13:5 KJV) (And YHWH-YeHoWaH-YaH gave Israel a saviour, so that they went out from under the hand of the Syrians: and the children of Israel dwelt in their tents, as beforetime.

(Acts 13:22 KJV) And when he-YHWH-YaH had removed him, he-Yah raised up unto them David to be their king; to whom also he-YaH gave testimony, and said, I-YHWH-YeHoWaH-YaH have found David the son of Jesse, a man after mine own heart, which shall fulfil all my will.

(Acts 13:23 KJV) Of this man's seed hath God according to his promise raised unto Israel a Saviour, Jesus:

God is Saviour of all men whereas Jesus the seed of the man David was a saviour given by YHWH-YaH as a saviour of Israel.
......
willyah

 

[Sonofason]

You know what, people just are who they are and they should be accepted for who they are. Not "Being born gay" shouldn't be used as a reason for not accepting them as they are. I happen to think that at least some are born with that orientation. I've known too many who say, "I've always felt this way." I know that even I, as a heterosexual, have always felt attracted to girls/women. It didn't "dawn on me" all of a sudden at some point. Whether or not people are "born gay," I think that, at the very least, one's orientation is developed at a very young age. Nonetheless, the scientific community has determined that a homosexual orientation is natural and healthy. So I accept people as they are, without poking my nose into their bedrooms.

I don't care what people do in their bedrooms. I don't want to know about it. I don't want my kids to know about it. I don't want people telling my children its an acceptable way of life. It isn't.

 

[Sonofason]

That contradicts what science tells us. People are born gay. There is evidence of genetic differences.

Show the genetic evidence.

 

[sojourner]

I don't care what people do in their bedrooms. I don't want to know about it. I don't want my kids to know about it. I don't want people telling my children its an acceptable way of life. It isn't.

So... you don't want people telling your kids the truth. You'd rather perpetuate your own bigotry.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

How did a thread about the Trinity get derailed into talking about homosexuality?!

 

[Muffled]

No, I'm suggesting that the Holy Spirit is "like" another person in that He exhibits and disseminates certain attributes of God that we often distinguish and separate from God's other attributes. And in the same sense, I am suggesting that Jesus is like another person as He exhibits and disseminates other attributes of God that pertain only to Himself.

One could say "Oh Holy Spirit come into my life." Similarly, one could say, Oh God let thy spirit come into my life. There is no difference between God's Spirit, and the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is a personification of the attributes of God that are bounded up in the term that is being used.

I don't believe there is any evidence to support this concept.

I believe there is no difference between the Spirit of God that is everywhere and the one that is in believers in essence but there is a great deal of difference in function.

I don't believe it is valid to personify attributes.

 

[Muffled]

Right, it is the wisdom and power of God. I lke in Luke when Gabriel is taking to Mary. "And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Spirit shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God."

I believe "and" does not mean "equal" but in many cases means "also." In order to equate the two one must have other evidence. However I do not believe the power of God is something separate from God as though it had an existence of its own any more than the wisdom of God has any existence on its own. I believe that is personifying aspects of God which has no evidence to support it.

 

[Muffled]

It is strange that supporters of the trinity ignore the elephant in Mathew 28:19 -- What is the name of the Holy Spirit?

I mean, how can you baptize a Christian in the name of the Holy Spirit if his name is not mentioned? Furthermore, most Christians are not baptized in the name of the Father. Maybe because the name of the Father is not even mentioned in the New Testament.

Clearly the verse at Matthew 28:19 was inserted about a hundred years later (2nd century AD) to support he trinity doctrine and thus it was forced upon Christians who had disagreed.

I believe these titles serve as names, as titles often do like Carpenter or Smith.

I don't believe there is any evidence to support this.

I believe church organizations have a tendency to mandate practices but I don't believe they have ever needed the Bible as an excuse to do so.

 

[Muffled]

So... you don't want people telling your kids the truth. You'd rather perpetuate your own bigotry.

i believe you can call it bigotry if you want but I call it the law of God. So basicly if I must be a bigot at least I am a righteous bigot instead of a wicked and evil perpetuator.

I believe I always tell the truth according to God's will.

 

[moorea944]

I believe "and" does not mean "equal" but in many cases means "also." In order to equate the two one must have other evidence. However I do not believe the power of God is something separate from God as though it had an existence of its own any more than the wisdom of God has any existence on its own. I believe that is personifying aspects of God which has no evidence to support it.

Good point. It's like saying, is the sun's rays equal to the sun..... Are the sun's rays actually the sun it's self? No, of course not. There is the sun and omits it's power through the rays of light. lol I think I said that right... :>) And that's what I believe in when I read about the Holy Spirit or the Spirit of God. It can sometimes be personified, like other things like, wisdom, sin, etc. The cedar trees of Lebanon cry out, where are the axe men to cut us down? Can trees really talk? Nope. So we need to be careful on the language of the bible and try to understand context. But your post was good, thank you.

 

[sojourner]

i believe you can call it bigotry if you want but I call it the law of God. So basicly if I must be a bigot at least I am a righteous bigot instead of a wicked and evil perpetuator.

I believe I always tell the truth according to God's will.

Bigotry is bigotry and it's always evil. There is no such thing as "righteous bigotry." God's law is inclusive -- not exclusive. You are telling the truth according to what you wish to understand -- not according to some objective standard.

 

[Sonofason]

So... you don't want people telling your kids the truth. You'd rather perpetuate your own bigotry.

My children are very well aware of the depraved behaviors that some individuals engage in. Yet they are just as aware of the necessity of being kind, even to the depraved.

 

[sojourner]

My children are very well aware of the depraved behaviors that some individuals engage in. Yet they are just as aware of the necessity of being kind, even to the depraved.

Bigotry is never kind.

 

[Sonofason]

Bigotry is never kind.

Well then, get used to it. I'm not changing my opinions for you or anyone else.

 

[Sonofason]

I'm a proud bigot, and everyone is going to live with that. Too bad.