• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Science 3, God 0

shawn001

Well-Known Member
Yes, he can give me whatever disease he likes, I'm supposed to praise him in all conditions. If I have done good deeds and followed Allah's commandments then death will take me to better place, I will die smiling.
why God created different religions? God has created only one religion. Muslim means a person who surrenders to God. All messengers and all those who followed them were Muslims, but name 'Muslim' was given for the first time in the age of Abraham peace be upon him. Abraham's son Isac and Isac's son Jacob ( may peace be upon them all) were all Muslims. And Jacob begat all tribes of Banu Israil. And last messenger came with same religion. In the age of last and final messenger, Jews and Christians were debating with each other, Jews were saying Abraham was a Jew and Christians were arguing that Abraham was a Christian, and we have beautiful answer in last book of God almighty
"Abraham was neither a Jew nor a Christian, but he was one inclining toward truth, a Muslim [submitting to Allah ]. And he was not of the polytheists. " Quran 3:67



Its my understanding from studying the history of religions for many years now that Abraham was Sumerian from the city of UR.

You do know we can trace the history of religions back father then Judaism, Christianity and Islam.

"why God created different religions? God has created only one religion."

you know this how?

Didn't God create everything?


"And he was not of the polytheists"

That was because earlier there was Zoroaster


A Zoroastrian is an adherent to Zoroastrianism, the first monotheistic religion, that is based on the teachings and philosophies of Zoroaster.

Zoroastrianism is a religion and philosophy based on the teachings of prophet Zoroaster (or Zarathustra - Persian). The term Zoroastrianism is, in general usage, essentially synonymous with Mazdaism, i.e. the worship of Ahura Mazda, exalted by Zoroaster (Zarathustra) as the supreme divine authority. Along with Hinduism, Zoroastrianism is considered to be among the oldest religions in the world.


Zoroastrianism is the ancient, pre-Islamic religion of Persia (modern Iran). It survives there in isolated areas but more prosperously in India, where the descendants of Zoroastrian Persian immigrants are known as Parsis, or Parsees. In India the religion is called Parsiism.

Founded by the Iranian prophet and reformer Zoroaster in the 6th century BC, Zoroastrianism contains both monotheistic and dualistic features. Its concepts of one God, judgment, heaven and hell likely influenced the major Western religons of Judaism, Christianity, and Islam.


Zarathustra (in Greek, Zoroaster) was a Persian prophet who at the age of 30 believed he had seen visions of God, whom he called Ahura Mazda, the creator of all that is good and who alone is worthy of worship. This was a departure from previous Indo-Persian polytheism, and Zarathustra has been termed the first non-biblical monotheist. There is disagreement among scholars as to exactly when and where Zarathustra lived, but most agree that he lived in eastern Iran around the sixth century BC.


Beliefs
The Zoroastrian concept of God incorporates both monotheism and dualism. In his visions, Zarathustra was taken up to heaven, where Ahura Mazda revealed that he had an opponent, Aura Mainyu, the spirit and promoter of evil. Ahura Mazda charged Zarathustra with the task of inviting all human beings to choose between him (good) and Aura Mainyu (evil).


Though Zoroastrianism was never as aggressively monotheistic as Judaism or Islam, it does represent an original attempt at unifying under the worship of one supreme god a polytheistic religion comparable to those of the ancient Greeks, Latins, Indians, and other early peoples.

Its other salient feature, namely dualism, was never understood in an absolute, rigorous fashion. Good and Evil fight an unequal battle in which the former is assured of triumph. God's omnipotence is thus only temporarily limited.

Zoroaster taught that man must enlist in this cosmic struggle because of his capacity of free choice. Thus Zoroastrianism is a highly ethical religion in which the choice of good over evil has almost cosmic importance. Zarathustra taught that humans are free to choose between right and wrong, truth and lie, and light and dark, and that their choices would affect their eternity destiny.

The Zoroastrian afterlife is determined by the balance of the good and evil deeds, words, and thoughts of the whole life. For those whose good deeds outweight the bad, heaven awaits. Those who did more evil than good go to hell (which has several levels corresponding to degrees of wickedness). There is an intermediate stage for those whose deeds weight out equally.

Zoroaster invoked saviors who, like the dawns of new days, would come to the world. He hoped himself to be one of them. After his death, the belief in coming saviors developed. He also incorporated belief in angels and demons.


Zoroaster's ideas of ethical monotheism, heaven, hell, angelology, the resurrection of the body, and the messiah figure were influential on Judaism, Christianity, and Islam, though to what extent is not known for certain.



Zoroastrianism - ReligionFacts
 

Farrukh

Active Member
"why God created different religions? God has created only one religion."
you know this how?
Didn't God create everything?

it is simple to understand, Jesus peace be upon him is written as Isa in Arabic, in our native language, we call Christians as Isai(meaning followers of Isa, Isai from Isa). Christians were good Muslims on start, but obviously as time passed, their Scholars changed real commandments of Allah.
Regarding Zoroastrianism, logic is simple, there was prophet Zoroaster, though i have no knowledge about that, you mentioned it yourself, and belief is known as Zoroastrianism.
According to a saying of Prophet Muhammad Peace be upon him, Allah the God Almighty has sent about 124,000 prophets, and all of them called people to worship one God, though we know very few of them by name. And now when you mentioned about Zoroastrianism, I studied about it and I'm amazed to know that Muhammad Peace be upon him is mentioned in their Parsi Scriptures 'Zend Avesta', Dasatir and Bundahish, you can study four pages here for reference pt.slideshare.net/zakir2012/introduction-to-zoroastrianism-by-dr-zakir-naik
 

Mycroft

Ministry of Serendipity
who said that? I can give you many examples when prayers were answered immediately.

there are three possibilities,
1. you will get whatever you are praying for.
2. the thing you are asking may not be good for you, so you will not get it, not getting that will be in your benefit.
3. you will get reward hereafter as prayer is also a form of worship. i will ask you for something only if i know that you can give me that thing. Similarly i will ask God for something if I believe that he has power and ability to provide me that thing.

I think he means it provides no measurable (by science) benefit and only vicarious benefit to the person.
 

Farrukh

Active Member
I think he means it provides no measurable (by science) benefit and only vicarious benefit to the person.

Nice, I know from saying of Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him "Allah has never created a disease but created its treatment, that is known by some people and unknown to others, except death. (At-Tabarani)"
what you say, it is now 2014, why not scientist able to cure death? how a person can say this thing 1400 years ago that scientists will never be able to cure death. ??
 

Mycroft

Ministry of Serendipity
Nice, I know from saying of Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him "Allah has never created a disease but created its treatment, that is known by some people and unknown to others, except death. (At-Tabarani)"
what you say, it is now 2014, why not scientist able to cure death? how a person can say this thing 1400 years ago that scientists will never be able to cure death. ??


But we can. We're close. We have found the mechanism that cause ageing. Even delayed ageing/prevented it in some cases. The questions are, merely, should we cure death?

Anti-Aging Pill Targets Telomeres at the Ends of Chromosomes - Scientific American

New Membrane Keeps Your Heart Beating | I ******* Love Science

http://web.mit.edu/newsoffice/2013/editing-the-genome-with-high-precision-0103.html

https://www.healthtap.com/user_ques...ing-the-faulty-collagen-to-normal-how-amazing

While not having gotten to the actual immortality stage yet, we can make humans live up to five times longer than they currently do.
 
Last edited:

Farrukh

Active Member
While not having gotten to the actual immortality stage yet, we can make humans live up to five times longer than they currently do.

it is just a joke, our ancestors lived for 1000 years without any medicines, what thing kept them alive? do you know about that? first person on earth, Adam Alaihi Salam lived for 960 years. you must believe revelation for knowing truth, last and Final messenger Muhammad peace be upon him told us that average age of my Ummah(people) will be from 60-70 years. I have a question for you, do you know from science, how these people were destroyed? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thamud
I'm not denying importance of Science in our lives, but I've not came across single finding of Science that is against Quran, or against what Muhammad peace be upon him told us.
 
Last edited:

shawn001

Well-Known Member
it is just a joke, our ancestors lived for 1000 years without any medicines, what thing kept them alive? do you know about that? first person on earth, Adam Alaihi Salam lived for 960 years. you must believe revelation for knowing truth, last and Final messenger Muhammad peace be upon him told us that average age of my Ummah(people) will be from 60-70 years. I have a question for you, do you know from science, how these people were destroyed? Thamud - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
I'm not denying importance of Science in our lives, but I've not came across single finding of Science that is against Quran, or against what Muhammad peace be upon him told us.


Adam , was how many "Cubits" tall?
 

psychoslice

Veteran Member
Actually in the Buddhist monk brain Scans and meditation parts of the brain involved in happiness were larger then those who did not meditate. It can also clear your mind, like rebooting the computer.

Part of this is chemical reactions as well. They trigger some of the same parts of the brain involved in addiction. Some people replace addictions with religion they both reward some of the same parts of the brain and brain chemicals.

The placebo effect however is very strong as well and should never be overlooked and should be better understood in neurobiology.

Yes I see what your saying, but a placebo is a placebo, no matter how we use it.
 

shawn001

Well-Known Member
it is simple to understand, Jesus peace be upon him is written as Isa in Arabic, in our native language, we call Christians as Isai(meaning followers of Isa, Isai from Isa). Christians were good Muslims on start, but obviously as time passed, their Scholars changed real commandments of Allah.
Regarding Zoroastrianism, logic is simple, there was prophet Zoroaster, though i have no knowledge about that, you mentioned it yourself, and belief is known as Zoroastrianism.
According to a saying of Prophet Muhammad Peace be upon him, Allah the God Almighty has sent about 124,000 prophets, and all of them called people to worship one God, though we know very few of them by name. And now when you mentioned about Zoroastrianism, I studied about it and I'm amazed to know that Muhammad Peace be upon him is mentioned in their Parsi Scriptures 'Zend Avesta', Dasatir and Bundahish, you can study four pages here for reference pt.slideshare.net/zakir2012/introduction-to-zoroastrianism-by-dr-zakir-naik

I Have already studied it and the roots of many traditional religions, its where the idea for monotheism came from basically. Its the evolution of religions themselves.

One reason I pointed it out to you.
 

shawn001

Well-Known Member
Yes I see what your saying, but a placebo is a placebo, no matter how we use it.

The placebo is very powerful and some doctors would like to tap in to that but it is difficult and complex situation ethically. Brains scans show the placebo also lights up the prefrontal cortex, which is also where the prayer is activated, but I am not saying it completely correlated.
 

psychoslice

Veteran Member
The placebo is very powerful and some doctors would like to tap in to that but it is difficult and complex situation ethically. Brains scans show the placebo also lights up the prefrontal cortex, which is also where the prayer is activated, but I am not saying it completely correlated.

Yes, as they say mind over matter, but still its all in the mind, and that is why it can work at times, but certainly not all the time.
 

Farrukh

Active Member
Adam , was how many "Cubits" tall?
according to saying of Holy Prophet, Adam alahe salam was 60 cubits(90ft) tall
"Sahih Bukhari, Volume 4, Book 55, Number 543"
by the way have you ever seen a monkey evolving as human being? :D
 

chinu

chinu
People all around the world every day pray and pray for their cancer, leukemia or HIV to be miraculously taken away. It never happens. Ever.
In the meantime, however, Science has cured both:
Thoughts? :)
Very... Good!

Let me explain you with a story, How God cure his people. :)

Once there was a heavy flood in the village. As the water level was rising more and more, all people were standing on the roofs of their houses. And within a time one life boat came to save the people. But one man refused to go with that life boat by saying.. "Am a big devotee, So I need not your help, God will save me "

After some time water level raised more, and now this man was standing on the second floor and again one life boat came to save his life, But again this man refused going with them by saying the same.

Now, After some time water level raised more, and now this man was standing on the third floor, again one life boat came to him, but again he refused by saying the same. And finally he died by sinking in the water.

Now, after death this man was standing in front of God in his place.
He asked; O God! why didn't you saved my life ?
Said God; Three times I send the life boat for you, but you refused, Its not my fault, Child. :D

Well, I hope now you can understand my point, How God cure his people ;)

_/\_Chinu
 

shawn001

Well-Known Member
according to saying of Holy Prophet, Adam alahe salam was 60 cubits(90ft) tall
"Sahih Bukhari, Volume 4, Book 55, Number 543"
by the way have you ever seen a monkey evolving as human being? :D


Yes 90' feet tall

How tall was EVE then?

and then what happened that we are as tall as we are today?

"by the way have you ever seen a monkey evolving as human being?"

"Such is the human race, often it seems a pity that Noah... didn't miss the boat."
Mark Twain
 

Breathe

Hostis humani generis
The word miracle is actually used in many different fashions by folks. I've heard of the fashions being classified as "strong" miracles and "weak" miracles.

A "strong" miracle seems to be what most hardline "skeptics" claim does not exist - something completely inexplicable and supernaturalistic.

A "weak" miracle is something that can quite feasibly have a naturalistic explanation, but inspires a sense of sublime or magical awe in the beholder.

I don't think it can reasonably be argued that weak miracles don't happen given it's a very human emotional response to something wondrous. Strong miracles are another matter. Personally, I prefer to fence-sit on this one, because I don't particularly care given I don't use the word "miracle" to classify events in my path. For me, all things that happen are of the gods. It makes no difference if it is scientific or not because the gods govern science itself. Thus, I had to laugh at the thread title, because for me, the score would always read: Science 3, Gods 3. They're the same thing to me.
I totally get where you're coming from.
Unfortunately, our opinions don't matter because we don't fit the pigeonhole. :sad:
 

rusra02

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
People all around the world every day pray and pray for their cancer, leukemia or HIV to be miraculously taken away. It never happens. Ever.

In the meantime, however, Science has cured both:

Scientists Create Genetically Modified Cells That Protect Against HIV

HIV cleared in 2nd baby.

CAR T-Cell Immunotherapy for ALL - National Cancer Institute

Living Drug beats cancer

Thoughts? :)

I applaud the work done by dedicated scientists to relive suffering. On the other hand, consider these facts:

Science has caused tremendous suffering for many, including dread diseases from radiation, chemicals, pollution, and fiendish war weapons.

Jesus cured all who came to him. (Matthew 15:30) He raised persons from the dead, including one man who had been dead 4 days. (John 11:39-44)

God promises that soon, "death will be no more, neither will mourning nor outcry nor pain be anymore. The former things have passed away.” (Revelation 21:3,4)
 

Mycroft

Ministry of Serendipity
it is just a joke, our ancestors lived for 1000 years without any medicines, what thing kept them alive?

Since all of the evidence we've found suggests early humans only lived to be as old as 20-30 years old before dying of various things (usually infections), I must reject your claim that they lived to one thousand years old.
 
Top