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Quest for the historical Jesus
- Thread starter steeltoes
- Start date
Many years ago.
outhouse
Atheistically
Oct 13, 2011
Sep 23, 2011.
You never got your user name changed?
Or were you someone else before Jayhawker Soule
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I am not sure what you're saying (or asking).
It was inevitable, because protestants have been having to live with an untenable situation. It almost doesn't matter whether the mythic view is wrong or right. Well, it does but that isn't the central issue. What matters is the escape pressure that has been building. Its a "Let me out of here" type pressure. All the normal routes of teaching that the Catholics once used are blocked off for many protestants; so they feel nobody has satisfying explanations for anything. At the same time they are subjected to ridiculous sheep shearing, humiliation, and are just generally badly used. In the Bible are 66 nearly impenetrable books through which the protestant is supposed to obtain guidance simply by reading them. That's why there is so much energy behind this debate. People want not just answers but a way to escape. Its like there is an earthquake going on in the protestant community. Answers used to satisfy and misdirection could, too; but some people (such as myself) have felt like they've been bound to a corpse. I can totally understand why the question has come up.maxfreakout said:
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outhouse
Atheistically
I was just curious when you asked if you could change your user name there, if you succeeded.
There is still some hidden talent there, despite the mythers that have polluted many of the threads.
Would you mind addressing post 9?
AmbiguousGuy
Well-Known Member
I agree. It has been simply inconceivable in our culture to question the historicity of Jesus. But that is changing. I think the historical Jesus will go the way of the historical Adam with time. Lots of time, alas.
Upon what evidence do you base this claim?
outhouse
Atheistically
Without looking back, I can guess its your questioning regarding my sources, which you already know.
That is the beauty of the web. One can research without ever picking up a book.
I have read parts of online books by many of the people listed or I would not quote them. As well as blogs and articles on the topic I choose.
There have also been some great TV specials with said named scholars giving their opinion on certain topics that are relevant to todays debates.
Not having claimed to be educated on the matter, my education is not up for debate, and without judging you, I do find it a disspicable tactic used by some, to avoid the relevant topic at hand.
outhouse, have you read any of the books referenced?
outhouse
Atheistically
Not from cover to cover.
Thank you. I think your honesty deserves a good deal of respect.
AmbiguousGuy
Well-Known Member
Visual and auditory. Same evidence I have for the sun shining on me most days and the breeze rustling the leaves.
(Thanks for asking for my evidence. I love it when people do that.)
I am curious as to if and what historians can say about a Jesus of history vs the Jesus of legend and myth that we are all familiar with. Apparently it's not so cut and dry since anyone that ever wrote about Jesus never met the guy. I've tried discussing this topic on other forums but it's just too emotionally charged for some, I hope that's not the case here.
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AmbiguousGuy
Well-Known Member
I don't follow the scholars as they debate this issue but I'll be happy to unemotionally discuss it with you.
My best guess is that no man lived in first century Judea upon whom the gospel stories were based.
Desert Snake
Veteran Member
Why do you think that?
OK, I'm curious, do you think that they lived in a different century, or not at all?
This is most likely because you do not comprehend the intellectual poverty of your answer.
outhouse
Atheistically
There is quite the bit of gray area in recreating a historical Jesus/Yehoshua. This person is completely diferent then the biblical Jesus. Right off the bat if he was here and you yelled out Jesus, he probably wouldnt know who you were talking too and probably never heard that name called to him.
There are a few things most scholars will agree upon but it is a very short list.
E.P. Sanders gives a much better overview on PDF if you can find it.
But here is my version.
Birth and teenage years unknown, pre 30 years of age for that matter is a guess. A poor oppresed man who lived a life beow poverty, who may have worked in the rebuilding of Sepphoris, doing add jobs. Tekton from this time was not carpenter but hand worker, known to live a poor renting life. His parents displaced peasant who rented a very small fieldstone rock house in Nazareth, windowless, lit with a single oil lamp. Diet would have been olives and bread soaked in vinegar and or olive oil. Lentels. Some fish but very little meat. A few mixed vegetables which may have been grown in Nazareth, a few rock cut channels few a few gardens from a spring near the towns edge. These gardens had rock walls to keeop animals out and to make the soil on te hillside level, and to hold the seaping water in the soil. More thne likely this graden had a full time person watching over it.
He was baptized by John The Baptist in the river Jordan, where he may have been influenced by his teachings.
He would have had a very small amount of disciples, probably his inner circle of 3 or 4 which would have been poor oppressed fishermen, who at that time were overworked, underpaid and overtaxed. They were known to be like Yehoshua, living a life below that of a common peasant. They may have went into these small villages prior to his arrival and stated a wise man is coming and set the village up for the coming of a healer/teacher. All in hopes for a meal. He was said to have healed and taught for free.
He traveled around Galilee preaching only in small Jewish villages avoiding the large Hellenistic cities.
He traveled to the temple for passover where he caused some unknown trouble that had to do with money. The temple was very corrupt as well as the Jewish government. If one was going to try and make a statement, passover was the time to do it. It is said there were close to 400,000 people in attendance, and this was a very crowded passover. This trouble had him placed on a cross where he died.