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where is it written?

Tranquil Servant

Was M.I.A for a while
yes i did...


who says i am convinced....you?


of course it's about me...i created the thread silly

so were is it written?
is it written anywhere, maybe not.

funny how people resort to personal attacks when they can't seem to find any answers...the humble thing to say would be..."gee, i don't know..." instead of pretending to know or turning it around and creating a straw man argument...

excellent....:sarcastic

I'm content and satisfied with my life. My soul is filled with the bread of knowledge. Just because you can't get the answers your looking for (which obviously your not looking) doesn't mean I don't have the answers I need. My answers don't have to be your answers. I don't need physical evidence or proof to believe in the INVISIBLE God nor do I need to follow a self-centered ideological philosophy to feel satisfied. I trust in God; not in man, or woman, or you. The good Lord has never let me down. I don't need to prove to others I'm right to be content. I realize you started this thread with a rhetorical question to prove yourself and not with the intentions of actually trying to consider any response. with that being said, since no one can give you the answer your looking for, I don't wish to continue participating in this thread.I agree to disagree...Like I said before unto you your belief and unto me mine.
Enjoy the rest of your night; everyone :)
 
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sincerly

Well-Known Member
what are you talking about...nothing has been proven. i'm not refuting anything...i am asking for proof. there simply isn't any.

Since the assertion by you was false to begin with due to your misunderstanding/interpretation of the Scriptures, this was shown. There is no "proof" for such a false assertion.

your problem is associating negativism with skepticism towards unverifiable, ambiguous claims...i've accepted them for what they are...unverifiable and ambiguous...that isn't a negative stance no matter how much you would like them to be.

The "unverifiable, ambiguous claims" were of your making of what the truth of the Scriptures were indicating.(See above)

what ever makes you feel better....about your erroneous claims about me

my comments were in answer to your posts.

believe it or not... that has no bearing on the fact no one can show me where it is written...want to stay on topic or make me the topic?

:shrug:

From your postings, the topic should be "My belief is my belief concerning.... scripture" Or "Erhman and I have the same belief concerning....scripture".
Your :shrug: indicates you really fail to comprehend the messages of the scriptures.
 

kylixguru

Well-Known Member
Kylixguru, the longer this argument goes on, the more something becomes more clear. You do not understand the definition of the words "objective" or "empirical".

This seems to be very important to you, as you seem to have confused them for synonyms for "true" and "real".

They are not.

As an English teacher who is more than passingly well-versed in science, I'm getting increasingly frustrated as you further demonstrate your lack of understanding.

In its broadest sense, "empirical" means demonstrable, and can be proven to others.

In the most common applications, "objective" is something that any person can observe. It is something that other people will share the same sensory observations as you do.

By definition, anything emotion-based is NOT objective, but subjective. That does not make it less honest or real. A subjective judgment is merely subject to change depending on who observes it.

The sentence "This experience was empirical and objective to me." would get full marks OFF. It demonstrates that, by the expression itself, you missed the point of both adjectives.

If it can be proven or reproduced for others, a situation is empirical. If a situation can be observed by many people and the same observation will be made by everyone, it is objective.

The reason waitasec brought in the artwork wasn't to show off liberal arts skills. It was to prove a point.

A circle will be round. This is an objective statement. The picture of the lady sitting in a state of undress is arousing is a subjective statement. For some, it might be true. For others, it might be false. It is subjective.

You might have experienced something fantastic, or horrific, or affirming. These are all emotions, so regardless of WHAT the experience was, these feelings are subjective. They were, no doubt, real.

If you experienced, for example, a person's presence, that might have been objective. What it made you feel is subjective, no matter how real it was.

If what you experienced can be proven or reproduced, it may even be empirical.

But nothing can be "objective and empirical for you". If it seemed to be, and only just for you, that is proof-positive that it was neither empirical nor objective, no matter how sincere and real it was.

That isn't an experiential argument; it is an English lesson.
Harmonious, with all due respect, I fully understand what you are saying. I have said it time and time again that what I experienced was objective and empirical according to how you have laboriously attempted to teach me something I knew to start with. I know the meaning of the words I have used.

My point is this, unless and until someone actually undertakes to investigate using the scientific method where objectivity and empirical observations are made, your options are to either believe my claim or disbelieve my claim.

What I am hearing instead is that people who are in a position of total ignorance of the nature of my experience are assuming that I couldn't possibly have had an objective and empirical experience. They are going beyond belief or disbelief and judging from a position of ignorance.

The experience I had, if someone else had it the same as I did, they too would relate it as objective and empirical.

Watching the sun come up faithfully each day is empirical for me. I don't need anyone else around me to share that experience for it to be empirical. What makes that experience empirical is if someone was standing there with me they too would share the experience and also have the same understanding as I.

The art was nice, but it isn't relevant to my experience. This wasn't something that was a subjective experience that took place just in my head, or that happened in a dream or a vision.

Again, I will emphasize my point. You have every right to disbelieve what I have claimed because I haven't gone into any level of detail that would enable you to perform your own objective and empirical analysis. Absent that, it isn't within your scope to declare my experience was neither objective or empirical in nature.
 
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kylixguru

Well-Known Member
now that is irrelevant
It most definitely would be relevant.

that still isn't an objective experience of your experience.
My point is to judge something you need actual first-hand objective empirical observation or experience.

we can both agree if we were to meet each other and our significant others at an airport, we will objectively experience our existence and the existence of our significant others. how you may feel about your wife will not be objectively experienced as my feelings for my husband will not be objectively experienced for you...
which in no way diminishes the meaning of our feelings for our respective significant others
As I said before, going to the level of attraction or feelings blurs things some because that is more subjective in nature than watching a sunrise.

i can of course witness an affection between the both of you...but the meaning of that affection will not translate to me because i also exist and own my own experiences.
Understandable, but this is beside the point I am making.

how is that relevant?
It's relevant because you are making a claim about my experience not being objective or empirical in nature when you don't actually have any objective and empirical basis to declare such.

because your experience can not translate to my experience..
Experiences that are objective and empirical in nature can be observed or shared such that another person could have the same level of confidence as anyone. I am saying that my experience with identifying and encountering and experiencing the Son of Man was such.

You seem to have totally ignored my example of the North Korean citizen.

is this mis representing your position?
Yes, it is. You seem to be insisting my experience was some kind of a visionary thing instead of something anyone else could also experience on their own objectively and empirically.

kylixguru has an objective experience with Y, therefore waitasec is to experience the same thing...if waitasec does not experience what kylixguru experiences then waitasec is refusing to experience Y in the manner kylixguru has.
kylixguru claims to have an objective experience with Y.
Waitasec has not had an objective experience with Y to verify.
Kylixguru has not shared any substantive information with Waitasec about Y.
Kylixguru is fine if Waitasec chooses to disbelieve Y can happen objectively.
Kylixguru is not fine if Waitasec declares Y cannot happen objectively when ignorant of Y.

Y =
1. the pain of attempting to run through a brick wall
2. kylixguru's feelings for his wife

in order to make this statement representative of your position, which one is Y?
Y = something Waitasec is totally ignorant of the nature of.

The problem here is you are dealing not just with something you know that you don't know. I am dealing in the realm of something you don't know that you don't know.

Ponder it. That's your break down to finally get what I'm driving at.
 

sincerly

Well-Known Member
Matt. 12:39+ is where "It is Written" concerning Jesus' prophetic usage of Jonah and HIS being in the tomb/grave for a period of time until the resurrection.
 
If the mind is in the right mindset it's probably not ambiguous but rather obvious.

If a LORD in Japan, stops his entourage for a little man working on some flowers to finish his work, gets out and bows to him, it makes no sense to us.

The Ichibana expected nothing less from the LORD as He was an honorable man. To the english/western thinking man, that's an odd scene and fulla confusion. It's a given to respect someone who has mastered their art and is acknowledged by their peers as the best.

Same as facing a battle and wtaching the Athenians run and the Spartans stand and die. To the Athenians the Spartans were stupid, to the Spartans they didn't bother to think what they Athenians were doing.

The problem is people taking those words 2K years later and trying to dictate their meanings..... when they have no clue of the culture.




i don't see it.

why must these "written" prophesies be ambiguous?
it is like reading a fortune cookie.

isaiah doesn't mention the third day.
 

sincerly

Well-Known Member
If the mind is in the right mindset it's probably not ambiguous but rather obvious.

If a LORD in Japan, stops his entourage for a little man working on some flowers to finish his work, gets out and bows to him, it makes no sense to us.

The Ichibana expected nothing less from the LORD as He was an honorable man. To the english/western thinking man, that's an odd scene and fulla confusion. It's a given to respect someone who has mastered their art and is acknowledged by their peers as the best.

Same as facing a battle and wtaching the Athenians run and the Spartans stand and die. To the Athenians the Spartans were stupid, to the Spartans they didn't bother to think what they Athenians were doing.

The problem is people taking those words 2K years later and trying to dictate their meanings..... when they have no clue of the culture.

Hi XP, welcome to the forums!
The Problem is people can't see the Truth for their "culture". The "It is written" is an "Everlasting Gospel" and as Paul is recorded as saying in Acts 17:30, to the Athenians, "now commandeth all men every where to repent".

The message wasn't about "culture"--,but "Beliefs". A choice we all make.
 
Hi XP, welcome to the forums!
The Problem is people can't see the Truth for their "culture". The "It is written" is an "Everlasting Gospel" and as Paul is recorded as saying in Acts 17:30, to the Athenians, "now commandeth all men every where to repent".

The message wasn't about "culture"--,but "Beliefs". A choice we all make.

Ok, I can see that.

I'd modify it a bit, that their culture affects their mindset, so they read it and try to squeeze it into their mindset, and culture than seek out what it is saying.

So, when they see the word PERFECT in a verse they freak out for example, rather than seeing what it means.
 

sincerly

Well-Known Member
Ok, I can see that.

I'd modify it a bit, that their culture affects their mindset, so they read it and try to squeeze it into their mindset, and culture than seek out what it is saying.

So, when they see the word PERFECT in a verse they freak out for example, rather than seeing what it means.

True, As long as one holds a false understanding of the Scriptures, as did Eve with GOD'S Instructions, the "Big Picture" will be ignored.
 

otokage007

Well-Known Member
Please notice that Eve did Not misunderstand according to Genesis [3 vs 2,3 ] because Eve told the serpent if she ate she would die.

K thx.

But this makes me wonder. Can someone refuse to obey a perfect being? I know we have free will, but it seems as if Satan is somehow more persuasive than God, as Eve proved. How can this be?
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
K thx.
But this makes me wonder. Can someone refuse to obey a perfect being? I know we have free will, but it seems as if Satan is somehow more persuasive than God, as Eve proved. How can this be?

Each one, according to James [ 1 vs 13-15 ], is drawn out by one's own desires.

The tree of knowledge stood for the law. Nothing wrong with the law in itself.
A&E were banished not because of knowing evil, but for disobeying the law.

Eve was deceived [ 1st Tim. 2 v 14 ]. That is why chapter 5 of Romans places the blame squarely on the man Adam because Adam was Not deceived.
Adam was not persuaded by Satan. Adam deliberately chose to eat.
Eve said, so to speak, that the serpent was the 'Master of Deception'.- Gen. 3 v 13
Adam, in a sense, choose suicide rather than live without Eve.

Satan only influenced some of the angels Not the majority.
Since A&E were the only people on earth, it was easier I think for Satan to turn Eve away from divine law and follow him or worship him.

Eve apparently decided she wanted to determine for herself what was good or bad.
Eve took refuge in Satan's lie that she would Not die.
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Since A&E were the only people on earth, it was easier I think for Satan to turn Eve away from divine law and follow him or worship him.

Where is it written Adam and Eve were the only people on Earth? I think it has been proved that there were humans before 6000 years ago.
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
No, it hasn't been proven, but that's another topic.

I think I did not say has it been proved. I said where is it written that Adam and Eve were the actual first people. I can see the previous few posts are going away from the main topic where is it written that Christ would be dead for three days and rise. So I would say I am following the line of thought. So sorry I offered a little bit of what I think. Just please forget the second sentence. Thanks!
 

sincerly

Well-Known Member
I think I did not say has it been proved. I said where is it written that Adam and Eve were the actual first people. I can see the previous few posts are going away from the main topic where is it written that Christ would be dead for three days and rise. So I would say I am following the line of thought. So sorry I offered a little bit of what I think. Just please forget the second sentence. Thanks!

Hi savagewind, In Gen.1+2, GOD is described as Creating all things which were created and finishing the Creating process on the sixth day of reation. "Man"(and woman) were created on the sixth day. (Details of the making of woman/Eve were spelled out in chapter 2). Just to give you the answer. You are welcome.
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
Where is it written Adam and Eve were the only people on Earth? I think it has been proved that there were humans before 6000 years ago.

Dating things especially before the Flood can be an educated guess work.
Bible chronology places Adam and Eve in Eden back some 6,000+ years ago.
The word 'alone' appears at Gen. 2 v 18
The word 'both' appears at Gen. 2 v 25
Also, it was God's purpose that the first couple be the original parents of all humankind.
- Gen. 1 v 28

If there was a faithful person before Adam, then human imperfection would not have entered into our world. Because no one was faithful on earth is why we have an inherited sinful nature. That is why Adam is named as the one man at Romans 5 vs 12 - 19.
 

otokage007

Well-Known Member
Each one, according to James [ 1 vs 13-15 ], is drawn out by one's own desires.

The tree of knowledge stood for the law. Nothing wrong with the law in itself.
A&E were banished not because of knowing evil, but for disobeying the law.

Eve was deceived [ 1st Tim. 2 v 14 ]. That is why chapter 5 of Romans places the blame squarely on the man Adam because Adam was Not deceived.
Adam was not persuaded by Satan. Adam deliberately chose to eat.
Eve said, so to speak, that the serpent was the 'Master of Deception'.- Gen. 3 v 13
Adam, in a sense, choose suicide rather than live without Eve.

Satan only influenced some of the angels Not the majority.
Since A&E were the only people on earth, it was easier I think for Satan to turn Eve away from divine law and follow him or worship him.

Eve apparently decided she wanted to determine for herself what was good or bad.
Eve took refuge in Satan's lie that she would Not die.

So Eve was deceived. And God, instead of forgiving her, he punishes her. I will never understand the so called "Biblic morality" :confused:
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Dating things especially before the Flood can be an educated guess work.
Bible chronology places Adam and Eve in Eden back some 6,000+ years ago.
The word 'alone' appears at Gen. 2 v 18
The word 'both' appears at Gen. 2 v 25
Also, it was God's purpose that the first couple be the original parents of all humankind.
- Gen. 1 v 28

If there was a faithful person before Adam, then human imperfection would not have entered into our world. Because no one was faithful on earth is why we have an inherited sinful nature. That is why Adam is named as the one man at Romans 5 vs 12 - 19.

Yes, it does appear that way. But if it is not truth and you are attempting to be convincing others to come over to your perspective then you would be on the wrong team I think. I might be wrong.

Alone does not have the meaning of singular. It seems to have come from the word bad. Storm doesn't like me feeling sorry for myself and I don't blame her but I have to say that I live in a world where there exists a crowd of six billion people and I am many times feeling "alone". Weird huh? But according to some scholars it would seem impossible. Strong's Hebrew: 905. ???? (bad) -- separation, a part

It is possible that the one man who sinned against God has now infected the whole human race but I'm no statistician. So in that way Adam and Eve are our parents.

I went to a little college. It's just putting a little evolution perspective together with a little more genetic perspective.
 
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