Quote button didn't work. My replies start with a line -
I have applied it. Now I will apply it some more if it is of any comfort to you.
- Its not for my sack but yours.
Actually this is completely false idea someone has given you. I will present a Hadith relating an incident that contains a verse of the Quran to make CRYSTAL CLEAR that neither is it unauthentic or wrong.
At the death of the Holy Prophet (saw) it was Hazrat Umar (ra) who would not accept that his beloved Prophet (saw) has passed away. We can all understand why his love for him had held him blind of the possibility of death of Holy Prophet (saw). At this incident, it is well known the Hazrat Umar (ra) stricken with grief, said the following: `whoever should say the Prophet had died would lose his head!'
Abu Bakr heard this and at once made for the place where the Holy Prophet's dead body lay. He lifted the mantle from over him and knew at once that he had died. The pain of separation from his beloved friend and leader made his eyes wet. He bent low and kissed the Prophet's forehead and said:
"By God, you will not suffer more than one death. The loss mankind have suffered by your death is greater than the loss they have suffered by the death of any other prophet. You need no praises, and mourning cannot reduce the pangs of separation.
If we could but avert your end, we would have done so, with our lives."
Abu Bakr said this, and covered the Prophet's face; then went to the spot where Omar was speaking to the Companions. Omar, of course, was telling them that the Prophet had not died; but had
only disappeared temporarily. Abu Bakr asked Omar to stop for a time and let him speak to the assembly. Omar did not stop but went on. Abu Bakr turned to some of the Companions and started telling them, the Holy Prophet had really died. Other Companions turned to Abu Bakr and began to listen to him. Omar also was compelled to listen. Abu Bakr recited from the Holy Quran:
"The Holy Prophet was but a prophet. There had been prophets before him and they had all died. If he also should die or be put to death, would they turn back upon him?" (Al-Imran: 145)
"Thou (O Muhammad) are surely going to die and they surely are going to die." (Al-Zumar: 31)
"O ye men,
whoever amongst you worshipped Muhammad, let him know that Muhammad is dead, and whoever amongst you worshipped Allah, let him know that Allah is Living, there is no death for Him." (Bukhari, Volume 2, Chapter Manaqibe Abu Bakr)
When Abu Bakr recited the verses of the Holy Quran and pointed to their meaning, the Companions realised what had happened. The Prophet had died. They began to cry. Omar is reported to have said that when Abu Bakr recited the verses out of the Holy Quran, and when their meaning suddenly dawned upon him, it seemed as though the verses had been revealed on that day, at that moment. His legs could no longer support him. He staggered and fell down in a paroxysm of grief.
This account of what passed between the Companions at the Holy Prophet's death proves two important things:
1. EVERYONE agreed that the verse mean that all Prophets before the Holy Prophet (saw) had passed away. NOBODY objected saying Jesus (as) is alive. Hazrat Umar (ra) was stricken with grief and did not want to accept the death of Holy Prophet (saw) but he was compelled by the verse. He did not cite the analogy of Jesus (as) in Heaven for 600 years but instead cited the analogy of Moses (as) disappearance for 40 days. HE KNEW NOBODY CAN GO TO HEAVEN and HE KNEW JESUS (AS) WAS DEAD. Hazrat Umar (ra) did not say the Holy Prophet (saw) went up to Heaven and will be back, rather that he was gone somewhere on earth for 40 days as a spiritual journey like Moses (as).
- There is no proof or indication in the hadiths you quoted that he believes Jesus(p) was killed since the Quran tells us he wasn't killed.
- The verse says that Allah(swt) took Esha(p) in heaven ''Nay, Allah raised him up unto Himself; and Allah is Exalted in Power, Wise;-'' so clearly they can go to heaven. Heck even Mohammed(saws) went to heaven according to the story of Miraj/Isra.
- Your reasoning is flawed why should the companions talk about Esha(p) when prophet Mohammed(saws) died it would make no sense.
- Your twisting some things first of all i never said that he went Alive to heaven i said he wasn't killed. He could have died afterwards by a natural cause or with the ''command'' of Allah(swt).
2. Not a single companion present objected. NOT A SINGLE. They all agreed with Hazrat Abu Bakar and NOBODY thought the verse presented to give an exception to Jesus (as) as surely if they did then Hazrat Umar (ra) would not be hesitant to present that example. THEY ALL AGREED. "There had been prophets before him and they had all died." they understood this verse to mean the death of every Prophet (as) before the Holy Prophet (saw).
- :sleep: could you show me where i have told you he went alive with a physical body to heaven? All i have said was that he wasn't killed by the prosecutors.
That was a teaching in the Torah. Does not the Quran instruct us to also read the past Scriptures. Do you not present verses from there to show the truth of the Holy Prophet (saw). Does not the Quran respond to this claim on the Jew's who claimed to have killed / crucified Jesus (as).
- First of all the Quran tells us that the scriptures have been altered/corrupted and forgotten.
-Secondly the Original torah could never been so big as its now and how could Moses(p) write after hes death about himself?
-Thirdly the Torah according to the Quran was a direct revelation to Moses(p) not prophets that came after him while they are included.
-Forth point the curse story is not based on the Quran and Allah(swt) doesn't curse messengers/prophets it would mean that he made a false judgement about the person.
-Fifth point i never use the Bible (what is not the injeel) or the Torah (what is not the Tahwret) as historical books and facts but rather for discussions.
Dear brother, that is why I warned you of including commentary into verses, you have seemed to confuse yourself. I am sure all those people listed in the newspaper having passed away simply just passed by the city. Seems physical to me...
- You was the one who put the commentary on the verse
Not me.
This is not a response rather a cop out.
- Was never meant to be a response but something to think about.
This is faulty logic. I am not doubting the power of Allah (swt). I don't like these kind of responses as they parallel what Christians say "Do you not believe God has power to beget a son?". If you have ever answered that question before then you should have you answer within. In the case you have not, I will give the shortest answer that should still be sufficient: capability does not imply that something occured. If we were in court nobody would say that he killed the man because he has a kitchen knife at home. "Don't you believe he can do it?" You need to present motives, not capability. So present a single reasonable motive of why Jesus (as) is in heaven while our beloved Holy Prophet (saw) lies in his grave.
- Since the idea is that Jesus(p) will ascend from heaven to earth to fight the Dajall it will be logical that he is in heaven. You forget the teaching that you will have a part of heaven in the grave.
Lets get back on topic. I will say the same thing that Hazrat Abu Bakr (ra) said on the topic of Holy Prophet (saw) death for the death of Jesus (as).
"O ye men, whoever amongst you worshipped Jesus, let him know that Jesus is dead, and whoever amongst you worshipped Allah, let him know that Allah is Living, there is no death for Him."
- Again where did i say that he is alive in a physical body? I would say hes body is gone yes.
