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Homosexuality and the Bible: Part 2

A

angellous_evangellous

Guest
If you look at it in the way of the OP's arguments, homosexuality IS NOT being condemned so long as anal sex is avoided. If OP's quotes are to be literally interpreted, a man having anal sex with a woman is just as bad. I would be curious to know the ratio of homosexuals who participate in anal to the number who don't. I think the greater percentage does it.

But condemning the act but not the people doesn't mmake the verse's literal meaning. From that which is interpreted. If you say "I don't condemn gays, I just condemn their actions", you're still condemning the greater majority of the group.

No, it's not. At least in Paul, he clearly denotes when he's talking about men or women. Anal sex between men is forbidden, not anal sex with a woman.

Hint: Paul uses the word "man" and "effeminate" in the masculine to describe male homosexuality, just like Plato and Plutarch.
 

krsnaraja

Active Member
Follow what I teach but do not follow what I do in private. We critcize & criticize homosexuals & lesbians because of what they do in private yet we don`t criticize ourselves when we are so horny inside the confines of our bedroom or bathroom. We even watch porno films just to get that erection & then banging our wives & girlfriends with acrobatic sexual positions that even contortionists pale in comparison with what we do in private. We masturbate using the screen of our minds imagining whom we gonna make love with this time.:facepalm:
 
A

angellous_evangellous

Guest
Follow what I teach but do not follow what I do in private. We critcize & criticize homosexuals & lesbians because of what they do in private yet we don`t criticize ourselves when we are so horny inside the confines of our bedroom or bathroom. We even watch porno films just to get that erection & then banging our wives & girlfriends with acrobatic sexual positions that even contortionists pale in comparison with what we do in private. We masturbate using the screen of our minds imagining whom we gonna make love with this time.:facepalm:

Speak fer yerself.
 

-Peacemaker-

.45 Cal
I agree.
Junglej25 has been consistently and thoroughly providing in person verification of your point.

Sad thing is that he is completely unable to understand that he is doing nothing more than furthering your point.

Believe it or not I have alot compassion for anyone struggling with homosexuality. I've struggled with all kinds of sins and even now battle with a heart that often wants to do the wrong thing. There's nothing loving about condoning sin in spite of whatever is or isn't politically correct.
 

fallingblood

Agnostic Theist
Believe it or not I have alot compassion for anyone struggling with homosexuality. I've struggled with all kinds of sins and even now battle with a heart that often wants to do the wrong thing. There's nothing loving about condoning sin in spite of whatever is or isn't politically correct.
Thank you for making my point. Now Mr. Holier than thou, you probably should probably get back to pointing out other sins and then condemning them.
 

-Peacemaker-

.45 Cal
Thank you for making my point. Now Mr. Holier than thou, you probably should probably get back to pointing out other sins and then condemning them.

Except I don't condone my own sins. I don't make excuses for why it's right for me to sin. I tell THE TRUTH about what is evil no matter how much it may inconvenience what my or anyone else's sinful nature wants to do. I can't always live out the message of Jesus no matter how hard I try, we're all sinners and we'll be that way until we die. The only thing I can completely control is what I discern to be sin.
 
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A

angellous_evangellous

Guest
Except I don't condone my own sins. I don't make excuses for why it's right for me to sin. I tell THE TRUTH about what is evil no matter how much it may inconvenience what my or anyone else's sinful nature wants to do. I can't always live out the message of Jesus no matter how hard I try, we're all sinners and we'll be that way until we die. The only thing I can completely control is what I discern to be sin.

Really? You can really do that?

If you have that kind of power, you need to sell everything you own and travel the earth teaching others how to do that.

You could choose 12 disciples and unfortunately they will desert you after three years you'll be crucified. But you'll raise yourself from the dead and the disciples will all come back...

Good thing is that you'll be deified and then people will basically worship your mom.

- Angellous the Baptist
 

fallingblood

Agnostic Theist
Except I don't condone my own sins. I don't make excuses for why it's right for me to sin. I tell THE TRUTH about what is evil no matter how much it may inconvenience what my or anyone else's sinful nature wants to do. I can't always live out the message of Jesus no matter how hard I try, we're all sinners and we'll be that way until we die. The only thing I can completely control is what I discern to be sin.
Well then instead of condemning others, you should start looking at yourself and stop judging others. I highly doubt you follow all of the laws in the OT, so picking and choosing which ones are inherently evil is ridiculous.
 

-Peacemaker-

.45 Cal
Really? You can really do that?

If you have that kind of power, you need to sell everything you own and travel the earth teaching others how to do that.

You could choose 12 disciples and unfortunately they will desert you after three years you'll be crucified. But you'll raise yourself from the dead and the disciples will all come back...

Good thing is that you'll be deified and then people will basically worship your mom.

- Angellous the Baptist

Or I could just tell people to study God's Word so that they'll can learn how to discern between good and evil.

Hebrews 4 12For the word of God is living and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart. 13Nothing in all creation is hidden from God’s sight. Everything is uncovered and laid bare before the eyes of him to whom we must give account.

Romans 12:2 Do not conform any longer to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God's will is--his good, pleasing and perfect will.
 
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-Peacemaker-

.45 Cal
Well then instead of condemning others, you should start looking at yourself and stop judging others. I highly doubt you follow all of the laws in the OT, so picking and choosing which ones are inherently evil is ridiculous.

My guess is that your definition of judging is a long way off from the Biblical definition. The popular "wisdom" of our day says making moral judgments about behavior is arrogant and "judgmental". So now it's considered inappropriate and evil to actually correct someone who's engaged in a homosexual lifestyle, premarital sex, drunkness, and whatever else you can think of. The BIBLICAL definition of condemning is pronouncing sentence for people's sins. Do you see me advocating penalties for people's sins? NO. Biblical judging can also be closing the book on someone. For instance, it could be withholding preaching the Gospel to someone because you assume they'll reject it.The last thing that constitiutes Biblical judging is telling people what's evil and what isn't. It's important to realize I draw a sharp distinction between someone who has homosexual impulses and one who acts on them. There are plenty of people who would call themselves homosexuals who don't actually engage in the lifestyle and IMO there's nothing evil about that. Just like a heterosexual Christian constantly has to refrain from acting out lustful impulses to have unmarried sex.
 
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angellous_evangellous

Guest
Or I could just tell people to study God's Word so that they'll can learn how to discern between good and evil.

... without thought or compassion.

Really you care only for yourself, as you so adequately stated.

That's not good when you try to use the Bible to harm people.
 
A

angellous_evangellous

Guest
My guess is that your definition of judging is a long way off from the Biblical definition. The popular "wisdom" of our day says making moral judgments about behavior is arrogant and "judgmental". So now it's considered inappropriate and evil to actually correct someone who's engaged in a homosexual lifestyle, premarital sex, drunkness, and whatever else you can think of. The BIBLICAL definition of condemning is pronouncing sentence for people's sins. Do you see me advocating penalties for people's sins? NO. Biblical judging can also be closing the book on someone. For instance, it could be withholding preaching the Gospel to someone because you assume they'll reject it.The last thing that constitiutes Biblical judging is telling people what's evil and what isn't.

So tell me, have you removed the log from your eye?

Jesus said that only after you've removed your log, you can go and correct someone else.

The point is you should always be working on yourself and not others, because as you said, you will never be perfect.

That's biblical judgement.
 

-Peacemaker-

.45 Cal
So tell me, have you removed the log from your eye?

Jesus said that only after you've removed your log, you can go and correct someone else.

The point is you should always be working on yourself and not others, because as you said, you will never be perfect.

That's biblical judgement.

What is the log you speak of? Where have I been unbiblical? Who have I hurt?
 
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angellous_evangellous

Guest
What is the log you speak of? Where have I been unbiblical? Who have I hurt?

Ah, there's a reason for your misunderstanding about biblical judgment.

A refresher:

"You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye" (Matthew 7.1-5 ESV)
 

-Peacemaker-

.45 Cal
Ah, there's a reason for your misunderstanding about biblical judgment.

A refresher:

"You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye" (Matthew 7.1-5 ESV)

Let's look at the scriptural foundation for correcting others:

John 8 9 At this, those who heard began to go away one at a time, the older ones first, until only Jesus was left, with the woman still standing there. 10 Jesus straightened up and asked her, “Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?”
11 “No one, sir,” she said. “Then neither do I condemn you,” Jesus declared. “Go now and leave your life of sin.”

In the case of this nonbeliever, Jesus doesn't pronounce sentance on her and so models for us what it means to not commit the Biblical sin of judging their neighbor. He does make a judgement about her character and tells her to straighten up.

Matthew 4:17 "From that time on Jesus began to preach, "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is near.""

He had to tell people that they were sinners if he was going to tell them they were supposed to repent of something. What would you say to Jesus if he told you that you needed to clean up your act?" Would you tell him to stop judging you?


Matthew 23: 16&#8220;Woe to you, blind guides! You say, &#8216;If anyone swears by the temple, it means nothing; but if anyone swears by the gold of the temple, he is bound by his oath.&#8217;</SPAN> 17You blind fools! Which is greater: the gold, or the temple that makes the gold sacred?</SPAN> 18You also say, &#8216;If anyone swears by the altar, it means nothing; but if anyone swears by the gift on it, he is bound by his oath.&#8217;</SPAN> 19You blind men! Which is greater: the gift, or the altar that makes the gift sacred?</SPAN> 20Therefore, he who swears by the altar swears by it and by everything on it.</SPAN> 21And he who swears by the temple swears by it and by the one who dwells in it.</SPAN> 22And he who swears by heaven swears by God&#8217;s throne and by the one who sits on it.</SPAN>

Here's Jesus chastising people who are righteous by their own standards as opposed to God's and leading others to adhere to what he taught were false methods of attaining righteousness.

The Great Commission

Matthew ch. 28
16 Then the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain where Jesus had told them to go. 17 When they saw him, they worshiped him; but some doubted. 18 Then Jesus came to them and said, &#8220;All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.&#8221;

He says to go and tell people all over the world that they are sinners and need to repent when he talks about making disciples of all nations. He tells them to teach the entire world about areas of their lives that need correction. In other words Jesus is commanding his disciples to model their ministries after his. Is Jesus actually commanding his disciples to be judgemental or could it be that your definition of what constitutes judgementalism is not the Biblical definition? My point is that if you have a problem with Christians saying that things what some people believe in or do are evil then you have a problem with what Christ has commanded his followers to do. Again, nobody is proposing that we hand down a sentance for your sins as that IS judging. Face it, only the enemy of our souls creates false doctrines in which it's sinful to correct others.
 
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Duck

Well-Known Member
My guess is that your definition of judging is a long way off from the Biblical definition. The popular "wisdom" of our day says making moral judgments about behavior is arrogant and "judgmental". So now it's considered inappropriate and evil to actually correct someone who's engaged in a homosexual lifestyle, premarital sex, drunkness, and whatever else you can think of. The BIBLICAL definition of condemning is pronouncing sentence for people's sins. Do you see me advocating penalties for people's sins? NO. Biblical judging can also be closing the book on someone. For instance, it could be withholding preaching the Gospel to someone because you assume they'll reject it.The last thing that constitiutes Biblical judging is telling people what's evil and what isn't. It's important to realize I draw a sharp distinction between someone who has homosexual impulses and one who acts on them. There are plenty of people who would call themselves homosexuals who don't actually engage in the lifestyle and IMO there's nothing evil about that. Just like a heterosexual Christian constantly has to refrain from acting out lustful impulses to have unmarried sex.

Well you do keep bringing up the Levitical verses condemning me and mine to death, so how does that fit into the bold statement above? Seems to me that you are advocating the penalties for someone else's "sin".

And it is nice to know that I am evil in your eyes, at least I know where I stand.
 
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Photonic

Ad astra!
Well you do keep bringing up the Levitical verses condemning me and mine to death, so how does that fit into the bold statement above? Seems to me that you are advocating the penalties for someone else's "sin".

And it is nice to know that I am evil in your eyes, at least I know where I stand.

:popcorn:
 

-Peacemaker-

.45 Cal
That log must be a doozey.

2 Timothy 4: 2 Preach the word; be prepared in season and out of season; correct, rebuke and encourage—with great patience and careful instruction.

I have yet to read anything in Scripture that commands Christians to:
1. Ignore the fallacies that exist in this world
2. Make sure that culture values supercede Biblical values
3. Just hope and pray people read their Bible, you're not allowed to open your mouth to actually inform people of the error of their ways.
 
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