Where did Jesus asked to be worshpped?

[Me Myself]

I know he said that nobody could aspire forgiveness if it was not for him (and I have my own ways of interpreting that)

But when did Jesus said he should be worshipped?

When did Jesus said that only if you say his name and invoke his name he would forgive you?

Because I know those who were booing him while he carried the cross were certanly not "worshipping" him when they shouted and laughed at him, and yet he said to God "Forgive them, because they donñt know what they are doing"

To me this shows Jesus is willing to forgive without any need to be worshipped, so even when he does say that no one can see the father if not for him... he never said he was only going to let in those who worshipped him.

That appears to be only the elaboration of Paul, or am I missing any verse?

 

[Me Myself]

Nowhere then? Hum...

 

[On_a_Quest]

I find Paul to be a very interesting character. From what I understand, though he never met Jesus, he took what he knew about Jesus' teachings and created his own ideas. A lot of other people did the same thing in the early centuries. It just so happens that a lot of Paul's ideas stuck.

I don't think that Jesus wanted to be worshipped and I don't think he was the son of God. I think he was a wise and spiritual young man who preached his ideas. He was a radical Jew.

I do believe that Jesus is an admirable example of a human being and he should be highly respected, though maybe worship is a bit much for any human. Is worshipping Jesus any different than when Romans worshipped emperors who proclaimed themselves gods?

For a long time, I took it forgranted that Jesus = God = Holy Spirit. Now I'm not so sure.

I think the idea of worshipping Jesus and asking him for forgiveness stems from the interpretation that God forgives sins, Jesus is God, therefore Jesus forgives sins.

 

[-Peacemaker-]

John 10:31-33 [31] Again the Jews picked up stones to stone him, [32] but Jesus said to them, "I have shown you many great miracles from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?" [33] "We are not stoning you for any of these," replied the Jews, "but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God."

JC didn't phrase his claim to divinity in a way that you may like but he phrased it in a way he knew exactly how HIS AUDIENCE would understand it.

John 10
22 Then came the Festival of Dedication[b] at Jerusalem. It was winter, 23 and Jesus was in the temple courts walking in Solomon’s Colonnade. 24 The Jews who were there gathered around him, saying, “How long will you keep us in suspense? If you are the Messiah, tell us plainly.”

25 Jesus answered, “I did tell you, but you do not believe. The works I do in my Father’s name testify about me, 26 but you do not believe because you are not my sheep. 27 My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. 28 I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all[c]; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand. 30 I and the Father are one.”
31 Again his Jewish opponents picked up stones to stone him, 32 but Jesus said to them, “I have shown you many good works from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?” 33 “We are not stoning you for any good work,” they replied, “but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God.”

 

[Me Myself]

John 10:31-33 [31] Again the Jews picked up stones to stone him, [32] but Jesus said to them, "I have shown you many great miracles from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?" [33] "We are not stoning you for any of these," replied the Jews, "but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God."

JC didn't phrase his claim to divinity in a way that you may like but he phrased it in a way he knew exactly how HIS AUDIENCE would understand it.

You know what comes next?

He says that God has said "you are gods" to humans. And he says that if it is in the scriptures (he is citing jewish scriptures) then how can the scriptures be wrong? In here he basically says he is as much a god as any one of us.

Then he claims to his miracles, but he also says in other verses that there will be people that will make bigger miracles than him.

AND the question is where does he asks to be worshipped. He always says all that he does is because of the Father. When he cures people he says "YOUR faith has healed you" (lets remember that everyone is god according to jweish scriptures, the same the Jesus quoted when he argued to the ones bothering for saying he is god)



Thanks a lot for replying!

 

[-Peacemaker-]

You know what comes next?

He says that God has said "you are gods" to humans. And he says that if it is in the scriptures (he is citing jewish scriptures) then how can the scriptures be wrong? In here he basically says he is as much a god as any one of us.

Then he claims to his miracles, but he also says in other verses that there will be people that will make bigger miracles than him.

AND the question is where does he asks to be worshipped. He always says all that he does is because of the Father. When he cures people he says "YOUR faith has healed you" (lets remember that everyone is god according to jweish scriptures, the same the Jesus quoted when he argued to the ones bothering for saying he is god)



Thanks a lot for replying!

The capitalized "G" in verse 33 says alot

 

[Me Myself]

The capitalized "G" in verse 33 says alot

I can imagine Jesus saying "I am god, with a CAPITAL G!!!" (not really btw. you doknow bible wasn´t originally written in english right? xD)

edit: actually, the capital G even if said to be cappital was said by the jews persecuting him. Jesus reply didn´t put him any higher than the rest of us. He agreed to be a "god" with no capital. I am just talking about the verse there.

Still no quotation of him wanting worship or never forgiving sins if not receiving it. He forgave those who stoned him because he had a really big heart (At least that´s what I read)

 

[-Peacemaker-]

How about verses where JC accepts worship?

Matt 14:33 Then those who were in the boat worshiped him Jesus, saying, “Truly you are the Son of God.”

John 9:38 Then the man said, ‘Lord Jesus, I believe,’ and he worshiped him.”

 

[Me Myself]

How about verses where JC accepts worship?

Matt 14:33 Then those who were in the boat worshiped him Jesus, saying, “Truly you are the Son of God.”

John 9:38 Then the man said, ‘Lord Jesus, I believe,’ and he worshiped him.”

Did he even encourage them? Just accepting them doesn´t mean is the only way those guys can be saved. He just accepted worship, you said so yourself, there are also a lot of verses where he remembers everyone that is not his glory but that of his Father.

So, where on the bible has Jesus either: ASKED to be worshipped or SAID he will ONLY save those who worship HIM

I know he says that only "through me you can see the Father" but that doesn´t mean that you have to worship him to see the father it only means that you need his approval. If he clearly forgave the sins of all who crucified him without them worshipping him, there is nowhere on HIS words to extract that without you PRASING HIM you cannot go to heaven.

 

[pwfaith]

I know he said that nobody could aspire forgiveness if it was not for him (and I have my own ways of interpreting that)

But when did Jesus said he should be worshiped?

When did Jesus said that only if you say his name and invoke his name he would forgive you?

Because I know those who were booing him while he carried the cross were certanly not "worshipping" him when they shouted and laughed at him, and yet he said to God "Forgive them, because they donñt know what they are doing"

To me this shows Jesus is willing to forgive without any need to be worshipped, so even when he does say that no one can see the father if not for him... he never said he was only going to let in those who worshipped him.

That appears to be only the elaboration of Paul, or am I missing any verse?

This is an interesting question

what if we reverse it, sorta, and ask "when did Jesus ask not to be worshiped?

We know people in the Bible did worship him, what his response to them when they did?

Even God commanded the angels to worship Jesus (Hebrews 1:6)

I don't think people worship Jesus in order to be saved, but rather b/c he is deserving of it, does that make sense?

They asked, "Where is the child who has been born to be king of the Jews? When we were in the east, we saw his star. Now we have come to worship him." (Matthew 2:2)

The Wise Men went to the house. There they saw the child with his mother Mary. They bowed down and worshiped him. Then they opened their treasures. They gave him gold, incense and myrrh. (Matthew 2:11)

And a leper came to Him and bowed [ or worshiped] down before Him, and said, “Lord, if You are willing, You can make me clean.” (Matthew 8:2)

While He was saying these things to them, a synagogue official came and bowed [or worshiped] down before Him, and said, “My daughter has just died; but come and lay Your hand on her, and she will live.” (Matthew 9:18)

And those who were in the boat worshiped Him, saying, “You are certainly God’s Son!” (Matthew 14:34)

But she came and began to bow [or worship] down before Him, saying, “Lord, help me!” (Matthew 15:25)

Then the mother of the sons of Zebedee came to Jesus with her sons, bowing down and making a request of Him. (Matthew 20:20)

And behold, Jesus met them and greeted them. And they came up and took hold of His feet and worshiped Him. (Matthew 28:9)

When they saw Him, they worshiped Him; but some were doubtful. (Matthew 28:17)

And they, after worshiping Him, returned to Jerusalem with great joy, (Luke 24:52)

And he said, “Lord, I believe.” And he worshiped Him. (John 9:38)

And when He again brings the firstborn into the world, He says, “AND LET ALL THE ANGELS OF GOD WORSHIP HIM.” (Hebrews 1:6)

​

Why did these people worship him? What was Jesus response back to them when they did? Did he ask them to worship him or was it something they felt compelled to do out of great honor, respect and awe for him?

Not sure if that answers your question or not but it's what came to mind

 

[-Peacemaker-]

John 8: 58-59

"‘I tell you the truth,’ Jesus answered, ‘before Abraham was born, I am!’ At this, they picked up stones to stone him, but Jesus hid himself, slipping away from the temple grounds.”


"I am" is the name of God used in Exodus 3:14

 

[Me Myself]

John 8: 58-59

"‘I tell you the truth,’ Jesus answered, ‘before Abraham was born, I am!’ At this, they picked up stones to stone him, but Jesus hid himself, slipping away from the temple grounds.”


"I am" is the name of God used in Exodus 3:14

I am not debating that he called himself god. I am telling you he didn´t ask for worship. As I already told you, he said everyone is god. he said that was in the scriptures.

 

[-Peacemaker-]

Isn't worship implied when one makes a claim to divinity? YOu already have him accepting worship. What more do you need? You know calling people gods and calling himself GOD are two very different things don't you?

 

[Me Myself]

This is an interesting question

what if we reverse it, sorta, and ask "when did Jesus ask not to be worshiped?

We know people in the Bible did worship him, what his response to them when they did?

Even God commanded the angels to worship Jesus (Hebrews 1:6)

I don't think people worship Jesus in order to be saved, but rather b/c he is deserving of it, does that make sense?

They asked, "Where is the child who has been born to be king of the Jews? When we were in the east, we saw his star. Now we have come to worship him." (Matthew 2:2)

The Wise Men went to the house. There they saw the child with his mother Mary. They bowed down and worshiped him. Then they opened their treasures. They gave him gold, incense and myrrh. (Matthew 2:11)

And a leper came to Him and bowed [ or worshiped] down before Him, and said, “Lord, if You are willing, You can make me clean.” (Matthew 8:2)

While He was saying these things to them, a synagogue official came and bowed [or worshiped] down before Him, and said, “My daughter has just died; but come and lay Your hand on her, and she will live.” (Matthew 9:18)

And those who were in the boat worshiped Him, saying, “You are certainly God’s Son!” (Matthew 14:34)

But she came and began to bow [or worship] down before Him, saying, “Lord, help me!” (Matthew 15:25)

Then the mother of the sons of Zebedee came to Jesus with her sons, bowing down and making a request of Him. (Matthew 20:20)

And behold, Jesus met them and greeted them. And they came up and took hold of His feet and worshiped Him. (Matthew 28:9)

When they saw Him, they worshiped Him; but some were doubtful. (Matthew 28:17)

And they, after worshiping Him, returned to Jerusalem with great joy, (Luke 24:52)

And he said, “Lord, I believe.” And he worshiped Him. (John 9:38)

And when He again brings the firstborn into the world, He says, “AND LET ALL THE ANGELS OF GOD WORSHIP HIM.” (Hebrews 1:6)

​

Why did these people worship him? What was Jesus response back to them when they did? Did he ask them to worship him or was it something they felt compelled to do out of great honor, respect and awe for him?

Not sure if that answers your question or not but it's what came to mind

Wow! thanks for the answer! xD it´s good to see you here, generally like yuor approach on things and they way you discuss

Well, for starters, I must say that in this I am talking about the testaments, not the letters, while I know that you have faith in both, the question goes towards Jesus explicitly saying he wants to be worshipped.

I like what you say about people doing it because they feel he deserves it, I do think if he existed, he was trully a man to learn a lot of. In any case, the question goes towards the point that Jesus never said that if you "dont worshp him you are going to hell".

The closest thing he came to say that would be that only through him one could see he Father, but this still doesn´t mean that he will close you the door if you never talked to him. I think the guy in the testaments would probably even point you at the door if you are dramatically going towards the pits of hell at the other side xD(not trying to say that he would "force " it upon us, but I digress xD)

What I mean is, that if he had so great power to forgive everyone that he wants, and he clearly not felt short in any moment on the testaments to remember us that he had a great heart to forgive everyone (like people booing him in the cross) then I just don´t see why would he not open the doors to the heavens to those who need it, even if they didn´t beleive in his historic existence or never heard his name, as long as they tried their best to be good to their brothers.

so my argument goes toards that point: the fact that Jesus never asked to be worshipped, so it is not a need for salvation. (though I would doubt anyone that asks with open heart for virtue and grace in his name would be turned down, I am just saying it´s not a requirement)

So what are your thoughts on that? And to that, no verses where he does asks to be worshipped?

 

[Me Myself]

Isn't worship implied when one makes a claim to divinity?

Depends. According to jewish scriptures with which Jesus said were correct we are gods. So the logical conclusions would be:

a)We should "worship" ourselves
b) divinity and worshp are not necesarily tied down
c) Jesus was wrong

You already have him accepting worship. What more do you need? You know calling people gods and calling himself GOD are two very different things don't you?

Yes and no. They could be but they hardly need to be. The closer Jesus came to call himself God is to say "I am" but everyone is an "I am" because we all say "I am" all the time. It is not that the specific name of God was the sound "I am" but the meaning "I am", by this I mean that in my language God would be "Yo soy" (in spanish) but what equals "I am" to "Yo soy" is that it means that the speaker is God. Which would be another way of saying that everyone is God, so Jesus was not in any way exclusive in the term God when he called himself God.

 

[Shermana]

John 10:31-33 [31] Again the Jews picked up stones to stone him, [32] but Jesus said to them, "I have shown you many great miracles from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?" [33] "We are not stoning you for any of these," replied the Jews, "but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God."

JC didn't phrase his claim to divinity in a way that you may like but he phrased it in a way he knew exactly how HIS AUDIENCE would understand it.

John 10
22 Then came the Festival of Dedication[b] at Jerusalem. It was winter, 23 and Jesus was in the temple courts walking in Solomon’s Colonnade. 24 The Jews who were there gathered around him, saying, “How long will you keep us in suspense? If you are the Messiah, tell us plainly.”

25 Jesus answered, “I did tell you, but you do not believe. The works I do in my Father’s name testify about me, 26 but you do not believe because you are not my sheep. 27 My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. 28 I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all[c]; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand. 30 I and the Father are one.”
31 Again his Jewish opponents picked up stones to stone him, 32 but Jesus said to them, “I have shown you many good works from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?” 33 “We are not stoning you for any good work,” they replied, “but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God.”

Like 1:1c, 10:33 should read as "a god" as it is an anarthrous Theon, like in Acts 12:22. This explains 10:34-35. For calling himself the "Son of G-d" which was traditionally associated with "Angels" who were called "gods" as in Psalm 136:2 and 82:1.

 

[Blackheart]

I am not debating that he called himself god. I am telling you he didn´t ask for worship. As I already told you, he said everyone is god. he said that was in the scriptures.

He never accepted worship as a God. He accepted peoples praise and high gratitude for what they had witnessed him doing. What do you want him to do?? tell them that they cant offer praise and acknowledgement of his deeds. Its very different from someone making you into a God.

Jesus constantly told people that the father was the one that was allowing him to do what he did. Why do people try so hard to make Jesus into God. Im sure if he intended us to see him that way he would of said so just as much as he told us that he was SENT BY GOD.

 

[Acim]

Isn't worship implied when one makes a claim to divinity?

I would say absolutely not.

YOu already have him accepting worship. What more do you need? You know calling people gods and calling himself GOD are two very different things don't you?

Not different. He never says he is Father and does pretty decent job given limitations we have of what was actually said to make it clear that there is distinction.

IMO, it is blasphemy to worship Jesus, and thus far none in this thread can find evidence that he has asked for that. If I bow down and worship you, and you in story form (3rd party account) are not seen dismissing this, then one could conclude you accept it. It is clear, even today, that we have people who mistakenly worship Jesus. This is idolatry, plain and simple. He is an elder brother worthy of devotion (as are all brothers and sisters) and worthy of respect for his devotion to teaching and practicing love at all costs.

One who is truly Christian could (I would say often does) repeat the words of Jesus and realize they are applicable to own selves, for within you is Christ. I tell you the truth, before Abraham was born, I am! This is not statement about Jesus and is clearly statement about the Father. Jesus is letting the elders of the day know where his allegiance is.

I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. Again is message about where Christ is, in Me. In You, in Us. He is clearly telling the Apostles at this point that to know the way to the Father is to know yourself, your true self, your Christ Self.

As noted in John 14:10 - The words I say to you I do not speak on my own authority. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work.

Making the distinction very clear here who has the authority.

If you understand that Jesus saw Christ in most, if not all, persons and never denied this in himself (like many other Christians are tempted to do), you understand why Jesus is worthy of being referenced as Christ. But to say he is Christ or Son to the exclusion of others is, in a word, blasphemy.

IMO, it is 'work of the devil' to tempt someone into believing Jesus is something that you can never be.

 

[Me Myself]

He never accepted worship as a God. He accepted peoples praise and high gratitude for what they had witnessed him doing. What do you want him to do?? tell them that they cant offer praise and acknowledgement of his deeds. Its very different from someone making you into a God.

Jesus constantly told people that the father was the one that was allowing him to do what he did. Why do people try so hard to make Jesus into God. Im sure if he intended us to see him that way he would of said so just as much as he told us that he was SENT BY GOD.

I agree with everything you say. (well, with a little variation xD)

I think he saw the potential of God in everyone, and taugh about it in the language that jews could understand. But yeah, basically I think he wasn´t going to make them feel bad when they are showing grattitude, gratitude is a nice should-be-displayed-more-often feeling

ANd as you say, he almost all the time reverted the attention back to his "Father"

 

[Me Myself]

I would say absolutely not.



Not different. He never says he is Father and does pretty decent job given limitations we have of what was actually said to make it clear that there is distinction.

IMO, it is blasphemy to worship Jesus, and thus far none in this thread can find evidence that he has asked for that. If I bow down and worship you, and you in story form (3rd party account) are not seen dismissing this, then one could conclude you accept it. It is clear, even today, that we have people who mistakenly worship Jesus. This is idolatry, plain and simple. He is an elder brother worthy of devotion (as are all brothers and sisters) and worthy of respect for his devotion to teaching and practicing love at all costs.

One who is truly Christian could (I would say often does) repeat the words of Jesus and realize they are applicable to own selves, for within you is Christ. I tell you the truth, before Abraham was born, I am! This is not statement about Jesus and is clearly statement about the Father. Jesus is letting the elders of the day know where his allegiance is.

I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. Again is message about where Christ is, in Me. In You, in Us. He is clearly telling the Apostles at this point that to know the way to the Father is to know yourself, your true self, your Christ Self.

As noted in John 14:10 - The words I say to you I do not speak on my own authority. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work.

Making the distinction very clear here who has the authority.

If you understand that Jesus saw Christ in most, if not all, persons and never denied this in himself (like many other Christians are tempted to do), you understand why Jesus is worthy of being referenced as Christ. But to say he is Christ or Son to the exclusion of others is, in a word, blasphemy.

IMO, it is 'work of the devil' to tempt someone into believing Jesus is something that you can never be.

I must say I have always looked it more or less on that way. Specially the bolded bits.

Not looking bad on those who worshp Jesus as bigger than us though, Many don´t have ill intention and must must be forgiven because "They know not what they are doing". As far as the christian in question isn´t making life a hell for anyone who doesn´t worshi Jesus and does live the live Jesus promoted, I doubt he would have had much problem.

Gladly, most really religious people here in Ecuador are not the "you are going to hell if you don´t worship him!" type, but the type that are nice, beleive with kinda blind faith, but with honestly open heart and extended hand to help everyone beleiver or not. Sure Big brother Jesus would be proud