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Was Jesus actually crucified?
- Thread starter rsd
- Start date
A
angellous_evangellous
Guest
Biblestudent_007
Active Member
Its typical of people who request evidence.
A
angellous_evangellous
Guest
What? To devour whatever garbage they find?
rsd
ACBSP77
Please help me out. Name what after myself? As far as my topic, putting aside your thoughtful comment for the sake of moving forward, this is why I first asked if anyone even cared to look into this.
A
angellous_evangellous
Guest
The "Catholic history" that you discovered. If you discover it, you get to name it whatever you want, like discovering a star or something.
Secondly, since you didn't provide the name of the document (if you didn't discover it), asking us if we want to discuss it is a rather moot point.
There's nothing to discuss, other than openly telling everyone that it is irrelevant (17th century document authoritatively questioning a first century event).
Now, I'd be interested in knowing the actual date and content of the document, but I don't know where to start because I have no idea what it is that you think you're looking at.
rsd
ACBSP77
You come across a bit rude and sarcastic. You say there is nothing to discusss. I guess I am pretty shallow to even suggest the opposite. However, when 50 Jumano Indians from Texas arrived at a Spainish Mission around 1625, their arrival created quite a stir amoung the priest. As far as missionary work in Texas, Spain was the only country involved. And from what they could gather from the indians, they came from an area in Texas untouched by Spainish priest. But what was most curious was that all the indians carried with them small crosses. They were even requesting to be baptized with water. Immediately this generated all kinds of discussion amongst the priests at the mission. What was even more astounding, was that several of the chiefs had rosary beads.
No, when I first came across this information, I didn't stake any fame to it. I simply spent around $50.00 and ordered more detailed information. At the time I was in San Angelo, Texas simply visiting my wife's mother. San Angelo is where the Jumano Indias were from - the capital of their nation, so to speak.
The rosary-bead connection is pretty interesting.
rsd
ACBSP77
I hope you follow my postings. Of course, many "stories" that date back 4-500 years can read as "myth." But the rosaries beads that the Indian Chiefs had on their possession actually ended up being an artifact. The main Spanish investigator, Fr. Benavides - was given one of the rosary beads by a chief. The Father requested that the rosary be buried with him when he died. But because he died on a ship later on in is life, I am not sure what kind of burial he actually had. Either way, I read that he wanted the rosary that the chief gave him to go to the grave with him. I'll explain more what I mean by "artifact."
rsd
ACBSP77
Actually I was addressing another memeber of this forum. Worthless gruel? Sorry. I'm not putting my thoughts down very well.
Anyhow, after the 50 indians had settled down, the chiefs were invited into the convent so that the priests could make sense out of the odd circumstances surrounding the arrival of the indians - that they had crosses, rosaries, and knew about baptism by water and other knowledge of Christian doctrine.
Upon entering the convent, the indians became very excited and began pointing at an oil painting that was hanging on the wall. It was a picture of a famous Spainish nun, Mother Luisa de Carrion. You see, the priest wanted to know where they got their rosaries from and where they got all their crosses. When the Indians saw the painting, all at once they started pointing at it and said, "a woman - like her - but young, not old." The indians told the priest that a young woman who was dressed exactly like her had given them the rosary beads and had taught them how to make their crosses. That just didn't add up. That would be impossible. But the indians insisted. Looking at the picture of Mother Lusia, Father Benevides found a clue in the way she was dressed.
fallingblood
Agnostic Theist
7 percent. I've done the math.
fallingblood
Agnostic Theist
A
angellous_evangellous
Guest
The nearest anus.
A
angellous_evangellous
Guest
That kindness is so excessive that you'll be nominated for sainthood. :yes:
A
angellous_evangellous
Guest
Yes, there's nothing to discuss. At least until you provide the details regarding your source so we can read it too. Then we can discuss it. Until then, we just have to put up with cold air.
By the way, I see the 1625 date. Is that the source from the 1600s that you reference in your first post?? A story about American Indians from Texas?
Well cut my legs off and call me shorty.
rsd
ACBSP77
I had first heard about this maybe way back in the early 90s when I didn't have Google and didn't look into it. Then when I was visiting my mother-in-law, on the front page of the San Angelo newspaper was a large picture of a nun and subsequently, for the first time I read my first account of this remarkable nun. In the newspaper several books were mentioned. One is a Dan Brown kind of book with a story line that mentions this same nun off and on. But it also mentioned another book and it is, "Maria of Agreda: Mystical Lady in Blue" by Marilyn Fedewa. This book is written on a college level by a college professor.
But as you probably know, Spanish nuns were never allowed to leave their convents in Spain, what to speak of traveling to New Spain (Mexico, America). So when the Jumano indians pointed at a painting of a nun and said that a young nun was teaching them, that was impossible. Or, was there a renegade nun or a woman impersonating a nun? Had the indians kidnapped a white woman and that was the person teaching the indians. Or, even perhaps Coronado, who had traveled thru parts of Texas 100 years earlier...did he have a white woman with him. Did she give birth and was it her child that the indians were talking about. But Coronado had never mentioned this in his records. But the blue cape that Mother luisa was wearing in the painting gave Fr. Benevides a clue. He wrote back to Spain and asked that someone visit the convents located in Northern Spain where the only nuns in Spain dressed in that color cape. That letter took almost a year to reach the church officials that Benevides had addressed it to.
But as you probably know, Spanish nuns were never allowed to leave their convents in Spain, what to speak of traveling to New Spain (Mexico, America). So when the Jumano indians pointed at a painting of a nun and said that a young nun was teaching them, that was impossible. Or, was there a renegade nun or a woman impersonating a nun? Had the indians kidnapped a white woman and that was the person teaching the indians. Or, even perhaps Coronado, who had traveled thru parts of Texas 100 years earlier...did he have a white woman with him. Did she give birth and was it her child that the indians were talking about. But Coronado had never mentioned this in his records. But the blue cape that Mother luisa was wearing in the painting gave Fr. Benevides a clue. He wrote back to Spain and asked that someone visit the convents located in Northern Spain where the only nuns in Spain dressed in that color cape. That letter took almost a year to reach the church officials that Benevides had addressed it to.