Let There Be Light and There Was Light

[Ben Masada]

Let There Be Light and There Was Light - Today, 07:48 PM



It has been an a "tohu vavohu" among many questioners, especially Christians, even many Jews, to come up with an explanation for that kind of light in Genesis 1:3 wen the sun, which gives light by day was created only on the 4th day of creation. The embarrassment is that at both, Atheists laugh. And not because they know any better in terms of an adequate answer, but for two other reasons: First, because they look for answer only in Science; and of course it is not there but in Theology. And in Theology, they laugh at us for they think
that we are all speaking about an anthropomorphic god, which, as I don't blame them: It indeed never existed.

But what light is indeed the Torah writer referring to when he reports of God as declaring, "Let there be light?"

Since before the creation of the universe it was already in the designs of God to provide for salvation of Mankind, a People whom salvation would come from, in the words of Jesus himself in John 4:22.

When for good, the Assyrians removed Israel from existence by replacing the Northern population of the Galilee with Gentiles, and after the Jews or Southern pupulation was taken for an temporary exile of 70 years in Babylon, and the time had arrived for their return to the Land of Israel, Prophet Isaiah said that the people who walked in darkness, he meant the Gentiles in Galilee, had seen a great light as the Jewish People was returning to the Land of Israel. (Isa. 9:2)

Then, later, he confirms that light of Genesis 1:3 when he explained that Israel had been assigned as light to the nations. (Isa. 42:6) But the light was to remain divided from the darkness, so that both should exist in the same world; although, in the language of the Essenes, there would always be a conflict between the children of Light and the children of darkness. Between Jews and Gentiles.

Jesus was aware of this Light as he delivered his famous Sermon of the Mount to a crowd of Jews, when he said to them: "You are the Light of the world." (Mat. 5:14) The reason why he said "you are" and not "you have" is that what one has, it can be taken away, but what one is he is no matter what. Individually, we have the light the world needs to know God. But as a People, we are the light of Genesis 1:3, which the world needs for salvation.

Ben

 

[outhouse]

one translation is "let light be made"

take into fact the story was handed down orally for hundreds of years before it was written down.

There are 4 different authors as well as a editor who freely added what he felt was right making it a total of 5 different authors. And who knows how many sources these 5 authors pulled from.

I would not put to much thought into it. These storys preceed written language

 

[Levite]

Let There Be Light and There Was Light - Today, 07:48 PM



It has been an a "tohu vavohu" among many questioners, especially Christians, even many Jews, to come up with an explanation for that kind of light in Genesis 1:3 wen the sun, which gives light by day was created only on the 4th day of creation. The embarrassment is that at both, Atheists laugh. And not because they know any better in terms of an adequate answer, but for two other reasons: First, because they look for answer only in Science; and of course it is not there but in Theology. And in Theology, they laugh at us for they think
that we are all speaking about an anthropomorphic god, which, as I don't blame them: It indeed never existed.

But what light is indeed the Torah writer referring to when he reports of God as declaring, "Let there be light?"

Since before the creation of the universe it was already in the designs of God to provide for salvation of Mankind, a People whom salvation would come from, in the words of Jesus himself in John 4:22.

When for good, the Assyrians removed Israel from existence by replacing the Northern population of the Galilee with Gentiles, and after the Jews or Southern pupulation was taken for an temporary exile of 70 years in Babylon, and the time had arrived for their return to the Land of Israel, Prophet Isaiah said that the people who walked in darkness, he meant the Gentiles in Galilee, had seen a great light as the Jewish People was returning to the Land of Israel. (Isa. 9:2)

Then, later, he confirms that light of Genesis 1:3 when he explained that Israel had been assigned as light to the nations. (Isa. 42:6) But the light was to remain divided from the darkness, so that both should exist in the same world; although, in the language of the Essenes, there would always be a conflict between the children of Light and the children of darkness. Between Jews and Gentiles.

Jesus was aware of this Light as he delivered his famous Sermon of the Mount to a crowd of Jews, when he said to them: "You are the Light of the world." (Mat. 5:14) The reason why he said "you are" and not "you have" is that what one has, it can be taken away, but what one is he is no matter what. Individually, we have the light the world needs to know God. But as a People, we are the light of Genesis 1:3, which the world needs for salvation.

Ben

Or it could have been light in the form of the early burning cosmos. Or it could have been positive spiritual energy. Or a metaphorical light of hope. Or it could have been the ARI z"l's shevirat hakelim. Or any of a thousand other different interpretations. But there is no reason to think that when the Torah says yehi ohr, it could only have meant the creation of the Jewish people versus everyone else. And as that interpretation smacks to me of Jewish supremacism, I choose to go with other interpretations.

 

[Thief]

Or it could be as simply stated in the bible....

Prior to the creation....
All is uniform....no variables...no movement ...no sound...no heat...


Let there be light.
It comes out of the darkness...that did not exist before the pronouncement.
He spoke....when no Word could be said.
His Word took form...even though, 'form' had no shape.
He declared..."I am"...and there was no echo.

But then again, this won't be solved by quoting scripture.

 

[allright]

Let There Be Light and There Was Light - Today, 07:48 PM



It has been an a "tohu vavohu" among many questioners, especially Christians, even many Jews, to come up with an explanation for that kind of light in Genesis 1:3 wen the sun, which gives light by day was created only on the 4th day of creation. The embarrassment is that at both, Atheists laugh. And not because they know any better in terms of an adequate answer, but for two other reasons: First, because they look for answer only in Science; and of course it is not there but in Theology. And in Theology, they laugh at us for they think
that we are all speaking about an anthropomorphic god, which, as I don't blame them: It indeed never existed.

But what light is indeed the Torah writer referring to when he reports of God as declaring, "Let there be light?"

Since before the creation of the universe it was already in the designs of God to provide for salvation of Mankind, a People whom salvation would come from, in the words of Jesus himself in John 4:22.

When for good, the Assyrians removed Israel from existence by replacing the Northern population of the Galilee with Gentiles, and after the Jews or Southern pupulation was taken for an temporary exile of 70 years in Babylon, and the time had arrived for their return to the Land of Israel, Prophet Isaiah said that the people who walked in darkness, he meant the Gentiles in Galilee, had seen a great light as the Jewish People was returning to the Land of Israel. (Isa. 9:2)

Then, later, he confirms that light of Genesis 1:3 when he explained that Israel had been assigned as light to the nations. (Isa. 42:6) But the light was to remain divided from the darkness, so that both should exist in the same world; although, in the language of the Essenes, there would always be a conflict between the children of Light and the children of darkness. Between Jews and Gentiles.

Jesus was aware of this Light as he delivered his famous Sermon of the Mount to a crowd of Jews, when he said to them: "You are the Light of the world." (Mat. 5:14) The reason why he said "you are" and not "you have" is that what one has, it can be taken away, but what one is he is no matter what. Individually, we have the light the world needs to know God. But as a People, we are the light of Genesis 1:3, which the world needs for salvation.

Ben

:no:
Can we get real? In Mathew 5:14 Jesus was speaking to his disciples, not to the Jewish people.
In Mathew 23:38-39 he spoke to Jerusalem and the Jewish nation saying "Behold your house is left desolate. For I say you will not see me henceforth till ye say "Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord"
Yet that day is coming soon!
Zachariah 12:10 "I will pour upon the house of David and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem the spirit of grace and of supplications and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced and they shall mourn for him as an only son"

 

[ellenjanuary]

Electromagnetic radiation. The answer is in science, as the quark-gluon plasma prevents the escape of revealing radiation during the actual "act of creation." Furthermore, there is a difference in the Bible when god speaks, when the prophet speaks, and who is the intended audience. All things considered together, and there are a vast number of things I have considered in my life to get to this simple paragraph; electromagnetic radiation.

 

[Zardoz]

Can we get real? In Mathew 5:14 Jesus was speaking to his disciples, not to the Jewish people.

How about you get real? Matthew 5.1 - 7.28

Now when Yeshua saw the crowds, he went up on a mountainside and sat down...
...When Yeshua had finished saying these things, the crowds were amazed at his teaching.

Sounds like a larger group than just his disciples, to me. Even if sometimes he only had his disciples there, guess what... they were all Jews!

 

[allright]

How about you get real? Matthew 5.1 - 7.28

Now when Yeshua saw the crowds, he went up on a mountainside and sat down...
...When Yeshua had finished saying these things, the crowds were amazed at his teaching.

Sounds like a larger group than just his disciples, to me. Even if sometimes he only had his disciples there, guess what... they were all Jews!

Mathew 5:1-2 plainly says his disciples came to him and he taught them. The teaching was for his disciples.Jesus directly said "I am the light of the world, he who follows me will not walk in darkness but will have the light of life""
Yes they were all Jews who accepted him as the Messiah. All the early Christians were Jews, as Jesus is the fulfillment of Gods promise to send the Messiah.

 

[Zardoz]

... The teaching was for his disciples...

False. If he was only teaching his disciples then explain 7.28

Jesus directly said "I am the light of the world, ....

Don't go quoting John to me, I don't accept John or Paul let's just stick to the passages in Matthew in question, shall we?

 

[Thief]

Is this about the philosophical light of the Carpenter....

or the physical light created by God?

 

[Ben Masada]

one translation is "let light be made"

take into fact the story was handed down orally for hundreds of years before it was written down.

There are 4 different authors as well as a editor who freely added what he felt was right making it a total of 5 different authors. And who knows how many sources these 5 authors pulled from.

I would not put to much thought into it. These storys preceed written language

To me, it does not matter how many years even hundred or thousands of years for the Genesis account of creation to be written. The great Philosopher Baruch the Spinoza says that Ezra was the one who wrote most the Torah from fragments found throughout the years and most of the historical writings. As long as Jews wrote my Bible, it is perfectly okay with me. I have a problem with the NT being written by Hellenistic Gentiles with the intent to distort Judaism with Greek Mythology.

 

[Ben Masada]

Or it could have been light in the form of the early burning cosmos. Or it could have been positive spiritual energy. Or a metaphorical light of hope. Or it could have been the ARI z"l's shevirat hakelim. Or any of a thousand other different interpretations. But there is no reason to think that when the Torah says yehi ohr, it could only have meant the creation of the Jewish people versus everyone else. And as that interpretation smacks to me of Jewish supremacism, I choose to go with other interpretations.

Very good! I have nothing against your choice of beliefs or whose interpretation you go with. But, remember that the Jewish "supremacism," as you see in this passage here is not mine but Isaiah's and Jesus', or even the Essenes'. They were the ones to acknowledge Israel as the light assined by God unto the Gentiles. My sin is only to have brought the quotations up to our memory of the fact. Jesus went even further ahead in a dialogue with the Jews of his time as he said, "Is it not written in your law, I said, you are gods? If he called them gods to whom the Word of God came, and the Scripture cannot be broken..." (John 35,36) Whom did the Word of God come in the words of Jesus? The answer is in Psalm 147:19,20. The Word of God was given to Israel only and to no other people on earth. That's why Isaiah said that when the Gentiles desire instruction in the Word of God, the address must be Zion, a synonym for the Jewish People. (Isa. 2:2,3) And Ezekiel said that it is my means of Israel that the Lord manifests His glory in the sight of the nations. (Ezek. 20:41)

 

[Ben Masada]

Or it could be as simply stated in the bible....

Prior to the creation....
All is uniform....no variables...no movement ...no sound...no heat...


Let there be light.
It comes out of the darkness...that did not exist before the pronouncement.
He spoke....when no Word could be said.
His Word took form...even though, 'form' had no shape.
He declared..."I am"...and there was no echo.

But then again, this won't be solved by quoting scripture.

Why not? You only have to quote and be sure of what you understand before you share your interpretation with us. You say, for example, that "light came out of darkness... that did not exist before the pronouncement." What do you mean, before the pronouncement of "Let there be light?" This pronouncement was given in Genesis 1:3. Darkness was in the universe in verse 2, as the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. Waters here could be taken as the multitudes who had no idea of even the existence of God. The light in Israel had been created so that by means of Israel God could manifest His glory in the sight of the Nations. (Ezek. 20:41)

 

[outhouse]

I have a problem with the NT being written by Hellenistic Gentiles with the intent to distort Judaism with Greek Mythology.

so do I.

I feel the same fiction of the OT was added to the NT with exactly your points.

Dont take this personaly its my opinion only and enjoy your post.


Baruch has his points but there educated guesses nothing more. We still know theres 4 authors and a liberal predactor

 

[Thief]

Why not? You only have to quote and be sure of what you understand before you share your interpretation with us. You say, for example, that "light came out of darkness... that did not exist before the pronouncement." What do you mean, before the pronouncement of "Let there be light?" This pronouncement was given in Genesis 1:3. Darkness was in the universe in verse 2, as the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. Waters here could be taken as the multitudes who had no idea of even the existence of God. The light in Israel had been created so that by means of Israel God could manifest His glory in the sight of the Nations. (Ezek. 20:41)

Let there be light...is a pronouncement....before the existence of language.
I find the circumstance remarkable.

How would God say...'I am'....without the ability to say so?
No light...no shadow.
No sound...no echo.
No substance....no touch.

The water mentioned in early Genesis is probably the most basic of elements
...in the most basic of forms.....hydrogen.
As the 'waters' draw together....fusion sets in.

Modern day scientists like to refute the previous notion of a 'big bang'...
and now they prefer the word...'expansion'.

I say...call it whatever you like.
God is the Source.

Your scripture quote is all fine and good.
Philosophical light is important.
But for this thread.....creation is the topic...
is it not?

 

[Ben Masada]

:no:
Can we get real? In Mathew 5:14 Jesus was speaking to his disciples, not to the Jewish people.
In Mathew 23:38-39 he spoke to Jerusalem and the Jewish nation saying "Behold your house is left desolate. For I say you will not see me henceforth till ye say "Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord"
Yet that day is coming soon!
Zachariah 12:10 "I will pour upon the house of David and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem the spirit of grace and of supplications and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced and they shall mourn for him as an only son"

How real do you want me to get? I don't think you are in the position to stand reality. How many disciples did Jesus have on that mount before he started his famous sermon? Twelve, I didn't hear you. TWELVE! Thank you. Now, read the impression that he caused at the end of his sermon. It is in Matthew 7:28. The people were astonished at his doctrine. This is from KJV. In the NAB, I have "and the crowds were astonished at his doctrine." Besides, you didn't even have to go to the end of his sermon, the first verse gives the multitudes that motivated Jesus to climb up the mountain and deliver his famous sermon. Now, listen to your Logic. As Jesus saw the multitudes, he went up to the mountain and delivered his speech in the ears of his twelve disciples. At the end, according to Matthew 7:28, the multitudes were astonished at his speech. Now, go ahead and tell me how much sense does it make to you now? And please, commit to memory how real one can be.

Now, regarding Zechariah 12:10, the issue is about the return of the Jews from exile in Babylon. They must have been instructed by the Prophets, especialy Ezekiel, that their exile had been temporary, only 70 years and not rejected forever as Israel was, because God had promised David that Judah would remain forever as a Lamp in Jerusalem. (I King 11:36) And this decision of God had been taken according to Psalm 78:67-69 when Israel had been rejected forever and Judah had been confirmed to stay instead of Israel. Therefore, the returning Jews, in their happiness to start anew in their new life back in Jerusalem, they would look in their memory upon Israel whom they have pierced, and they would mourn for him as one mourns for his only son. How had they pierced Israel? Judah had rejected God's Covenant, according to Isaiah 8:6 and God had doomed Judah to extinction. But for the sake of David, God's judgement sent upon Jacob had lighted upon Israel. (Isa. 9:8) That's how Judah had pierced Israel. Because the doom over Judah had been transferred to Israel, which was removed from existence in Judah's instead.

 

[Ben Masada]

Electromagnetic radiation. The answer is in science, as the quark-gluon plasma prevents the escape of revealing radiation during the actual "act of creation." Furthermore, there is a difference in the Bible when god speaks, when the prophet speaks, and who is the intended audience. All things considered together, and there are a vast number of things I have considered in my life to get to this simple paragraph; electromagnetic radiation.

Are you talking about the special effects of MRI? But as I can remember, MRI does not produce radiation. Then, with regards to God's speech, I am kind of scheptic,
since God is not like a man to speak. And He does speak but during a vision or lucid
dream. (Numb. 12:6)

 

[Ben Masada]

Is this about the philosophical light of the Carpenter....

or the physical light created by God?

Neither. The spiritual light created by God to be manifested at the time of Abraham, Isaac and Yaakov.

 

[Ben Masada]

so do I.

I feel the same fiction of the OT was added to the NT with exactly your points.

Dont take this personaly its my opinion only and enjoy your post.


Baruch has his points but there educated guesses nothing more. We still know theres 4 authors and a liberal predactor

Forgive me, but I did not understand your post.

 

[Ben Masada]

Let there be light...is a pronouncement....before the existence of language.
I find the circumstance remarkable.

How would God say...'I am'....without the ability to say so?
No light...no shadow.
No sound...no echo.
No substance....no touch.

The water mentioned in early Genesis is probably the most basic of elements
...in the most basic of forms.....hydrogen.
As the 'waters' draw together....fusion sets in.

Modern day scientists like to refute the previous notion of a 'big bang'...
and now they prefer the word...'expansion'.

I say...call it whatever you like.
God is the Source.

Your scripture quote is all fine and good.
Philosophical light is important.
But for this thread.....creation is the topic...
is it not?

Aha! I got your problem. Correct me if I am mistaken. You think that the Genesis account of Creation was written at the time of Creation? It could have been written hundreds of years, even a thousand or more, from small fragments throughout those years. Baruch de Spinosa claims that they were written by the most famous Scribe in the History of Israel: Ezra. When he wrote the spiritual proclamation, "Let it be light," physical light was in the universe for millions of years already. The Bible was written and coded with the intent to organize the nation of Israel, which before, would live from oral tradition being instructed by Priests, Levites, Scribes and Prophets. Only then, Ezra who, definitely organized the Scriptures, Jeremiah had prophecised that we would have no need to be taught anymore how to know the Lord, because we would have the Scriptures in our own heart. (Jer. 31:34)