FlyingTeaPot
Irrational Rationalist. Educated Fool.
Oh okay. I find your view to be the most interesting.
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Is God absent minded or plain evil?
- Thread starter FlyingTeaPot
- Start date
Oh okay. I find your view to be the most interesting.
FlyingTeaPot
Irrational Rationalist. Educated Fool.
Well, it hinges on a literalization of "Adam and Eve," which makes for silliness.
What's worse, if Adam and Eve had intercourse, it was essentially Adam making love to himself, since Eve is his rib given flesh.
Well that's true. I'm just trying to see how Christians explain this.
FlyingTeaPot
Irrational Rationalist. Educated Fool.
Or is God evolving us?
Keep in mind, I didn't make that defense; I've heard it given from others. I'm just playing devil's advocate. ^_^
In my humble opinion, one of two things is going on: 1. a mistake made in the compilation of the texts that made up the Torah (one of many), or 2. it is explained somewhere in the Talmud. I do not know the Talmud, so I don't know if it is or not.
You could argue that God recognizes human cultures' constant changes and diversity, and acts/gives accordingly.
If that's the case, why not just give one universal message? Well, for one, Christians believe that that is what the Gospel was for, Muslims believe that was what the Qur'an is for, and the Baha'is believe that's what their Scriptures are for. (Heck, some Hindus believe that the Bhagavad-Gita serves that purpose.)
For another, however, what do you think would happen if God came to, say, Fred Phelps, and told him to stop discriminating? I think he'd mistake God for the devil, and shun him. That's what would happen. So God needs to speak in the language of the culture.
Just my personal take on revelations. I'd like to note, however, that I'm not really a believer in divine revelations.
mickiel
Well-Known Member
Hi all,
This leads to only one logical conclusion: Either this god who forbids incest is so absent minded that he could not foresee that mankind had to engage in incest in order to continue or he knew we would have to engage in incest and forbade it on purpose because he is evil.
Thoughts? Please feel free to point out why my post is stupid if you think it is.
I think the key is Eve herself. God created her to be adams " Mate", not his sister, so it was not incest. Yet if one takes the view of incest, then their view is off base from the get go. God created her a " Seperate individual, then he " Married them himself" in Gen.2:24, and declared Eve to be his " Wife." Why he used a rib from Adam to create her, I am not quite sure, I think it has more to do with symbolic unity, rather than some perverted incest.
I think Eve is the key here, God must have given her womb the ability to give birth to different races of humans, different genes and different tribes had to have come from her, in order to avoid the obvious assumption of incest.
But still, I am not really sure, its more of a mystery to me, we just don't really know.
Peace.
TheKnight
Guardian of Life
Please note: I am only responding to this nonsense out of boredom.
Your logic is laughable. The fact that people had to sleep with their siblings in order to populate the planet, when later on the same action would be prohibited, does not make God evil/absent minded. So your initial question as to whether or not God is absent minded or evil based on that is a non-question.
The key is to remember that the rules of Torah are not applicable at all times. If the law says "Do X on Sunday" and it's not Sunday, you can't really tell me I'm doing anything wrong if I'm not doing X.
Similarly, the laws concerning incest did not come until later.
Hi all,
I just had a thought. According to the Bible, we are all descendants of Adam and Eve. If this is true, then Adam and Eve must have had sexual intercourse in order to give birth to offspring. The male offspring must have had to have sexual intercourse with either eve or the female offspring in order to continue the lineage. It seems to me that we must have gotten to this point through incest of massive scale. Yet the Bible forbids incest in Leviticus and Deuteronomy.
This leads to only one logical conclusion: Either this god who forbids incest is so absent minded that he could not foresee that mankind had to engage in incest in order to continue or he knew we would have to engage in incest and forbade it on purpose because he is evil.
In either case god is not an entity to be worshiped. He is supposed to be omni-max. The Judeo-Christian god clearly isn't.
Thoughts? Please feel free to point out why my post is stupid if you think it is.
Your logic is laughable. The fact that people had to sleep with their siblings in order to populate the planet, when later on the same action would be prohibited, does not make God evil/absent minded. So your initial question as to whether or not God is absent minded or evil based on that is a non-question.
The key is to remember that the rules of Torah are not applicable at all times. If the law says "Do X on Sunday" and it's not Sunday, you can't really tell me I'm doing anything wrong if I'm not doing X.
Similarly, the laws concerning incest did not come until later.
mickiel
Well-Known Member
Well I think his question is of intrest, or I wouldnot even comment on the post, its of intrest to me, these events in Eden. We need to make sense of them. I think Eve is the key, God didnot create her to be Adams sister or any kind of genectical Relative, he created her to be his wife, and thus was able to structure her genes accordingly. Why he used Adams rib, is of intrest to me, because that tends to suggest that she was constructed of " His Body parts", which does suggest incest, at some level, at the least his bone marrow was in her.
So I don't know, I think this is of intrest.
Peace.
FlyingTeaPot
Irrational Rationalist. Educated Fool.
You didn't read my post properly. I never suggested that Eve was Adam's sister. What I said was Adam and Eve's children had to engage in incest in order to populate the planet.
FlyingTeaPot
Irrational Rationalist. Educated Fool.
How is my logic at fault? Do you have a third option? Either god didn't foresee that incest was necessary in order to populate the planet, making him absent minded. Or he knew incest was necessary and later forbade it. That seems like hypocrisy IMO.
mickiel
Well-Known Member
I understand, your correct. Even still, I still think Eve's womb is the key. In order to avoid incest, Mother Eve must have had a womb like no other human female ever has had, and I think God had the ability to create that, so as not to contridict himself later. I think that Eves children were of different races, different genes, different chromozones, which literally didNOT make them relatives, but distinct individuals from each other.
Peace.
Which is further divided by Christians who take the story literally and Christians who take it symbolically.
Not to mention those who admit they just don't know.
TheKnight
Guardian of Life
He foresaw it. Knew it was necessary. And yet had it go that way anyways. It isn't hypocrasy, it's a simple matter of not every rule is applicable in every situation. For instance, it is illegal to go out and shoot someone with a gun because you feel like it. However, if you have a gun and you see someone trying to kill someone else it isn't illegal for you to shoot the pursuer.
FlyingTeaPot
Irrational Rationalist. Educated Fool.
So in your opinion, murder was okay before god set it down as a sin, right?
TheKnight
Guardian of Life
Sure. An action is only good or evil if God says that it is. Otherwise it has no inherent moral value.
FlyingTeaPot
Irrational Rationalist. Educated Fool.
So, following this logic, it was okay to do anything until god forbade it later on right? Then why was Cain punished for killing Abel? God clearly had not mentioned that murder was a sin until much later than genesis.
FlyingTeaPot
Irrational Rationalist. Educated Fool.
Same question as above.
TheKnight
Guardian of Life
Well, for starters he mentioned Murder first in Genesis 9. Secondly, technically the Torah does not call Cain's murder of Abel a sin.
Granted, I also believe that it was a sin because God punished him for it, and God is just. The only response I could give would be that there is more to the story than is written in the Tanakh alone.
FlyingTeaPot
Irrational Rationalist. Educated Fool.
Seems like god left a lot of technicalities and loopholes for apologetics to cover it up.
My point all along has been that what god came up with as morality, men could have easily.
Danmac
Well-Known Member
Hi all,
I just had a thought. According to the Bible, we are all descendants of Adam and Eve. If this is true, then Adam and Eve must have had sexual intercourse in order to give birth to offspring. The male offspring must have had to have sexual intercourse with either eve or the female offspring in order to continue the lineage. It seems to me that we must have gotten to this point through incest of massive scale. Yet the Bible forbids incest in Leviticus and Deuteronomy.
This leads to only one logical conclusion: Either this god who forbids incest is so absent minded that he could not foresee that mankind had to engage in incest in order to continue or he knew we would have to engage in incest and forbade it on purpose because he is evil.
In either case god is not an entity to be worshiped. He is supposed to be omni-max. The Judeo-Christian god clearly isn't.
Thoughts? Please feel free to point out why my post is stupid if you think it is.
The law forbidding marriage between close relatives was not given until the time of Moses Lev 18:20. In the beginning everything was perfect. The biological deformities that result from marrying a close relative would not have been an issue at that time. As the curse grew the chance of biological deformities resulting from intermarrying would have increased with it. That is the reason for the law. btw thru Adam and Eve we are all relatives.