Is the Mind really a spirit?

[Beyondo]

I've gone and done a really juvenile thing. I bought a coloring book and I colored all the tracings in it! Only this coloring book depicts the anatomy of the human brain... So what right? Well...there was an eerie sense of mechanism when I saw how fiber connections flared out like those fiber optic lamps that are sold on Amazon, and the interconnecting fibers between lobes looked like ribbon cables! Then when covering the development of the brain the neurons move about like amoebas! All this mechanization and I couldn't find the mind!

Some call the mind a gestalt which makes all that mechanization a sum of the parts that end up as the whole. But what does that mean? If I look at a computer program and see its code I can sequence what a machine will do. Now the parts of this machine are clueless as to what programming code is. The machine in fact doesn't really do math or searches. The machine's components just exchange electrons, switches turning on and off. So where's my code in this machine? Yet the machine ends up creating a gestalt called my application. Its as if my program where some kind of spirit or ghost inside my desktop, its not physical at all!

I like to think of the gestalt of anything as a theme of a machine's mechanics. The theme of a program isn't physical, no really its not. Just try and find it in a code listing it won't be there. But yet this theme can interact with the physical world. Is it a great leap to think of the human mind as the theme resulting from biological operations? And if so, then wouldn't that make the mind non-physical?

 

[Willamena]

The ability to image (often referred to as imagination) is a powerful thing.

 

[logician]

I've gone and done a really juvenile thing. I bought a coloring book and I colored all the tracings in it! Only this coloring book depicts the anatomy of the human brain... So what right? Well...there was an eerie sense of mechanism when I saw how fiber connections flared out like those fiber optic lamps that are sold on Amazon, and the interconnecting fibers between lobes looked like ribbon cables! Then when covering the development of the brain the neurons move about like amoebas! All this mechanization and I couldn't find the mind!

Some call the mind a gestalt which makes all that mechanization a sum of the parts that end up as the whole. But what does that mean? If I look at a computer program and see its code I can sequence what a machine will do. Now the parts of this machine are clueless as to what programming code is. The machine in fact doesn't really do math or searches. The machine's components just exchange electrons, switches turning on and off. So where's my code in this machine? Yet the machine ends up creating a gestalt called my application. Its as if my program where some kind of spirit or ghost inside my desktop, its not physical at all!

I like to think of the gestalt of anything as a theme of a machine's mechanics. The theme of a program isn't physical, no really its not. Just try and find it in a code listing it won't be there. But yet this theme can interact with the physical world. Is it a great leap to think of the human mind as the theme resulting from biological operations? And if so, then wouldn't that make the mind non-physical?

The mind is simply the functioning of the brain, what leads you to think a supposed spirit can think (has neurons)? If the brain dies, so does its functioning, and the person.

 

[Hevenly Heathen]

I can see where the theory is headed, but I have always believed the mind and spirit as separate. It makes no sense for the spirit to be trapped within the body, else it would be terminated when life is. Mind and spirit can make an impression on one other, but they are not the same.

 

[Satans_Serrated_Edge]

Looking for the mind in the brain is a little like looking for the 'vroom' in the engine.

 

[Beyondo]

The mind is simply the functioning of the brain, what leads you to think a supposed spirit can think (has neurons)? If the brain dies, so does its functioning, and the person.

I don't believe a mind can exist without a brain, which is why I used the analogy of a desktop application.

 

[Beyondo]

Looking for the mind in the brain is a little like looking for the 'vroom' in the engine.

The "vroom" is the sound of the exhaust exiting the exhaust pipes and because it is energy it can be measured. The mind is more like the theme of a play, it is the result of something that is able to apply synergy to all the parts so that it can be one, feel as one and act as one. We can't find it in any physical sense because how can one measure a theme? Does a theme have weight, dimension or viscosity? How does one physically measure a persona?

 

[Satans_Serrated_Edge]

All evidence seems to indicate that 'mind' is an effect of the electrochemical gooey brain machine. Why do people feel the need to cram an extraneous layer of mystical hokey poky into this? Invoking magical reasoning never leads to anything productive.

 

[Hevenly Heathen]

Hmm... I believe the mind can be solved through science. The energy emitted between neurons can be measured, that was not the issue, however, but where thoughts and personality originate. We are barraged with information and experience since birth, and are taught or shown how to act. In the beginning we are more or less alike to another baby, but as we grow and are further influenced by our surroundings and genetic makeup, we place filters and thought patterns in place so subtly, that we fool our minds into believing we don't make even the most mundane choice of putting one foot before the other, but we do, it is simply on a automated "circuit," as are many processes of the mind. Personality, likes/dislikes, wants, attitude, and many more function through subconscious routes, so our conscious mind can absorb new input. There are terabytes of information passing through our senses, if our conscious mind were to deal with everything, it would overload. Our mind is the product of choices, environment and genetic makeup ran through and by an electrochemical gooey brain machine.

At least that's my opinion.

 

[Madhuri]

The consciousness is 'spirit' (whatever you understand spirit to be) but the mind is completely dependent on the brain and the physical.

The above is my belief, not science.

 

[Beyondo]

All evidence seems to indicate that 'mind' is an effect of the electrochemical gooey brain machine. Why do people feel the need to cram an extraneous layer of mystical hokey poky into this? Invoking magical reasoning never leads to anything productive.

I agree that the mind is a product of the brain but explain how you're sense of self is realized. If you look at the neurons you won't find the self. If we remove neurons from the brain then perhaps certain aspects of yourself change but you still experience "self". There is no magic here, we can't measure self, we can observe it, notice changes of it but we can't measure it. In fact there is no physical attribute of self. So it would appear that a non-physical essence can be produced by a physical process. This really is no different than what many would call a virtual product, ineffect the mind is not real but virtual.

 

[Hevenly Heathen]

The consciousness is 'spirit' (whatever you understand spirit to be) but the mind is completely dependent on the brain and the physical.

The above is my belief, not science.

But then how do you account for other entities containing a spirit but seemingly no-consciousness?

I agree that the mind is a product of the brain but explain how you're sense of self is realized. If you look at the neurons you won't find the self. If we remove neurons from the brain then perhaps certain aspects of yourself change but you still experience "self". There is no magic here, we can't measure self, we can observe it, notice changes of it but we can't measure it. In fact there is no physical attribute of self. So it would appear that a non-physical essence can be produced by a physical process. This really is no different than what many would call a virtual product, ineffect the mind is not real but virtual.

A sense of self first arises from the primal survival instinct. Once survival is granted, we are free to notice the world around and see the patterns, fitting ourselves into the patterns. Seeing how we fit into the patterns gives us a sense of relation to the world. Combine this with all of the information we are exposed to constantly, genetic makeup, lessons learned through others and experience, latent emotions, the myriad of intrinsic filters built throughout our lives, and we have a result of self. It is not much more than a program on a computer: the combination of variables programmed and input received. If you want to get technical, no it isn't physical, but it is an effect of many causes. And though one may not be able to measure self, it is possible to control self.

The soul/spirit is something else entirely. Whether you believe it is the bearer of Karma, or the combination of heaven and earth essence, or a being pre-existing outside physical form, or the breath of life, or simply a thread in the universal web, it does not depend on the physical, but the physical is heavily influenced by it.

 

[Beyondo]

The soul/spirit is something else entirely. Whether you believe it is the bearer of Karma, or the combination of heaven and earth essence, or a being pre-existing outside physical form, or the breath of life, or simply a thread in the universal web, it does not depend on the physical, but the physical is heavily influenced by it.

Now you're defining something that is based on belief and not observation, the soul/spirit. Note I say observation because conciousness is not physical yet it is observable. Conciousness, as a form of information, proves that despite its virtualness it can still affect the physical universe, and so information can act on information. It is irrelevent if the information is virtual or physical so long as something physical can interpret(act on) it.

The notion of spirit in the religous context has no validity as a context outside the physical, but the religous context of spirit may very well be the experiences of dreams and/or drug induced hallucinations. Too many religous references refer to spirit world as an experience from a dream or drug induced hallucination. Even biblical scripture uses the dream world as a medium for the spirits. So ineffect religion without knowing it is speaking of the mind/spirit/soul as a virtual product of the brain, just as the dream world is a virtual product of the brain...

 

[Hevenly Heathen]

I know I am defining belief when I speak of soul/spirit, but as I had just defined my view of the mind and self, I thought I'd at least provide some spittle of my view of the soul/spirit. Take it as you will.

 

[Madhuri]

But then how do you account for other entities containing a spirit but seemingly no-consciousness?

Everything contains consciousness, even if the entity itself is not conscious.

 

[Hevenly Heathen]

Everything contains consciousness, even if the entity itself is not conscious.

Or we cannot detect that consciousness ourselves. I agree.

 

[Beyondo]

Everything contains consciousness, even if the entity itself is not conscious.

How so?

 

[Beyondo]

The notion of spirit in the religous context has no validity as a context outside the physical, but the religous context of spirit may very well be the experiences of dreams and/or drug induced hallucinations. Too many religous references refer to spirit world as an experience from a dream or drug induced hallucination. Even biblical scripture uses the dream world as a medium for the spirits. So ineffect religion without knowing it is speaking of the mind/spirit/soul as a virtual product of the brain, just as the dream world is a virtual product of the brain...

I'd like to also add that lucid dreaming is another form of spirit travel or experience religions like Hinduism use to confirm thier beliefs. The evidence that religion is really talking about virtual products of the brain is overwhelming. Religous man is effectively misinterpreting the brain's virtual reality as a different form of a "phsysical" reality.

But how real could these experiences feel if religous man can tell the difference between spirit world and the physical world? Note that schizophrenics can't make the distinction between the brains virtual reality and the physical world. Voices and images supper impose themselves over thier senses making them indistinguishable from reality.

 

[logician]

I agree that the mind is a product of the brain but explain how you're sense of self is realized. If you look at the neurons you won't find the self. If we remove neurons from the brain then perhaps certain aspects of yourself change but you still experience "self". There is no magic here, we can't measure self, we can observe it, notice changes of it but we can't measure it. In fact there is no physical attribute of self. So it would appear that a non-physical essence can be produced by a physical process. This really is no different than what many would call a virtual product, ineffect the mind is not real but virtual.

If you remove enough neurons, you lose "self". A case can be made that we are little more than organic robots.

 

[footprints]

I've gone and done a really juvenile thing. I bought a coloring book and I colored all the tracings in it! Only this coloring book depicts the anatomy of the human brain... So what right? Well...there was an eerie sense of mechanism when I saw how fiber connections flared out like those fiber optic lamps that are sold on Amazon, and the interconnecting fibers between lobes looked like ribbon cables! Then when covering the development of the brain the neurons move about like amoebas! All this mechanization and I couldn't find the mind!

Some call the mind a gestalt which makes all that mechanization a sum of the parts that end up as the whole. But what does that mean? If I look at a computer program and see its code I can sequence what a machine will do. Now the parts of this machine are clueless as to what programming code is. The machine in fact doesn't really do math or searches. The machine's components just exchange electrons, switches turning on and off. So where's my code in this machine? Yet the machine ends up creating a gestalt called my application. Its as if my program where some kind of spirit or ghost inside my desktop, its not physical at all!

I like to think of the gestalt of anything as a theme of a machine's mechanics. The theme of a program isn't physical, no really its not. Just try and find it in a code listing it won't be there. But yet this theme can interact with the physical world. Is it a great leap to think of the human mind as the theme resulting from biological operations? And if so, then wouldn't that make the mind non-physical?

Simply put, humans do not have a mind, we have a brain. The mind is a referral to our conscious awareness.

This notwithstanding, that which is generated within the brain, doesn't only remain in the brain or in the physical body which contains the brain. Under MRI, images of the body's aura (magnetic field produced from the electrochemical reaction) can clearly be identified. The stronger the electric field, the stronger the magnetic field extends from the mortal body.