Ethics, principals and morals

[Storm]

That horse took a while to kill, actually he was beaten long after he was dead.

Let us try this again, as a Christian I do not believe in same sex marriage as homosexuality is against the teachings of my holy book. I do not believe that a church has a right to marry same sex couples as they are going against their teachings. It is not Biblical.

Slavery, otoh, is. People have moved on since the Bible was written.

You don't get to say what's appropriate for anyone but your own church.

 

[Archer]

Slavery, otoh, is. People have moved on since the Bible was written.

You don't get to say what's appropriate for anyone but your own church.

Yet they claim to believe in it's teachings? Why dont they just become atheists?

BTW: interesting fact, slavery is a big trade in Muslim Africa.

 

[MoonWater]

I made it very clear what it is that I support. Since you refuse to agree with what I support or give what I stand for I assume that you are at war against families. I assume that your ideal is to destroy any and every family headed by a loving and caring biological father and a loving and caring biological mother. I assume that you hate even your own family - including your brothers and sisters and you want to destroy any future of human society. And for all that I stand against your hate and war against families.


Would it not be better to discuss things without jumping to conclusions and without making accusations? I said nothing about anything that you accused me of. For that reason alone I am concerned that the supporters of homosexuality do not intend to have an open and informing discussion but intend to distort any criticism and demonize even the thought of real logical thinking or any in depth study.

My conclusion is that rather than use real data or and actual information or logic that proponents utilize tactics of suppression. I am sorry until there is something of substance I reject the arguments.
Zadok

ok, first off, I mad no accusations nor did I "jump to any conclusions". I asked you questions about your stance. Now granted perhaps I could have worded them better but my issue was to make a point not make you look like a bad guy or demonize your stance. I don't think you or anyone for that matter would honestly answer yes to those questions. My point was that if you place your sole focus on making sure kids are raised by their biological parents then those functions I asked about will suffer. It was also to make the point that the parents a child is born to are not always the best people for the job as your stance seems to assume.(emphasis on seems to)

Here's a better way of putting it: do you feel it is better for a child to be raised by their biological parents or by parents who are loving and compassionate who may or may not be their biological parents? Please note that in the second option biology is not a part of it, love and compassion are. So in other words which do you feel is the more important aspect of parenting, biology or love and compassion?

 

[Storm]

Yet they claim to believe in it's teachings? Why dont they just become atheists?

Do you support slavery?

 

[Archer]

New Testament show me? Neither Jesus nor St. Paul, nor any other Biblical figure is recorded as saying anything in opposition to the institution of slavery. Slavery was very much a part of life in Judea, Galilee, and in the rest of the Roman Empire during New Testament times. I do not believe in slavery and it is neutral to a point in the new testament.

However if you care to read some of the Old Testament slaves were more indentured servants than beaten down creatures as the Jews were by the Nazi regime.

 

[Storm]

New Testament show me? Neither Jesus nor St. Paul, nor any other Biblical figure is recorded as saying anything in opposition to the institution of slavery. Slavery was very much a part of life in Judea, Galilee, and in the rest of the Roman Empire during New Testament times. I do not believe in slavery and it is neutral to a point in the new testament.

However if you care to read some of the Old Testament slaves were more indentured servants than beaten down creatures as the Jews were by the Nazi regime.

Is that a yes or a no?

 

[Archer]

Is that a yes or a no?

In my last post I answered that.

New Testament show me? Neither Jesus nor St. Paul, nor any other Biblical figure is recorded as saying anything in opposition to the institution of slavery. Slavery was very much a part of life in Judea, Galilee, and in the rest of the Roman Empire during New Testament times. I do not believe in slavery and it is neutral to a point in the new testament.

However if you care to read some of the Old Testament slaves were more indentured servants than beaten down creatures as the Jews were by the Nazi regime.

 

[Archer]

The laws of man as long as not in conflict with the laws of God are to be obeyed.

 

[Storm]

In my last post I answered that.

New Testament show me? Neither Jesus nor St. Paul, nor any other Biblical figure is recorded as saying anything in opposition to the institution of slavery. Slavery was very much a part of life in Judea, Galilee, and in the rest of the Roman Empire during New Testament times. I do not believe in slavery and it is neutral to a point in the new testament.

However if you care to read some of the Old Testament slaves were more indentured servants than beaten down creatures as the Jews were by the Nazi regime.

Well, if you don't believe in slavery, despite the Bible's clear endorsement, why don't YOU just become an atheist?

 

[MoonWater]

That horse took a while to kill, actually he was beaten long after he was dead.

Let us try this again, as a Christian I do not believe in same sex marriage as homosexuality is against the teachings of my holy book. I do not believe that a church has a right to marry same sex couples as they are going against their teachings. It is not Biblical.

you know it would take another thread to debate the matter but I do feel like bringing this up in case you are interested in discussing it elsewhere. I've done some reading on the subject and from what I've read scholars have found that the bible, when read and studied in it's original language does not support that conclusion and indeed at most could only be seen as saying that Jews should not partake in homosexual relations and that rule was simply one of the many rules meant to separate the Jews from the Canaanites. There are also many Christians who feel that, since they are followers of Christ, Christ's teachings are the most important thing for them to follow and since Christ makes no mention of homosexuality but several mentions of loving others and fixing yourself before trying to fix others, that it is not their place to stand against same sex couples. Indeed there are numerous arguments that could be made against the idea of homosexuality being "non-biblical" or "un-Christian". But like I said, that's for another thread if you are actually interested in discussing it.

On a personal level I feel that if they want to live like that so be it. It does not affect me, until a Christian church allows it. I have Gay friends and they know how I feel and thet dont have a problem with it!! BTW I will lay down my life for my friends as I do love them I just dont like the things the do.

Anyone else care to share their beliefs on this subject, and note their faith? I hope we can do this in a civil way.

I am fully in favor of same-sex marriage and same sex couples. I see them as being no different than opposite sex couples beyond simple biology. indeed I am in full support of all forms of romantic love whether they be hetero, homo, mono, poly, or open relationships. I feel that just because I have a preference in one direction that does not give me the right to say others should not be allowed to pursue different preferences. As for my faith I am still searching but am currently leaning toward the Feri Tradition which falls under Paganism. And yes the Feri Tradition agrees with my views.

 

[Archer]

The New Testament Does not endorse it it is newtral. I am not a Jew.

 

[Storm]

The New Testament Does not endorse it it is newtral. I am not a Jew.

So, you pick and choose. According to your own words, you might as well become an atheist.

BTW, Jesus never spoke against homosexuality, either.

 

[Archer]

So, you pick and choose. According to your own words, you might as well become an atheist.

BTW, Jesus never spoke against homosexuality, either.

Jesus was a jew! He followed the Jewish traditions and the laws of Moses and therefore could not endorse homosexuality, however Paul speaks against homosexuality.

I do not pick and choose thank you much!!! I can back up my faith with the Bible though you may have a hard time using the same Bible to debunk anything I say.

 

[Storm]

Jesus was a jew! He followed the Jewish traditions and the laws of Moses and therefore could not endorse homosexuality, however Paul speaks against homosexuality.

And is Paul equal in authority to Christ?

I do not pick and choose thank you much!!!

Yeah, you do. You ignore the clear endorsement of slavery, and probably hundreds of other rules. You just hypocritically condemn others for doing the same.

I can back up my faith with the Bible though you may have a hard time using the same Bible to debunk anything I say.

I don't cliam to be a Biblical scholar, not that it matters. You pick and choose.

 

[Archer]

And is Paul equal in authority to Christ?

Paul was granted that authority on the road to Damascus.

Yeah, you do. You ignore the clear endorsement of slavery, and probably hundreds of other rules. You just hypocritically condemn others for doing the same.

Reference from New Testament please? Paul did tell a slave to go back to his owner one time.

I don't cliam to be a Biblical scholar, not that it matters. You pick and choose.

Point out one thing please.

 

[Storm]

Paul was granted that authority on the road to Damascus.

You think Paul was Christ's equal and call yourself a Christian?

Reference from New Testament please? Paul did tell a slave to go back to his owner one time.

I don't need the NT, you're ignoring all of the Old.

Point out one thing please.

Already have.

 

[Archer]

You think Paul was Christ's equal and call yourself a Christian?

Do not see me as a fool. Paul was given insight into the lord and his ways and spoke for the lord.

This is from Acts

1And Saul, yet breathing out threatenings and slaughter against the disciples of the Lord, went unto the high priest, 2And desired of him letters to Damascus to the synagogues, that if he found any of this way, whether they were men or women, he might bring them bound unto Jerusalem.
3And as he journeyed, he came near Damascus: and suddenly there shined round about him a light from heaven:
4And he fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?
5And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.
6And he trembling and astonished said, Lord, what wilt thou have me to do? And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the city, and it shall be told thee what thou must do.
7And the men which journeyed with him stood speechless, hearing a voice, but seeing no man.
8And Saul arose from the earth; and when his eyes were opened, he saw no man: but they led him by the hand, and brought him into Damascus.
9And he was three days without sight, and neither did eat nor drink.
10And there was a certain disciple at Damascus, named Ananias; and to him said the Lord in a vision, Ananias. And he said, Behold, I am here, Lord.
11And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the street which is called Straight, and enquire in the house of Judas for one called Saul, of Tarsus: for, behold, he prayeth,
12And hath seen in a vision a man named Ananias coming in, and putting his hand on him, that he might receive his sight.
13Then Ananias answered, Lord, I have heard by many of this man, how much evil he hath done to thy saints at Jerusalem:
14And here he hath authority from the chief priests to bind all that call on thy name.
15But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel:
16For I will shew him how great things he must suffer for my name's sake.

You accuse my faith?

I don't need the NT, you're ignoring all of the Old.

No, I know the old but evidently you know nothing of the new covenant. I am not a JEW for the last time. Christ is the new covenant the law and commandments were the old.

Already have.

I saw no reference to scripture only conjecture and filler.

 

[Storm]

Whatever. You're a hypocrite, condemning your own practices.

 

[Archer]

Whatever. You're a hypocrite, condemning your own practices.

Yet you offer nothing tangible to retort what I have said? Perhaps you thought that because I have a low post count I was a child that could be frightened by conjecture. If you will post some scripture from the new testament to back up your claims I will be glad to discuss them with you.

BTW: Where have I been a hypocrite? That is always what is said when one without faith comes in contact with one they can not deceive.

 

[Storm]

Yet you offer nothing tangible to retort what I have said? Perhaps you thought that because I have a low post count I was a child that could be frightened by conjecture. If you will post some scripture from the new testament to back up your claims I will be glad to discuss them with you.

In insisting on references from the NT, you exclude the OT. I don't require a reference, you prove my point for me. You pick and choose.