Muslims, Jews, & Christians - A look at the seperation.

[Just_me_Mike]

For those that follow a religion or believe in a God, it can often times be sad and emotional when thinking about those in a different faith. Even, more so if you feel choosing a path can lead to life or death. I know this feeling is prevalent among the three mentioned religions.
With Muslims, the road to heaven is paved by following the right rules and living your life in a Good way that pleases Allah
With Jews, the road to heaven is paved with laws and ordinances and the hope of future promises.
With Christians, the road to heaven is through Jesus. Though we find in the later days many Christians working to get into heaven.

Regardless, there is one binding thing to each of these religions, and it can only be Jesus.
Jesus, is said to be the Messiah which the Jews still await for.
And for the Muslims, he is not the Christ or Son of God, so they are left to follow more rules and regulations.
For the Christian Jesus has also become a problem. In our day and age it is becoming more popular to rely on just being a good person, rather than admit we are a sorry lot, and rely on Jesus.

So either way we look at it Jesus impacts each of these religions, and in many way is what seperates each of them. Below are some verses to reflect on.
Isaiah Ch 8

"14": And he shall be for a sanctuary; but for a stone of stumbling and for a rock of offence to both the houses of Israel, for a gin and for a snare to the inhabitants of Jerusalem.
"15": And many among them shall stumble, and fall, and be broken, and be snared, and be taken.

1st Peter Ch 2

"6": Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded.
"7": Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner,
"8": And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.

Romans Ch 9

"32": Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;
"33": As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

Luke Ch 20

"17": And he beheld them, and said, What is this then that is written, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner?
"18": Whosoever shall fall upon that stone shall be broken; but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder.

Matthew Ch 21

"42": Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?
"43": Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.
"44": And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder.

 

[Poisonshady313]

Regardless, there is one binding thing to each of these religions, and it can only be Jesus.

That's not entirely accurate.

Jesus, is said to be the Messiah which the Jews still await for.

According to CHRISTIANS, not according to Jews.


As far as Judaism is concerned, Jesus is irrelevant. The ideal situtaion, when you ask a Jew about Jesus, should be the response "who?"

and in many way is what seperates each of them.

It only seperates them in one way.... and that is how they regard him.

Jesus is nothing to the Jews, everything to Christians, and somewhere in between for Muslims.

 

[Just_me_Mike]

That's not entirely accurate.

According to CHRISTIANS, not according to Jews.


As far as Judaism is concerned, Jesus is irrelevant. The ideal situtaion, when you ask a Jew about Jesus, should be the response "who?"



It only seperates them in one way.... and that is how they regard him.

Jesus is nothing to the Jews, everything to Christians, and somewhere in between for Muslims.

I agree with you that he is nothing to Jews. What I disagree with is that he does not play a role in Judaism.
Because Jews still await the Christ, Jesus does effect the Jew and Christian relationship, because he is suppose to be the Christ. Yes, I know not to you, but to billions He is.

I merely pointed out that it was Jesus that is the true stumbling stone between each of these religions. By stumbling stone I mean that which DISALLOWS the religions from coming together. Nothing more.

 

[kai]

how can we debate three faiths in the same faith debate section?

 

[Just_me_Mike]

how can we debate three faiths in the same faith debate section?

Well I wasn't sure where to put this, since it dealt with three religions. I saw the Abraham section, but that was not a debate section.

Just rub it in why don't you

 

[Poisonshady313]

I agree with you that he is nothing to Jews. What I disagree with is that he does not play a role in Judaism.

The truth is, he doesn't. If a Jew can live his whole life studying the Torah, being an exemplary member of his community, and have a rich and fulfilling life, he shouldn't even have to hear the name Jesus.

The only reason any Jew would have to hear about Jesus is because a Christian is trying to interfere with the Jew practicing his faith.

Jesus is irrelevant to Judaism. Jewish children do not learn about him, Jewish teachers do not teach about him... books about him are not found in any Jewish bookstore.

 

[Poisonshady313]

Well I wasn't sure where to put this, since it dealt with three religions. I saw the Abraham section, but that was not a debate section.

"General Religious Debates"

 

[Just_me_Mike]

The truth is, he doesn't. If a Jew can live his whole life studying the Torah, being an exemplary member of his community, and have a rich and fulfilling life, he shouldn't even have to hear the name Jesus.

The only reason any Jew would have to hear about Jesus is because a Christian is trying to interfere with the Jew practicing his faith.

Jesus is irrelevant to Judaism. Jewish children do not learn about him, Jewish teachers do not teach about him... books about him are not found in any Jewish bookstore.

Now this is isolationism at its best. Keep the children from knowing who Jesus is. That's clever.

All I am saying, is that the children of Judaism will be taught of Christ. Naturally they will wonder about this Jesus fellow who is said by others to be the Christ. Of course they will be taught at an early age He isn't correct for this or that reason. that is fine, I am not arguing that.

I am simply saying Jesus will be a huge factor in the life of a Jewish person. Take yourself for example. I think you are a Jew, so it is easy to tell from your many many posts, that you know A LOT about Jesus. You spend so much time proving His worthlessness. Right or wrong He has been important in your life.

If you want to claim something other than that, do better than you have so far.

 

[blueman]

For those that follow a religion or believe in a God, it can often times be sad and emotional when thinking about those in a different faith. Even, more so if you feel choosing a path can lead to life or death. I know this feeling is prevalent among the three mentioned religions.
With Muslims, the road to heaven is paved by following the right rules and living your life in a Good way that pleases Allah
With Jews, the road to heaven is paved with laws and ordinances and the hope of future promises.
With Christians, the road to heaven is through Jesus. Though we find in the later days many Christians working to get into heaven.

Regardless, there is one binding thing to each of these religions, and it can only be Jesus.
Jesus, is said to be the Messiah which the Jews still await for.
And for the Muslims, he is not the Christ or Son of God, so they are left to follow more rules and regulations.
For the Christian Jesus has also become a problem. In our day and age it is becoming more popular to rely on just being a good person, rather than admit we are a sorry lot, and rely on Jesus.

So either way we look at it Jesus impacts each of these religions, and in many way is what seperates each of them. Below are some verses to reflect on.
Isaiah Ch 81st Peter Ch 2Romans Ch 9 Luke Ch 20Matthew Ch 21

I agree that the core doctrine that differentiates these global religions center around Jesus and the view of Jesus is dramatically different. The main basis for Christianity is not applicable to religion, but applicable to a relationship with God through Jesus Christ. As much as people will try to cling to good works, we will never live up to God's righteous standard. That's why He has given us Jesus to impute righteousness on our behalf. He bore our sins, past, present and future. People who try to follow a legalistic, moral high standard typically experience dissapointment, become downright self-righteous and in some ways, very bigoted. That's why Jesus stressed that He was the way, truth and life and no man cometh unto the Father, but by Him (John 14:6). We will never be able to work our way into heaven.

 

[Poisonshady313]

Now this is isolationism at its best. Keep the children from knowing who Jesus is. That's clever.

All I am saying, is that the children of Judaism will be taught of Christ. Naturally they will wonder about this Jesus fellow who is said by others to be the Christ. Of course they will be taught at an early age He isn't correct for this or that reason. that is fine, I am not arguing that.

I am simply saying Jesus will be a huge factor in the life of a Jewish person. Take yourself for example. I think you are a Jew, so it is easy to tell from your many many posts, that you know A LOT about Jesus. You spend so much time proving His worthlessness. Right or wrong He has been important in your life.

If you want to claim something other than that, do better than you have so far.

I have the misfortune of having been approached by various missionaries... mormons, jehovas witnesses, jews for jesus, and plain ole run of the mill "Jesus died for you" missionaries.

To avoid accusations of ignorance or blindness when turning these people away, it becomes useful to learn the answer to the question "why not?".

Missionaries are very persistent and deceptive, and it helps to be able to counter their statements from an informed position.

But Jews who grow up and live in Jewish communities and don't come into contact with Christian people have no need to read anything about "Jesus". The name doesn't come up. He is irrelevant to the ideal and traditional Jewish experience.

The fact that Jews in America are surrounded by Christians doesn't make Jesus more important. It makes him more irritating.

 

[Poisonshady313]

Now this is isolationism at its best. Keep the children from knowing who Jesus is. That's clever.

It's no more "isolationism" than not teaching your kids about vishnu, apollo, thor, or xenu.

 

[Just_me_Mike]

It's no more "isolationism" than not teaching your kids about vishnu, apollo, thor, or xenu.

Please reply to my whole last post.

 

[Poisonshady313]

Please reply to my whole last post.

I did already.

 

[TheKnight]

Regardless, there is one binding thing to each of these religions, and it can only be Jesus.

You are sadly confused. First of all, Jesus doesn't bind these three religions together. As Poisonshady was trying to explain to you, Jesus is nothing in Judaism. He's a non-character.

Do you want to know what the real binding factor is between these three religions? The Torah. The Tanakh.

Christianity and Islam both accept the Jewish Tanakh as being true. Christians take the Jewish scriptures and try to tell the Jews that they don't understand their book that's written in a language that many Christians don't even understand. The Muslims make a similar claim in that they claim the Tanakh is incomplete and corrupted.

So if anything, one should look at the fact that the Jews had the Tanakh first, and the fact that Christians and Muslism believe that God gave the Jews the Torah, and the fact that the Jews reject Christianity entirely (Islam is OK because it doesn't violate the Noahide laws).

. By stumbling stone I mean that which DISALLOWS the religions from coming together. Nothing more.

You know what stops the 3 religions from coming together?

1. Christians claim that the Jews are blind, the seat of Satan, god-killers, etc etc etc. Jews are open to peace with Christians, it's the Christians who just can't help but try to tell the Jews who their Messiah is. The saddest thing is the fact that the Christians are dead wrong.

2. There are those Muslims (and I do believe it is written in the Koran) who feel that Allah wants the Jews to be eliminated. Jews are open to peace with Muslims. And in many cases, the Jews do have peace with Muslims. Religiously, Jews have little to no conflict with the Muslims because Muslims are considered to be within the stipulations of the Noahide laws.

So guess what, the stumbling block isn't Jesus. It's the two religions who try to claim that they know Jewish scriptures better than the Jews. And surely you can't expect the Jews to believe that the Christians (with their thousands of denomination) that they know better.

 

[Just_me_Mike]

I have the misfortune of having been approached by various missionaries... mormons, jehovas witnesses, jews for jesus, and plain ole run of the mill "Jesus died for you" missionaries.

To avoid accusations of ignorance or blindness when turning these people away, it becomes useful to learn the answer to the question "why not?".

Missionaries are very persistent and deceptive, and it helps to be able to counter their statements from an informed position.

But Jews who grow up and live in Jewish communities and don't come into contact with Christian people have no need to read anything about "Jesus". The name doesn't come up. He is irrelevant to the ideal and traditional Jewish experience.

The fact that Jews in America are surrounded by Christians doesn't make Jesus more important. It makes him more irritating.

I think it is quite silly to think there is a place on Earth a Jew can grow up and never hear about Jesus. You have to remember I am not using this thread to say Jesus should be the Christ to the Jews. I am simply pointing out that He will be relevant in their lives, either as a distraction, or as a figure to study, or in many other ways.

I understand your point though, that if Jesus was never mentioned at all it would be better for the Children of Judaism. I totally get that.

 

[Poisonshady313]

I think it is quite silly to think there is a place on Earth a Jew can grow up and never hear about Jesus.

I know those places. I've been there. Some in America, some in Israel.

In places where there isn't any interaction with Christian people, they live their whole lives without even hearing about Jesus.


You think it's silly because you don't know any better.

 

[TheKnight]

I am simply pointing out that He will be relevant in their lives, either as a distraction, or as a figure to study, or in many other ways.

Tell me something, is Rabbi Moshe Ben Maimon relevant to your life? How about Rabbi Akiva? Or Rabbi Shimon Bar Yochai? How about Rabbi Menachem Mendel Schneerson?

Are any of these men important or relevant to your life?

 

[Just_me_Mike]

The saddest thing is the fact that the Christians are dead wrong.

nice, real nice

There are those Muslims (and I do believe it is written in the Koran) who feel that Allah wants the Jews to be eliminated. Jews are open to peace with Muslims. And in many cases, the Jews do have peace with Muslims. Religiously, Jews have little to no conflict with the Muslims because Muslims are considered to be within the stipulations of the Noahide laws.

Not relevant to the thread.

Jewish scriptures better than the Jews.

Arrogance at it's best. Jew can only know best. Interesting.

Not that your comment is relevant to the thread, but an attempt to start a long winded argument. God's words are for everyone. Your blind and offensive ignorance towards all those that would know God's words is a testament to your true nature.

To make a statement that only Jews would know the true nature of the OT, is so childish. That statement would ONLY be true if God did not write the OT. If in deed Jewish men wrote on their own behalf, without God's help would it be plausible to say, Jews would know it best.

You and I both know that is not the case though, but God the spirit moved them as holy men of old wrote.

 

[Just_me_Mike]

I know those places. I've been there. Some in America, some in Israel.

In places where there isn't any interaction with Christian people, they live their whole lives without even hearing about Jesus.


You think it's silly because you don't know any better.

So are these children taught that the promise of God is the Christ to come? If so, don't the children ask questions? Are they not exposed to world religions?
I think you are full of dung to make such a statement.

Isn't that like the KKK raising little white children to hate blacks?

Your saying a Jew child is raised to not know other world religions, or maybe just Christianity. Please clarify.

 

[Just_me_Mike]

Tell me something, is Rabbi Moshe Ben Maimon relevant to your life? How about Rabbi Akiva? Or Rabbi Shimon Bar Yochai? How about Rabbi Menachem Mendel Schneerson?

Are any of these men important or relevant to your life?

Why? Have any of them claimed to be the Christ and promise from God?