Lesbianism is a moral way of life.

[Realist]

Anything where money and politics are involved can potentially be perverted. And money and politics are very involved in some issues of science when it comes to the environment, energy, and some civil/human rights issues, etc.



I trust that the scientific field of medicine, particularly the pharmaceutical companies, are genuinely devoted to searching for cures, and not just drugs that will only treat symptoms. Only someone(s) who were after money would dare wish that the cause of a sickness was never fully recovered from so that I'll have the illness longer and thus rely on buying and taking drugs longer.

I also trust that Global Warming problem does not stem from some Liberal/eco-radical groups using science to promote their agenda.

 

[HiddenDjinn]

Because having faith in something based upon empirical evidence, experimentation and repeated analysis is…a bad thing…?


Hence peer-review and different scientific teams from different countries repeating the experiments of others looking for errors.

I don’t see how science has ‘perverted’ any of those. Stem cell research increases knowledge – that’s a perversion?
How has science perverted chicken pox and mumps exactly??
HPV vaccination prevents against some viruses that do lead to cervical cancer and genital warts so what are you talking about???

Why do I get the impression that you don’t know what you are talking about?

The same reason I get the impression that you wouldn't believe me if I hit you in the face with the truth behind this.

 

[Alla Prima]

Yeah, that argument comes up when anyone expresses any faith in anything. Science is perverted on a daily basis for political ends, btw.

You can have any faith you like but when you start telling others what's moral for them according to your faith that opens your faith to serious criticism.

 

[Alla Prima]

There are homosexuals. Always have been always will be. That's a given and a fact. That the Bible forbids adult people acting out their natural sexual desires with other consenting adults clearly shows the Bible to be the perversion not the sexual acts of homosexuals.

 

[HiddenDjinn]

There are homosexuals. Always have been always will be. That's a given and a fact. That the Bible forbids adult people acting out their natural sexual desires with other consenting adults clearly shows the Bible to be the perversion not the sexual acts of homosexuals.

So, the first one to cry heretic wins? That's what the Catholics did...

 

[Katzpur]

This thread is for yosi, who asked to discuss the morality of my lesbian way of life. I assert that my way of life is moral; he denies it. yosi:
Why do you think my way of life is immoral?

Isn't that kind of the same thing as saying heterosexuality is a way of life? I don't see sexual attraction as being a lifestyle. It may be splitting hairs, but if I were physically attracted to other women, wouldn't I be a lesbian regardless of my "lifestyle"?

 

[HiddenDjinn]

Isn't that kind of the same thing as saying heterosexuality is a way of life? I don't see sexual attraction as being a lifestyle. It may be splitting hairs, but if I were physically attracted to other women, wouldn't I be a lesbian regardless of my "lifestyle"?

See, I take no issue with someone's urges, but I DO take issue on how those who claim Judaism(in any way, shape, or form) act on their urges, since each Jew is responsible for ALL Jews. One person's evil actions can cost thousands, if not millions of lives.

 

[Autodidact]

Technically, once you gave up HaShem, you gave up your place in the tribe...But I know, you'll keep lying to yourself.

Whatever, I don't really care, since I don't think there is any such thing. But when the next set of Nazis comes to gas me; I'll be sure to let them know.

 

[Autodidact]

Technically, once you gave up HaShem, you gave up your place in the tribe...But I know, you'll keep lying to yourself.

In that case, why do you keep spouting Tanakh like it should matter to me?

 

[Autodidact]

Most of the 'Western' world puts at least some faith in science.

Not those fundies like yosi though; they hate that darned science. You know, all that truth, and facts and reality and all that, just bugs them. Until of course, they need it to save their lives--or use the internet. Then they're all for it.

 

[Autodidact]

Isn't that kind of the same thing as saying heterosexuality is a way of life? I don't see sexual attraction as being a lifestyle. It may be splitting hairs, but if I were physically attracted to other women, wouldn't I be a lesbian regardless of my "lifestyle"?

I couldn't agree more. In another thread, yosi accused me of having no moral authority because of my "immoral lifestyle." Thus I invited him here to demonstrate that to be the case. So far we've learned that his only argument is that I'm violating an ancient religious text from a religion I don't subscribe to, except that I'm not, because it's not actually prohibited by that text. That's all he's got so far.

yosi: Got any other arguments? Because your first one failed spectacularly.

 

[Autodidact]

See, I take no issue with someone's urges, but I DO take issue on how those who claim Judaism(in any way, shape, or form) act on their urges, since each Jew is responsible for ALL Jews. One person's evil actions can cost thousands, if not millions of lives.

Then stop your lying and bigotry immediately. Don't you realize how dire the consequences can be?

 

[Autodidact]

You claim to be Jewish, which means, by definition, that your morality comes from the Torah

Wrong definition. I am Jewish only by birth, not belief. Unless you're claiming for some reason that it's immoral to stop believing in God?

Whether there is anything beyond Torah is a matter of opinion.

No, it's not, unless by "matter of opinion" you mean "making stuff up." Because it's not in there. Fact. And you know as well as I do, yosi, that G-d knows how to forbid things when He wants to. He tells us what not to wear, what not to eat, and whom not to have sex with. And he said nothing whatsoever about lesbianism.

My guess is that you never thought about it, or read it with that issue in mind (being male and heterosexual) and assumed it was prohibited, and are too insecure and hard-headed to admit a simple mistake.

Yeah, HaShem said no, so if you do it, you're breaking Jewish moral code.

1. No, He didn't. 2. That's all you got? An ancient purity taboo? That's your morality?!? That's sad.

O.K., so for you, trimming the edge of your beard, wearing clothing of mixed fibers, and making graven images are IMMORAL? But genocide and slavery are just fine? You call that morality?!?

Prohibited==Immoral

Got any argument to support this primitive assertion?

Any disobedience or rebellion is immoral.

Even disobedience to tyranny, and rebellion against injustice?

 

[bluZero]

Then stop your lying and bigotry immediately. Don't you realize how dire the consequences can be?

Well, as I live and breath, One learns something new everyday. Auto I didn't know until now that you were gay. It is a sin against God, but you wont worry about it because you do not believe in God any way, Right?

it is also a sin by Christian standards: (Rom 1:26) For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
:kissbette

 

[Autodidact]

Well, as I live and breath, One learns something new everyday. Auto I didn't know until now that you were gay. It is a sin against God, but you wont worry about it because you do not believe in God any way, Right?

Check my title.
Exactly.

it is also a sin by Christian standards: (Rom 1:26) For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
:kissbette

Nope. Not prohibited in the NT either. That's a story, blu, not a commandment.

Anyway, do you have any reason it's immoral?

 

[HiddenDjinn]

Then stop your lying and bigotry immediately. Don't you realize how dire the consequences can be?

1. I'm not lying.
2. If it is bigotry to put Torah and community values above 'enlightened' western values that you cling to so, find me the JDL, and I'll join.

 

[HiddenDjinn]

Wrong definition. I am Jewish only by birth, not belief. Unless you're claiming for some reason that it's immoral to stop believing in God?

Yeah, it's immoral to put aside HaShem

No, it's not, unless by "matter of opinion" you mean "making stuff up." Because it's not in there. Fact. And you know as well as I do, yosi, that G-d knows how to forbid things when He wants to. He tells us what not to wear, what not to eat, and whom not to have sex with. And he said nothing whatsoever about lesbianism.

Keep telling yourself that. The Mishnah and one of the greatest Gadolim ever to live condemned it, yet you refuse to listen.

My guess is that you never thought about it, or read it with that issue in mind (being male and heterosexual) and assumed it was prohibited, and are too insecure and hard-headed to admit a simple mistake.

I'd say the same about you. I'd guess you, through your adult life, found that you enjoy the intimate company of those of the same sex, and when someone tells you that it's wrong, they're automatically "bigots", "backwards", and, oh yeah, "superstitious".

1. No, He didn't. 2. That's all you got? An ancient purity taboo? That's your morality?!? That's sad.

What is truly sad is the light nature that you make of the basis of Western morality(even as you attack it, you follow it).

O.K., so for you, trimming the edge of your beard, wearing clothing of mixed fibers, and making graven images are IMMORAL? But genocide and slavery are just fine? You call that morality?!?

Strawman. Every shiksa and self-hating Jew I've met has made the same argument, even as, as I stated earlier, they follow Western values, derived from Torah.

Got any argument to support this primitive assertion?

Even disobedience to tyranny, and rebellion against injustice?

Another strawman. Take what I said in context sometime, you may get somewhere.

 

[Autodidact]

1. I'm not lying.

Well, let's see. First you said that my lifestyle was immoral, which it isn't. Then you accused me of offering to participate in threads and failing to do so. Despite being unable to produce a single instance of me doing that, you have failed to either withdraw the slander or apologize. Then you falsely stated that the Torah prohibits lesbianism, which it clearly doesn't.

2. If it is bigotry to put Torah and community values above 'enlightened' western values that you cling to so, find me the JDL, and I'll join.

We've already established that Torah has nothing to do with it. It's nothing but your personal prejudice. And this by a man who promotes slavery! That's the morality you're espousing. As for community values, sorry, look around. The community seems to agree with me.

 

[HiddenDjinn]

Then you falsely stated that the Torah prohibits lesbianism, which it clearly doesn't.

I even told you how it forbids your actions, but you, like any other fundamentalist anywhere, only see what you want.

As for community values, sorry, look around. The community seems to agree with me.

Now you're equating a web forum with Am Yisrael? Give me a break. While you're at it, get a reality check in.

 

[Autodidact]

Yeah, it's immoral to put aside HaShem

Got for it. Make your argument. Show why it's immoral to follow logic and evidence. You don't expect us to accept your unsupported assertions as a basis for morality, do you?

Keep telling yourself that. The Mishnah and one of the greatest Gadolim ever to live condemned it, yet you refuse to listen.

YOU said Torah prohibits it. YOU were wrong. Yet you don't have the honesty to withdraw your error. I call that immoral.

I'd say the same about you. I'd guess you, through your adult life, found that you enjoy the intimate company of those of the same sex, and when someone tells you that it's wrong, they're automatically "bigots", "backwards", and, oh yeah, "superstitious".

Only if they are. If you could just put forth some persuasive moral argument, I'd be happy to agree with you. Got one?

What is truly sad is the light nature that you make of the basis of Western morality(even as you attack it, you follow it).

No, I'm well with the basics of Western morality, like human dignity, equality, freedom.

Strawman. Every shiksa and self-hating Jew I've met has made the same argument, even as, as I stated earlier, they follow Western values, derived from Torah.

No self-hatred here. I'm proud of all of my heritage. So you're denying those things are prohibited? It's not a straw man if it's accurate.

btw, yosi, do you follow Torah law yourself? All 613 mitzvot?

Another strawman. Take what I said in context sometime, you may get somewhere.

I don't think you know what that term means. YOU asserted that disobedience and rebellion are wrong. Surely you don't believe that? Maybe you meant something else? Because of course, they're often quite right, don't you agree? Please supply any context you like. Give your full quote, if you think that helps.