Christians, Do you believe that all of the Muslims who have heard of the Bible are going to Hell?

[ayani]

then by denying the son you are denied the father? so in answer to the OP muslims are denied salvation because they have not accepted Christ.

is one neccesarily denied rest and peace in the next life if they deny the Son? no. salvation can mean "where are you going after this life" and it can also mean "how one lives in relation to God in this life".

the "complete joy" of Christ the Son can not be sought or entered into elsewhere except at and through Jesus of Nazareth.

no, i don't believe that Muslims are automatically kicked out of heaven because of their faith in Mohammad. God knows our hearts, and He knows that not everyone will "get it".

however, the inner, spiritual life of a Muslim and a born again Christian
are ultimately very different. understandings of God and one's actual nearness to Him are quite different, and a Muslim certainly does not have the joy of Christ.

 

[ayani]

ultimately, God is still the Master of the Universe whether one accepts His Son or not. He is still guiding our lives, still blessing us, still working things out. His beautiful creation is there for anyone to see and enjoy, and in Him one still lives and moves and has their being. He still knows you and keeps you no matter who you are or what you believe, and He is never far from any of us.

 

[*Paul*]

I think if you accept the bible as your rule of faith then you cannot disagree with what it says, what does this statement by John the Baptist mean to you?
St. John 3:35-36 The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand. He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

Do muslims even believe that there is a Son of God?

Do we dare make God a liar by not believing the witness He has given us of His Son? Muslims do.
1st John 5:9-10 If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son. He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.

Without the gospel men are lost:
2nd Corinthians 4:3-4 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:
In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

Their only hope is to hear it and believe:
Epistle to Romans 10:13-15 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!

So then let us spread the gospel with urgency:
St. Mark 16:15-16 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned

Matthew 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

Before it is too late for them:
2nd Thessalonians 1:7-9 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

 

[kai]

ultimately, God is still the Master of the Universe whether one accepts His Son or not. He is still guiding our lives, still blessing us, still working things out. His beautiful creation is there for anyone to see and enjoy, and in Him one still lives and moves and has their being. He still knows you and keeps you no matter who you are or what you believe, and He is never far from any of us.

you have a commendable view on things , the thing is you may just be making the Passion of Christ irrelevant.

 

[Trey of Diamonds]

in light of these manifold differences, logically and by faith and grace, i have come to conclude that they can not be the same god.

Now this is very interesting. We all know that the Abrahamic God changed in the New Testament. He went from being an angry violent God to one that was forgiving and kind. But I have always been taught that was his choice and he sent Jesus to explain the choice to humanity. I have never heard a Christian claim that the God of Jesus was different than the God of Abraham.

Now plenty of Christians believe that Mohammad was selling paganism in the form of Allah but I don't listen to them because the people who say that tend to be a bit fanatical.

Anyway, thanks for the thoughts, they are very interesting indeed.

 

[Father Heathen]

Do we dare make God a liar

Believing the bible lies isn't the same thing as believing God lies. Anyone can put words in God's mouth. Anyone can write a "holy book" or come up with a religion. Why you do think there are countless thousands of them? Now I'm sure you'll agree everything that they've all claimed of, said about and attributed to god can't all be "The Truth", right? Are you making a liar of God when you reject Hinduism or the Vedas? No? So it's not God who is the liar, but mere mortal men who've tried to use god as a sock puppet and tried to portray god in their own image. So it's the self-appointed middlemen and interpreters who are the liars. And revering their words (i.e. The Bible) as if God is bound by something mere mortal men spoke or wrote is a blasphemous idolatry.

 

[kai]

Now this is very interesting. We all know that the Abrahamic God changed in the New Testament. He went from being an angry violent God to one that was forgiving and kind. But I have always been taught that was his choice and he sent Jesus to explain the choice to humanity. I have never heard a Christian claim that the God of Jesus was different than the God of Abraham.

Now plenty of Christians believe that Mohammad was selling paganism in the form of Allah but I don't listen to them because the people who say that tend to be a bit fanatical.

Anyway, thanks for the thoughts, they are very interesting indeed.

i find it quite startling that Christians will say automatically "its the same God" without even stopping to look a little more deeply into what they are saying,

see here

http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/religious-debates/72927-there-god-there-god.html

 

[emiliano]

We are saved by Grace though faith. This happens when God in His mercy wills it so. It is God that gives us the gift of faith, with this He assist/bless us with the understanding required to be drawn to the saviour. The truth is that God is not the saviour of all of those that ever lived. The promise of the Kingdom is not for all. Exo 33:19 And He said, I will make all My goodness pass before you, and I will proclaim the name of Jehovah before you. And I will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and will have mercy on whom I will have mercy.
The Apostle Paul explains it in his Epistle to the Romans (Rom9:14-22)

 

[maeder]

i dont think so bcoz hearing what's in the bible doesn't mean that they believe in the things written in the bible...We Christians are very much aware that the Muslims have a strong belief in the things taught in their religion

 

[*Paul*]

Believing the bible lies isn't the same thing as believing God lies. Anyone can put words in God's mouth. Anyone can write a "holy book" or come up with a religion. Why you do think there are countless thousands of them? Now I'm sure you'll agree everything that they've all claimed of, said about and attributed to god can't all be "The Truth", right? Are you making a liar of God when you reject Hinduism or the Vedas? No? So it's not God who is the liar, but mere mortal men who've tried to use god as a sock puppet and tried to portray god in their own image. So it's the self-appointed middlemen and interpreters who are the liars. And revering their words (i.e. The Bible) as if God is bound by something mere mortal men spoke or wrote is a blasphemous idolatry.

What I wrote was addressed to those who profess Christianity, which is what I understood this thread to be about. The question is addressed to Christians.

I know full well that atheists don't shrink at the idea of calling any claims to godhood lies for you have no fear of God in you.

 

[logician]

ultimately, God is still the Master of the Universe whether one accepts His Son or not. He is still guiding our lives, still blessing us, still working things out. His beautiful creation is there for anyone to see and enjoy, and in Him one still lives and moves and has their being. He still knows you and keeps you no matter who you are or what you believe, and He is never far from any of us.

Or not, if you don't believe in him.

 

[emiliano]

Or not, if you don't believe in him.

But you will find that out, it's only a matter of time, may He in His great mercy give you another chance, but I don't fancy your chances,

 

[kai]

But you will find that out, it's only a matter of time, may He in His great mercy give you another chance, but I don't fancy your chances,

and if Allah is real ,you will find out emiliano ,its only a matter of time, may he in his great mercy give you another chance, but i dont fancy your chances.

 

[ayani]

Now this is very interesting. I have never heard a Christian claim that the God of Jesus was different than the God of Abraham.

Trey ~

i wasn't arguing that the God of Abraham and Jesus' Abba are distinct- rather that Allah and Yahweh are not the same.

there is One God described in the Bible- i know some believe there are "two gods" in there, but i don't. God is still a God of both just wrath and recoiling love, within both testaments. Jesus speaks often of love and mercy, and often of the wrath / justice of His Father. and i would argue that no one would know God better than His unique Son, than One Who is ultimately One with the Father.

 

[DarkSun]

Christians, Do you believe that all of the Muslims who have heard of the Bible are going to Hell?

Even though if you (or anyone for that matter) were in their shoes, you would also be a Muslim. Are they simply doomed from birth?

There's a good quote that sums up my view on this matter:

"It's not who you are underneath, but what you do that defines you." ~ Batman Begins.

No, I sincerely doubt that any good person would be sent to Hell purely because they are not a devout Christian. Since people have no control over where they are born nor what they've come to believe, I think it more likely that we are judged on what we do, not what we believe.

There are good and bad people everywhere, and frankly, this is true irrespective of religion. Some of the best people I know are non-theists, and I've met some theists who have made fairly poor choices in their time. So should the non-theist who is a wonderful person be condemned to Hell leaving the theist to enjoy heaven even though he was terrible? Faith in Christ does not necessarily guarantee salvation, but faith in what Christ stands for: compassion, empathy, humility and mercy; these attributes are worth more than any material item you could ever wish for and more.

 

[Father Heathen]

But you will find that out, it's only a matter of time, may He in His great mercy give you another chance, but I don't fancy your chances,

Hell is nothing more than a sadomasochistic revenge fantasy in the minds of men.

 

[DarkSun]

What I wrote was addressed to those who profess Christianity, which is what I understood this thread to be about. The question is addressed to Christians.

I know full well that atheists don't shrink at the idea of calling any claims to godhood lies for you have no fear of God in you.

So God is an entity that should be feared? No, that doesn't sound right to me.

And believe it or not, everyone's entitled to speak their mind on a public forum. Are you going against his freedom of choice?

 

[DarkSun]

Hell is nothing more than a sadomasochistic revenge fantasy in the minds of men.

Who's to say that Hell isn't merely being returned to earth once you've glimpsed what you've missed out on? Does the Bible even specify what Hell looks like? Has anyone been there, come back and told us?

Hell is a place of dissatisfaction. Yeshua described it as a fire; a fiery furnace. It may be a literal fire that creates a physical sensation of burning or just an overwhelming yearning for God, for love, for joy, for peace, for life that will never be. (Matthew 5:22; Matt 13:42 and 50; Matt 18:8-9; Matt 25:41; Mark 9:43, 47-48) .

(source: [internet] available from: "What and Where is Hell?" )

That being said, I believe that people will be judged based on what they do, not on what they believe themselves. Since most religions have almost universal beliefs on what is morally right - then all it should take is a morally upstanding person to gain salvation.

 

[emiliano]

and if Allah is real ,you will find out emiliano ,its only a matter of time, may he in his great mercy give you another chance, but i dont fancy your chances.

I have no problem with that, as far as know Allah is merciful, so my chance are pretty good, unbeliever/atheist? What do you think?

 

[kai]

I have no problem with that, as far as know Allah is merciful, so my chance are pretty good, unbeliever/atheist? What do you think?

oh i think if he exists then Christians go to hell but you can eventually get out if you are trully good, me i will take my chances and let him be my judge ,what else can i do at least i havent worshipped someone else , thats a big no no to Gods.