for Jordan St. Francis: Gay adoption is good for children.

[Autodidact]

In a thread on gay marriage, Jordan St. Francis and I found ourselves debating the question of whether adoption by gay and lesbian parents is good or bad for children. This thread is to pursue that discussion, or a related one, whether gay parenting is a good or bad thing.

 

[Storm]

No surprise here, but I think it's a good thing. Possibly even better than straight parenting, since every child is a wanted child.

:rainbow1:

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

No surprise here, but I think it's a good thing. Possibly even better than straight parenting, since every child is a wanted child.

If you're referring to unplanned pregnancy then I can see your point, but I've never heard of an unwanted adoption... unless there's some rash of people leaving babies on the doorsteps of straight couples that I'm unaware of.

Back to the OP: I think that whether a particular form of parenting is a good or bad thing depends on factors like love and skills, not sexual orientation.

 

[Storm]

Yes, I was referring to unplanned pregnancy, since Auto expanded the issue to parenting in general.

 

[Ringer]

Hopefully the debate will provide something more substantial than one person saying that it's immoral and leads to social and psychological damage to the child while the other is asking for proof to substantiate that claim. Hopefully this saves us a bit of time so we can bring some good arguments on the table. My opinion is that I'd rather see a child in a loving home than no home at all.

 

[Storm]

Exactly, Ringer. Also, it's been my experience that queers are willing to adopt the kids no one else wants - older kids, mostly. My experience might be skewed, but there it is.

 

[Autodidact]

I'll start with some factual background. Right now, as I type, there are thousands of children in my country living in foster care and group homes, children who need, want and deserve a loving family to care for them. Unfortunately, there are not enough families for all the kids that need them. So when you oppose gay adoption, you are saying that it is better for those children to grow up without someone to love and care for them, than to be adopted by lesbian or gay parents.

And, of course, every one of those children was born to heterosexual parents.

 

[Ringer]

I'll start with some factual background. Right now, as I type, there are thousands of children in my country living in foster care and group homes, children who need, want and deserve a loving family to care for them. Unfortunately, there are not enough families for all the kids that need them. So when you oppose gay adoption, you are saying that it is better for those children to grow up without someone to love and care for them, than to be adopted by lesbian or gay parents.

And, of course, every one of those children was born to heterosexual parents.

I'll try to get some questions going...

Has there been extensive psychological studies that show if there is a difference between children raised in heterosexual households and those raise in a household with gay or lesbian parents? Do you think we as a society are prepared to undeniably state that there are no implications for a child raised in a non-traditional household or do you think it's possible that further studies are needed before anything is conclusive? Do you know where other countries stand on the issue? I think it goes without saying but lets assume that for my questions we also assume that both heterosexual and homosexual parents are equally capable of parenting and it's the non-tangibles that may differ between the couples. I'm not sure that's very clear but if you don't know what I'm getting at I'll try to clarify if needed.

 

[Quiddity]

I'll try to get some questions going...

Has there been extensive psychological studies that show if there is a difference between children raised in heterosexual households and those raise in a household with gay or lesbian parents? Do you think we as a society are prepared to undeniably state that there are no implications for a child raised in a non-traditional household or do you think it's possible that further studies are needed before anything is conclusive? Do you know where other countries stand on the issue? I think it goes without saying but lets assume that for my questions we also assume that both heterosexual and homosexual parents are equally capable of parenting and it's the non-tangibles that may differ between the couples. I'm not sure that's very clear but if you don't know what I'm getting at I'll try to clarify if needed.

There are some that clearly indicate two parents are better then one. Whether one interprets that data as merely a numbers game (which, if you remember all a child needs is love, whether it be one parent or two...right?) or if it has something to do with a child having a mommy and daddy. Well, at the very least one can safely conclude that "all you need is love" is not as simple as showering someone with hugs and pink bunnies.

 

[Autodidact]

I'll try to get some questions going...

Has there been extensive psychological studies that show if there is a difference between children raised in heterosexual households and those raise in a household with gay or lesbian parents?

Yes.

Do you think we as a society are prepared to undeniably state that there are no implications for a child raised in a non-traditional household or do you think it's possible that further studies are needed before anything is conclusive?

Neither. There has been sufficient reserachon which to act. Are you familiar with the extensive research in this area? Would you like links?

Do you know where other countries stand on the issue?

Adoption by same-sex couples is legal in Guam, Andorra, Belgium, Iceland,[1] the Netherlands, Norway[2], Sweden, South Africa, Spain, the United Kingdom, some parts of Australia, Canada and some parts of the United States.

 

[Autodidact]

There are some that clearly indicate two parents are better then one.

Yes, that's true, but completely irrelevant. Why even mention it? [/quote]Whether one interprets that data as merely a numbers game (which, if you remember all a child needs is love, whether it be one parent or two...right?) or if it has something to do with a child having a mommy and daddy. Well, at the very least one can safely conclude that "all you need is love" is not as simple as showering someone with hugs and pink bunnies. [/quote] Here's an idea, how about if we look at the studies that compare heterosexual parents to homosexual parents. Just a suggestion.

 

[Autodidact]

Jordan?

 

[Elessar]

Better loving families and homes than none. That's my general opinion. As long as there's at least some certainty that these foster kids are being placed in loving, happy, and reasonably stable homes, then I have no problem. Especially since, in my experience, homosexual couples tend to take the older and interracial children that other families tend not to take. So, homosexual adoption is okay, in my book.

 

[Makaveli]

Living with a loving gay person or couple is far superior than living in a foster home or in an orphanage where there is no love.

All beings just want to be loved and be happy, and if an adoptive gay couple provides that they're really no different than an adoptive straight couple.

 

[Quiddity]

Yes, that's true, but completely irrelevant. Why even mention it?

I guess you missed it. The argument goes that "all you need is love". Certainly a single female/male is able to produce love right?

Get it?

Here's an idea, how about if we look at the studies that compare heterosexual parents to homosexual parents. Just a suggestion.

From where? The APA? No thanks...

Really, there isn't enough homosexual families to make any conclusion either way so I wouldn't personally bet a dollar on it.

 

[Elessar]

From where? The APA? No thanks...

Which APA do you so disdainfully refer to? The American Poultry Association? The American Philosophical Association? Anti-Pedophile Activism? Anglican Province of America?

I assume you mean one of these three organizations, but which, hmm?

American Psychological Association
American Psychiatric Association
American Psychoanalytic Association

 

[Quiddity]

Which APA do you so disdainfully refer to? The American Poultry Association? The American Philosophical Association? Anti-Pedophile Activism? Anglican Province of America?

I assume you mean one of these three organizations, but which, hmm?

American Psychological Association
American Psychiatric Association
American Psychoanalytic Association

The first.

 

[Elessar]

The first.

And, why, exactly, is this organization not trustworthy, in your opinion?

 

[Autodidact]

I guess you missed it. The argument goes that "all you need is love". Certainly a single female/male is able to produce love right?

Get it?

I don't know who makes that argument. I think it's important to look at the facts. Research indicates that two parents are better than one, and it makes little or no difference whether the two parents are the same gender or different.

From where? The APA? No thanks...

From peer-reviewed, scientific journals.

Really, there isn't enough homosexual families to make any conclusion either way so I wouldn't personally bet a dollar on it.

Really? How many are there? How many of them have been studied? How big were the sample sizes? How well-controlled. Since you are rejecting the research, I assume that you have some concrete reason. You wouldn't reject it without first reading or at least familiarizing yourself with it, right?

Or are you going by your personal experience? How many gay or lesbian families do you know?

 

[Jordan St. Francis]

Hey Autodictat, did you see I started a thread concerning this last week? The last few days were extremely busy schoolwise, but I am working on responses currently.