Question for those who believe homosexuality is immoral.

[Tau]

FOUL!

You support a ban of same sex marriage?
If so, you make yourself a liar with the above quoted statement.

Consistency was never the strong point of the irrational.

 

[McBell]

Consistency was never the strong point of the irrational.

Agreed.
But I feel one must point out the inconsistencies or one is also being irrational.

 

[Tau]

Agreed.
But I feel one must point out the inconsistencies or one is also being irrational.

Certainly, allowing irrationality to go unchallenged would be irrational

 

[madhatter85]

A very poor argument, you have no idea of the suffering abusers put children through obviously.
Pedophiles are predators by definition, gays are not, big difference.

How is there a difference? Pedophiles aren't always predators, there are hetrosexual predators as well as homosexual and pedophile predators.

 

[madhatter85]

FOUL!

You support a ban of same sex marriage?
If so, you make yourself a liar with the above quoted statement.

FOUL! yourself, It's not inconsistency, youa re merely trying to twist words around to mean something different than the context used.

I don't concern myself with anyone's sex like, Hetrosexual or homosexual. There is no discrimination there at all.

as far as marriage is concerned, that should always be defined as between 1 man and 1 woman.

people don't HAVE to be married to have Sex, we are not tellign you who you can or cannot love or live with. we are only telling you that you cannot have the benefits or title of "married".

Thanks for playing.

 

[McBell]

FOUL! yourself, It's not inconsistency, youa re merely trying to twist words around to mean something different than the context used.

I don't concern myself with anyone's sex like, Hetrosexual or homosexual. There is no discrimination there at all.

as far as marriage is concerned, that should always be defined as between 1 man and 1 woman.

people don't HAVE to be married to have Sex, we are not tellign you who you can or cannot love or live with. we are only telling you that you cannot have the benefits or title of "married".

Thanks for playing.

Nice try, but we are not playing by your rules.
See, this is not the LDS Sanctuary.
Though it seems that even in there you did not fair very well.

Funny how you twist the facts around to support your fanaticism in the same post you whine about others twisting words.
Can we say hypocrite?

The definition has only recently been defined as one man one women.
Nice try though.

Can you present even one legitimate legal reason to ban same sex marriage?
Because until such time as one can present a legitimate legal reason to ban same sex marriage, then same sex marriage cannot legally be banned.

Interesting how facts and truth mean nothing to you.

 

[Watchmen]

people don't HAVE to be married to have Sex, we are not tellign you who you can or cannot love or live with. we are only telling you that you cannot have the benefits or title of "married". [\quote]

and people don't HAVE to have a specific religious belief to get married. hell, atheists get married every day. where does that fit in your closed world? the point is, civil marriage has nothing to do with religious belief so it is ridiculous to attempt to ban same-sex marriage based on religious belief.

 

[Sententia]

people don't HAVE to be married to have Sex, we are not tellign you who you can or cannot love or live with. we are only telling you that you cannot have the benefits or title of "married".

and people don't HAVE to have a specific religious belief to get married. hell, atheists get married every day. where does that fit in your closed world? the point is, civil marriage has nothing to do with religious belief so it is ridiculous to attempt to ban same-sex marriage based on religious belief.

Frubals if it would let me.

 

[Sunstone]

...we are not tellign you who you can or cannot love or live with. we are only telling you that you cannot have the benefits or title of "married".

Is your god really that petty and mean spirited?

 

[Autodidact]

Would you disown or beat or stop loving your child if s/he did something that you consider immoral and s/he refused to listen to your reasoning on why it is immoral? If you can only think of something illegal, that's fine. How would you react?

You mean like convert to Mormonism? That would be rough.

 

[Magic Man]

Did i label sex as sinful? no. Matter-in-fact it is far from sinful as long as it is done between 1 male and 1 female lawfully wedded as husband and wife.

Right. And that is the part we have a problem with. What exactly makes sex purely for pleasure acceptable once you have committed to one person for the rest of your life, and not when you haven't?

There are alot of people posting in this thread that take sex for granted and believe it is okay to do whatever they want with it. This is erronius. As with anything....prudence, respect, and responsibility are key.

I don't know what you mean by taking sex for granted, so I'll leave that part. I haven't seen one person here say that we should do whatever we want with sex.

How about this? go ahead and make same-sex marriagle legal, and in that same fell swoop make prostitution, pedophilia, beastiality, and inbreeding legal, after all...... it's just sex! it's harmelss! everyone should be free to express thier sexual desires! pedophiles can't help it either, "They're born that way"

Prostitution is a whole other debate. As to the rest, are you seriously using this argument? You do understand the difference, right? You understand the difference between two consenting adults (no matter which gender they are) having sex and one consenting adult having sex with another being that cannot legally give consent, right? And, last I checked, inbreeding wasn't illegal, as long as they are both consenting adults. If it is illegal, it's because of testing that shows scientifically that inbreeding leads to deformities in children of those couples.

Please don't ever use this argument again. It's a cheap, ridiculous appeal to emotion that is completely irrational and illogical. You have your beliefs, but don't base them on such nonsense.

Weither or not homosexuality is a choice or "born that way" to us LDS it's a problem that some may need help to resolve.

It may be a natural defect due to imperfection of the human genome. just as a parasitic twin or a cleft pallette is a genetic defect. It's doesn't make it any more "normal", and we have a way to fix those genetic problems

So, we have to fix abnormalities, even if they aren't deficiencies? When someone has a particularly strong throwing arm, what should we do? Should we weaken that arm because it's an abnormality? Not every abnormality is bad. In fact, they are how organisms adapt to situations. That's proven with the research that supports evolution.

 

[Magic Man]

I can see what you're saying. I believe we teach our kids correct principles, and that they are loved no matter what. Then let them govern themselves. Truth is truth, regardless of the pain it causes. If exposure to truth leads to destructive possibilities, such as suicide, we'd do all we could to help. But we can't teach anything other than truth to our children. The truth I would teach to my child is that all blessings for the righteous are available to those with same-sex attraction. All blessings. They may not come in this life, but they will come. There is hope. God loves them. God loves all of us. He would not deny anyone anything for something they cannot help as long as they are doing their best. He has also promised us no trial larger than we can handle.

Of course your view of truth may be different than mine, but I don't think that is the point here. Parents have to teach their children according to their deepest, most heart-felt beliefs. And always love them.

Yes, you have to teach them according to your version of truth. BUT you can do that while being open-minded. You can teach them that it might not be the only way. You can teach them that, in the end, they have to find their own way. You're really only there for guidance. You can teach them that you believe that homosexuality is bad, and why, but tell them that it is ultimately their decision, and you'll support whatever decision they make. That's what love is.

 

[Magic Man]

A very poor argument, you have no idea of the suffering abusers put children through obviously.
Pedophiles are predators by definition, gays are not, big difference.

That's not to mention the fact that children are impressionable, and for that reason are viewed as unable to make such decisions for themselves. It is the normal view that when they turn a certain age, usually between 15 and 18, that they have learned enough to make clear and knowledgeable decisions.

Seriously, maybe you should think about these arguments a little more before using them, madhatter.

 

[madhatter85]

That's proven with the research that supports evolution.

Evolution? so you're saying that homosexuals are evolved that way? that's the silliest thing ever.

Homosexuality does not propogate the species. evolution is a natural change to the surrounding enviroment, not an ending of the species.

lol.:clap

 

[Magic Man]

people don't HAVE to be married to have Sex, we are not tellign you who you can or cannot love or live with. we are only telling you that you cannot have the benefits or title of "married".

and people don't HAVE to have a specific religious belief to get married. hell, atheists get married every day. where does that fit in your closed world? the point is, civil marriage has nothing to do with religious belief so it is ridiculous to attempt to ban same-sex marriage based on religious belief.

You really are my favorite new member. It is very refreshing to hear this from a Mormon. You are a great embassador for your faith, at least as far as I've seen so far.

 

[Magic Man]

Evolution? so you're saying that homosexuals are evolved that way? that's the silliest thing ever.

Homosexuality does not propogate the species. evolution is a natural change to the surrounding enviroment, not an ending of the species.

lol.:clap

It was you before who was talking about others twisting your words, wasn't it? For one, it could be because we've gotten too big for our britches. The destruction we've caused to the planet as we have become overpopulated is growing. This might be the way to help keep us in check. Who knows? With most organisms, there is always something that keeps them in check in nature. We as humans have been able to outsmart most of that stuff, and so maybe this is a very agreeable way to do that.

That's beside the point, though. The point I was making (which you either missed or ignored on purpose) was that all abnormalities are not inherently bad. Some turn out to be good for all of us. You may not see that in homosexuality, but you cannot show me a single way it is bad for us here. You can point to the afterlife and what will happen then, but there is nothing in the here and now that makes it harmful to anyone. If they are not harmful to us in this world, then there is no reason to fix them.

 

[McBell]

Evolution? so you're saying that homosexuals are evolved that way? that's the silliest thing ever.

Homosexuality does not propogate the species. evolution is a natural change to the surrounding enviroment, not an ending of the species.

lol.:clap

Your lack of comprehension is staggering.
Though not the least bit surprising.

 

[madhatter85]

Nice try, but we are not playing by your rules.
See, this is not the LDS Sanctuary.
Though it seems that even in there you did not fair very well.

I do just fine thanks, I don't care if you play by my rules or not. i have my views and i posted why i feel that way. It's perfectly logical to me.

Funny how you twist the facts around to support your fanaticism in the same post you whine about others twisting words.
Can we say hypocrite?

nah, i've always said the same thing all the time. never varied, not a hypocrite, thanks.

The definition has only recently been defined as one man one women.
Nice try though.

oh, ok.... lol... if the first humans were gay you would not be here. :thud:

Can you present even one legitimate legal reason to ban same sex marriage?
Because until such time as one can present a legitimate legal reason to ban same sex marriage, then same sex marriage cannot legally be banned.

Marriage originally was never a legal matter in the first place, it was a religious matter. it was when this country was founded by people with religious influences who decided to make marriage a legal thing and make a separation of church and state.

you cannot tell me for one moment that the founding fathers had absolutely no religious influence. look at the laws in force at the time (and even now but hardly ever enforced) regarding all sorts of "sinful" activities. that is what this nation was founded on. Marriage has always been defined as husband and wife, mother and father. only RECENTLY have people been heard enough to try to convice people that homosexuality is "normal" and thier demand for the same rights as married couple to be heard.

Interesting how facts and truth mean nothing to you.

on the contrary, all i am ever interested in is facts and truth

The plumbing is designed to work one way. babies come out after they are made by sperm and eggs. (hmmmm ....sounds like an omlette:cover there is no other way around it.
The family unit needs to be protected and classified before people destory it. the Family unit is the basic fundamental unit of any society.

Homosexuality is destructive to the propogation of any species.

 

[madhatter85]

It was you before who was talking about others twisting your words, wasn't it? For one, it could be because we've gotten too big for our britches. The destruction we've caused to the planet as we have become overpopulated is growing. This might be the way to help keep us in check. Who knows? With most organisms, there is always something that keeps them in check in nature. We as humans have been able to outsmart most of that stuff, and so maybe this is a very agreeable way to do that.

That's beside the point, though. The point I was making (which you either missed or ignored on purpose) was that all abnormalities are not inherently bad. Some turn out to be good for all of us. You may not see that in homosexuality, but you cannot show me a single way it is bad for us here. You can point to the afterlife and what will happen then, but there is nothing in the here and now that makes it harmful to anyone. If they are not harmful to us in this world, then there is no reason to fix them.

lmao, as you say, homosexuality has been around for ages, even before the "overpopulation" which you use as a defense. what does overpopulation have to do with it when half the world was undiscovered and there was plenty of land to go around?

fact is it''s a perversion just like any other sexually defective person. We aren't telling you that you can't love somebody, we aren't tellign you how to have a sex-life. We're telling you that marriage is a Man and a Woman, and that's it.

 

[madhatter85]

Your lack of comprehension is staggering.
Though not the least bit surprising.

please, elaborate?