Quran and Science : Just wanted some comments

[MFaraz_Hayat]

Well, I am going to present some verses. I am not claiming anything, atleast not directly for I am honest enough to say that most of them are not results of my private research.Personally, I found the verses and explanations provided convincing ( though u may call my judgment biased, seeing that I am a muslim). Therefore, I wanted non-muslim comments on these verses.
Please tell that why u disagree with the provided explanation.
Please tell ( if u think that I am interpreting the verses wrongly ) what u think can be the obvious interpretation) .
Plz don't criticize the thread, if u don't like it, don't make the effort to post (no offence).

***MOD EDIT***

See Embryology in the Noble Quran. starting with FOETUS PROTECTED BY THREE VEILS OF DARKNESS

 

[Don Penguinoini]

Impressive. But whatever happend to " the Quran is not meant to be used as a textbook"

 

[McBell]

Is this going to be yet another "forer effect" thread?

 

[Don Penguinoini]

If i could find all hte science in the vedas and make it a thread, it would be about....2900000 pages lonng (OP)

 

[MFaraz_Hayat]

If i could find all hte science in the vedas and make it a thread, it would be about....2900000 pages lonng (OP)

No need to find all the scientific stuff, my friend. I too posted few of the many verses and so can you.

 

[MFaraz_Hayat]

Impressive. But whatever happend to " the Quran is not meant to be used as a textbook"

Well, we are not using it as a text book here. The verses are showing that recent scientific discoveries were already mentioned in the Quran. By, textbook I meant that it is not like a notebook where facts would be written in bullet form etc. It is in poetic form, and shows glory of God.

 

[MFaraz_Hayat]

Is this going to be yet another "forer effect" thread?

I just want ur comment on the provided verses and their explanation. And, if u think they are wrong: Then Why? And if verses are wrongly interpreted then what should be the correct interpretation?

 

[McBell]

It is merely another "forer effect" thread.

At no time does an embryo become a "clot of congealed blood"
And I am not going to even bother with yet another thread that is nothing more than an attempt at turning flowery language into scientific meaning.

 

[MFaraz_Hayat]

It is merely another "forer effect" thread.

At no time does an embryo become a "clot of congealed blood"
And I am not going to even bother with yet another thread that is nothing more than an attempt at turning flowery language into scientific meaning.

That is why in beginning only I wrote if U don't like such threads, DON't Post . It would have saved my time too. What was the need of sarcasm?
And in case you haven't noticed: these verses were verified by two Non-Muslims, who are much more accomplished at the matter than you.

 

[MFaraz_Hayat]

And I am not going to even bother with yet another thread that is nothing more than an attempt at turning flowery language into scientific meaning.

Well, about the flowery language part:
"then We made out of that
lump bones and clothed
the bones with flesh" (part of the verse I quoted).

Please tell how I am trying to fit in words, when I am saying that this verse clearly says: Embryo (called lump as indicated in previous part of verse) grows boned and then bones are covered with muscles.

 

[Peace4all]

It is merely another "forer effect" thread.

At no time does an embryo become a "clot of congealed blood"
And I am not going to even bother with yet another thread that is nothing more than an attempt at turning flowery language into scientific meaning.

The Quran was reveled to a bunch of illiterate Arabs in the early 6th century. Using their simple vocabulary there was really no world for 'embryo'. True, some of these scientific miracles are rather vague but how do you explain:

"We have created the mountains as studs" Surat Amma
This literary states that we have created the mountain as studs. This is a incontrovertible scientific fact that mountains serve as studs for scientific for tectonic plates. This fact was scientifically discovered only in the Mid 19th century. How do you explain this?

 

[McBell]

That is why in beginning only I wrote if U don't like such threads, DON't Post . It would have saved my time too. What was the need of sarcasm?
And in case you haven't noticed: these verses were verified by two Non-Muslims, who are much more accomplished at the matter than you.

What sarcasm?
I am being serious.
There is not a single time in its development that an embryo becomes a "clot of congealed blood"

therefore the verse is in error.

Well, about the flowery language part:
"then We made out of that
lump bones and clothed
the bones with flesh" (part of the verse I quoted).

Please tell how I am trying to fit in words, when I am saying that this verse clearly says: Embryo (called lump as indicated in previous part of verse) grows boned and then bones are covered with muscles.

Nice try.
However since that was not the part I am talking about, how about you stick tot the topic at hand?

Please show me a legitimate source that states that an embryo turns into "a clot of congealed blood"

Please note that I am talking about the part of the verse you presented in the OP that states:

then We made the sperm
into a clot of congealed blood;
​

 

[McBell]

The Quran was reveled to a bunch of illiterate Arabs in the early 6th century. Using their simple vocabulary there was really no world for 'embryo'. True, some of these scientific miracles are rather vague but how do you explain:

"We have created the mountains as studs" Surat Amma
This literary states that we have created the mountain as studs. This is a incontrovertible scientific fact that mountains serve as studs for scientific for tectonic plates. This fact was scientifically discovered only in the Mid 19th century. How do you explain this?

Forer Effect.

 

[MFaraz_Hayat]

What sarcasm?
I am being serious.
There is not a single time in its development that an embryo becomes a "clot of congealed blood"

therefore the verse is in error.


Nice try.
However since that was not the part I am talking about, how about you stick tot the topic at hand?

Please show me a legitimate source that states that an embryo turns into "a clot of congealed blood"

Please note that I am talking about the part of the verse you presented in the OP that states:

then We made the sperm
into a clot of congealed blood;
​

Clot of congealed blood in appearance not function. If u notice the entire verse, it is telling us the appearance of embryo in various stages. Clot of congealed blood refers to the appearance of embryo (very early stage) when it is surrounded by narrow capillaries.

 

[Peace4all]

Forer Effect.

Im afraid "Forer Effect" by itself doesn't explain anything. Please go in deeper detail of what you mean by 'Forer Effect'

 

[McBell]

Clot of congealed blood in appearance not function. If u notice the entire verse, it is telling us the appearance of embryo in various stages. Clot of congealed blood refers to the appearance of embryo (very early stage) when it is surrounded by narrow capillaries.

If you want to believe that it is speaking accurately of the embryo then feel free to do so.
I do not believe that it is.

 

[McBell]

Im afraid "Forer Effect" by itself doesn't explain anything. Please go in deeper detail of what you mean by 'Forer Effect'

Forer effect

Forer effect - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Forer Effect

Vagueness, The Forer Effect, & Confirmation Bias

http://ecow.engr.wisc.edu/cgi-bin/get/epd/155/zwickel/informatio/forer_effect.pdf

 

[Peace4all]

your articles fail to explain how such a definite statement like "We have created the mountains as studs" fall under the "Forer Effect". I know what the definition of "Forer Effect means but does the statement above fall under it?

 

[MFaraz_Hayat]

If you want to believe that it is speaking accurately of the embryo then feel free to do so.
I do not believe that it is.

Ok, for sake of argument even I am agreeing that it is wrong.
Now Standard Rules when studying a religious text tell us (which any actual student of comparative religion can confirm) that in a scripture: If a single word has many meanings then the most appropriate one is chosen and rest are discarded and not considered. This does not mean that the verse is wrong.
Similarly, if u want to disagree with "clot of blood" statement, fine do so. But, even u should not consider the verse wrong as word Alaqah has three meanings: something that clings, leech like substance and congealed clot of blood.
If we omit congealed clot of blood, still 2 definitions that are accurate remain. Therefore, the verse is still correct.
PS i will return in 2 hours.

 

[McBell]

your articles fail to explain how such a definite statement like "We have created the mountains as studs" fall under the "Forer Effect". I know what the definition of "Forer Effect means but does the statement above fall under it?

First off, I need to know where this statement is from. so that I may check upon its context.
Then I needs know what other meanings this statement was 'clearly' referring to before it was 'clearly' referring to "serve as studs for scientific for tectonic plates"
Then you will needs explain what you are actually talking about when you use the term: "serve as studs for scientific for tectonic plates" because as written it makes no sense.