Why should a Christian even look into Islam as a Possible true Faith?

[2ndpillar]

Sorry don’t get your argument?
Revelation that was giving to Jesus. For us is the injeel.

The "injeel", the gospel of Yeshua (Issa), is the kingdom of heaven, as put forth in Matthew 13. The parable of the kingdom contains opposing messages, one of the "devil" and one of the "son of man" (Yeshua). The "message" of the "devil", the "enemy", is propagated by the "false prophets" of Matthew 7:12-15, which results in the destruction of the "many", per Matthew 7:12. The "tare seed" "message" of the "devil", propagated by the "false prophets", will according to Yeshua (Issa), stay until the "end of the age" (Mt 13:30).

 

[2ndpillar]

Refute Mohammed and I will be subject by death?

Islam isn't consistent in their judgments. You have the traditions of the Shia, which differs from that of the Sunni. Here is one version:

2. Punishment for Apostasy in Tradition

In traditional Islamic jurisprudence, apostasy is called “irtidad (riddad)”, and apostate is called “murtad”. In tradition, there is a consensus that apostates must be killed. Hanafis exempt apostate women from this.[7] Apostates must be offered with repentance before being killed. This is a recommended act (mustahab) according to Hanafis, and nearly obligatory- basing on hadiths (wajib) according to other sects.[8] According to the tradition; if an apostate dies, is killed or leaves the country, he loses all his properties. His property is taken as spoils for the treasury after his debts are paid.[9] According to Abu Hanifah what he earned as a Muslim is inherited to the legal inheritors. According to four Imams, his property is inherited to legal inheritors in any case. The wedding of the apostate is null and void automatically. According to Shafis, the wife of the apostate must wait during the waiting period (iddah).
Tradition tries to base the killing of apostates on Qur’an, on the Example (Sunnah) of Messenger Mohammad, and on the consensus of the scholars. Let’s check this false evidence:

 

[MayPeaceBeUpOnYou]

The "injeel", the gospel of Yeshua (Issa), is the kingdom of heaven, as put forth in Matthew 13. The parable of the kingdom contains opposing messages, one of the "devil" and one of the "son of man" (Yeshua). The "message" of the "devil", the "enemy", is propagated by the "false prophets" of Matthew 7:12-15, which results in the destruction of the "many", per Matthew 7:12. The "tare seed" "message" of the "devil", propagated by the "false prophets", will according to Yeshua (Issa), stay until the "end of the age" (Mt 13:30).

Yeah , I don’t know what you are about. The injeell is the gospel of Matthew?

 

[MayPeaceBeUpOnYou]

Islam isn't consistent in their judgments. You have the traditions of the Shia, which differs from that of the Sunni. Here is one version:

2. Punishment for Apostasy in Tradition

In traditional Islamic jurisprudence, apostasy is called “irtidad (riddad)”, and apostate is called “murtad”. In tradition, there is a consensus that apostates must be killed. Hanafis exempt apostate women from this.[7] Apostates must be offered with repentance before being killed. This is a recommended act (mustahab) according to Hanafis, and nearly obligatory- basing on hadiths (wajib) according to other sects.[8] According to the tradition; if an apostate dies, is killed or leaves the country, he loses all his properties. His property is taken as spoils for the treasury after his debts are paid.[9] According to Abu Hanifah what he earned as a Muslim is inherited to the legal inheritors. According to four Imams, his property is inherited to legal inheritors in any case. The wedding of the apostate is null and void automatically. According to Shafis, the wife of the apostate must wait during the waiting period (iddah).
Tradition tries to base the killing of apostates on Qur’an, on the Example (Sunnah) of Messenger Mohammad, and on the consensus of the scholars. Let’s check this false evidence:

Oh you are talking about apostasy. Yes if the nation is ruled under shariah law then it’s against the law to openly in public to leave Islam, criticize Islam or the prophet.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

God punishes those who fail on their test in this life.. if it’s those who reject the message or reject god. God is all knowing and will make the right judgement since he is just.

Makes sense.

And Quran having no proof that’s not from god is your opinion, I assume you have read it ?

Here is your chance to demonstrate that Quran have proof, that it is from God.
Go ahead and show.

Well a hard quistion since I wasn’t a born Christian.

Yeah, it is a hard question, isn't it.
but it is a fair game, if you know what I mean. I suggest try as a Christian, and see if you can come to Islam for a good reason.

But I would think that being sincere in someone believes would eventually lead to Islam.

well, As a matter of fact, Christians think the same as you. They think if you are sincere, you will become a devoted Christian and then Jesus will save you at the end. It is only a claim, you both make. You see?

Mohamed being the last prophet makes sense

Why does it make sense, that Muhammad is the last Messenger? Why not Jesus being the last does not make sense?
As a matter of fact Christians believe Jesus is the Last. Mind you, the Jews, believe the last Messenger was already sent.
So, who do you believe and why? I mean, without taking side and looking at it as a neutral and fair person, who do you believe and why?

and 1 of the reasons there is nothing preserved from Jesus.

Who says, nothing preserved from Jesus?
The New Testament contains the teachings and history of Jesus and apostles.

So yeah it’s just how you look at it

Not really. Let me ask you this:

If nothing was preserved from Jesus, then how were People before Muhammad were guided? Think about this question.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

Yeah , I don’t know what you are about. The injeell is the gospel of Matthew?

If you are familiar with Christian Bible (aka New Testament), in Arabic, the Christians called it Injil. This is the same Book the Quran refers as the Book of Christ.

 

[MayPeaceBeUpOnYou]

If you are familiar with Christian Bible (aka New Testament), in Arabic, the Christians called it Injil. This is the same Book the Quran refers as the Book of Christ.

Yes I know the injeel is mention as the revelation that was giving to Jesus by Allah. His message confused me since he was on about verses from Matthew

 

[MayPeaceBeUpOnYou]

Makes sense.



Here is your chance to demonstrate that Quran have proof, that it is from God.
Go ahead and show.




Yeah, it is a hard question, isn't it.
but it is a fair game, if you know what I mean. I suggest try as a Christian, and see if you can come to Islam for a good reason.



well, As a matter of fact, Christians think the same as you. They think if you are sincere, you will become a devoted Christian and then Jesus will save you at the end. It is only a claim, you both make. You see?


Why does it make sense, that Muhammad is the last Messenger? Why not Jesus being the last does not make sense?
As a matter of fact Christians believe Jesus is the Last. Mind you, the Jews, believe the last Messenger was already sent.
So, who do you believe and why? I mean, without taking side and looking at it as a neutral and fair person, who do you believe and why?



Who says, nothing preserved from Jesus?
The New Testament contains the teachings and history of Jesus and apostles.




Not really. Let me ask you this:

If nothing was preserved from Jesus, then how were People before Muhammad were guided? Think about this question.

I have no problems to show why I believe the Quran is from god but let me first answer your other points.

It’s not a fair game to think that I am a Christian since I am sant a Christian or was raised in a Christian household.

And no the Christians don’t think like that. They believe if you don’t have the spirit you won’t accept the truth, obviously you have to be sincere but that’s what I know of Christianity. If you don’t posses the spirit then you won’t accept Jesus dying for you

The reason why Mohamed is the last prophet is that Allah chosen this. And according to Allah Jesus was only sent for the ichildren of isreal which is also mentioned in the Bible. And wel it depends on what kind of Christian you are, some believe that there are prophets still among us, some believe that Jesus wasn’t a prophet, our vieuw of what is considered to be a prophet differs with Christian’s. And the Jews are still waiting for the messiah if I am correct, unless you consider that a messiah isnt a prophet.

I agree with you that some of Jesus teachings are present in Jesus but it’s not preserved totally. I mean first off the writers of the gospels are anonymous , second we don’t have the original to see if it’s preserved. Third the gospels are written decades after Jesus and since we know that when thing are orally transmitted thing get lost and added.

Who said that people weren’t guided before Mohamed? Just because text wasn’t preserved doesn’t mean people werent guided. I mean there were people who did believe in the on true god before the invention of the trinity

 

[2ndpillar]

Oh you are talking about apostasy. Yes if the nation is ruled under shariah law then it’s against the law to openly in public to leave Islam, criticize Islam or the prophet.

The historical objective of the Muslims is to rule the world, but to proceed under the radar. Try and be a kitty cat until one is strong enough to eat the owner. Sharia law and subjugation of the kafir is the ultimate objective. There are places in London and Paris, where the police don't go, and the Muslims now use Sharia law.

 

[2ndpillar]

Oh you are talking about apostasy. Yes if the nation is ruled under shariah law then it’s against the law to openly in public to leave Islam, criticize Islam or the prophet.

The historical objective of the Muslims is to rule the world, but to proceed under the radar. Try and be a kitty cat until one is strong enough to eat the owner. Sharia law and subjugation of the kafir is the ultimate objective. There are places in London and Paris, where the police don't go, and the Muslims now use Sharia law.

I agree with you that some of Jesus teachings are present in Jesus but it’s not preserved totally. I mean first off the writers of the gospels are anonymous , second we don’t have the original to see if it’s preserved. Third the gospels are written decades after Jesus and since we know that when thing are orally transmitted thing get lost and added.

Muhammad was supposedly illiterate according to the Muslim narrative and it was originally passed down orally. It was only after this supposed prophet Mohammad was unforeseeingly murdered by a woman, and his companions mostly killed, that the Koran was supposedly written down under the direction of a Persian. The supposed first four leaders of Islam differed on the number of chapters that were to be included in the Koran. Also it was supposedly originally written in old Arabic, whereas there were no vowels or dots, making any meaning quite a matter of prejudice. Supposedly, all the non original Korans were burned or thrown into the Nile, which apparently didn't happen, as there are around 100 different versions of the Koran today. Although the supposed original writing of the Koran was supposedly sent to the ruling cities of the Arabs, none of those text exist, and no complete Koran exist until the late 7th century. As for the "message" of Yeshua (Jesus), he simply was a light onto the Law and the prophets, which the Muslims declare as the book of the people, which was given by Allah. Yeshua's message was the kingdom, which foretold the rise of "false prophets" who would deceive the "many" (Mt 7:12-15).

 

[2ndpillar]

I don’t know what you are one about?
Only prophet is mention in the Quran is Issa?
Are we talking about the same topic?

In Islam, Jesus (Arabic: عِيسَى ٱبْنُ مَرْيَمَ, romanized: ʿĪsā ibn Maryam, lit. 'Jesus, son of Mary') is believed to be the penultimate prophet and messenger of God and the Messiah sent to guide the Children of Israel (Banī Isra'īl) with a book called the Injīl.

I am not for looking up the chapter and verse of where Isa ibn Maryam is listed as a prophet of Allah, but here is a reference to the fact.

Jesus in Islam - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

This guy who is called the "praised one"/Mohammad, was not given a name in the Koran. He had a father and mother, for the narrative says that this Mohammad said his father and mother were going to hell since they didn't accept Allah and his prophet.

 

[2ndpillar]

Yes I have heard of this. And if I am not wrong according to Jewish religion it’s possible for gentiles to be right toward god. I only don’t remember where I read this.

You heard it from the false prophet Paul. If you read Jeremiah 16:19, you will find out that this line of thought will be soon overturned, with respect to the path set down by Paul. The strangers/foreigners/Gentiles can come to Mount Zion, but the path is narrow (Mt 7:12-14).

 

[MayPeaceBeUpOnYou]

The historical objective of the Muslims is to rule the world, but to proceed under the radar. Try and be a kitty cat until one is strong enough to eat the owner. Sharia law and subjugation of the kafir is the ultimate objective. There are places in London and Paris, where the police don't go, and the Muslims now use Sharia law.

You are talking but saying nothing. There is shariah law in London

 

[InvestigateTruth]

Yes I know the injeel is mention as the revelation that was giving to Jesus by Allah. His message confused me since he was on about verses from Matthew

The Holy Book that God has willed for Christians is the whole chapters of the New Testament. The new Testament, contains Gospel of Matthew, Gospel of Luke, etc, as well as Revelation of John.

This hole Book, is called Injil by the Arab Christians.

Quran eas not written by Allah or even Muhammad. It was written by other people, and later after Muhammad passed away, Uthman and some others put the chapters together. There is no proof that, this Quran is really what Muhammad said, because when this Quran chapters were put together by Uthman, Muhammad was not there to check it, and comfirm it is really the book He wanted it to be.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

I have no problems to show why I believe the Quran is from god but let me first answer your other points.

Yes, go ahead please.

It’s not a fair game to think that I am a Christian since I am sant a Christian or was raised in a Christian household.

The point is, if you claim that God experts Christians to believe in the Qura, you need to understand their position by putting yourself in their position, to see if it makes sense. You need to prove to yourself that, as a Christian, why would one come to Islam.
Remember, Jesus said He is the truth. No one comes to God, except through Him. He also said, He is the last one. The only Son of God. Therefore no need for another Religion after Christ.

And no the Christians don’t think like that. They believe if you don’t have the spirit you won’t accept the truth, obviously you have to be sincere but that’s what I know of Christianity. If you don’t posses the spirit then you won’t accept Jesus dying for you

Ok, but it is the same thing if you really think about it. One can claim, since Christians are not sincere, they do not accept Islam. This is a claim, that anyone can make. But the Questions in the thread, is, how do you know, as a Muslim, are following a true religion from God? How do you know, you are not following a false religion? How do you know, that, Christianity is not the way to God, when Jesus said it is? Do you ever ask yourself why?

The reason why Mohamed is the last prophet is that Allah chosen this.

You need to first prove that Quran is from Allah, and then also prove that Quran says, Muhammad is the Last. So far you are only making claims.

And according to Allah Jesus was only sent for the ichildren of isreal which is also mentioned in the Bible.

then tell me, if Jesus was only sent to children of Israel, then what religion the people in Europe must have been following? Which Messenger was sent for the people in Europe before Muhammad?

and also the idea that Jesus was sent to Jews does not mean, He was only for Jews. Even the Bible says otherwise:

"And He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature. He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned."

Mark 16:15-18

And wel it depends on what kind of Christian you are, some believe that there are prophets still among us, some believe that Jesus wasn’t a prophet, our vieuw of what is considered to be a prophet differs with Christian’s.

No, no Christian excepts that any prophet come with a Holy Book other than Injil (New Testament). So, to them, Muhammad is a false prophet:


"I testify to everyone who hears the prophetic words of this book: If anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book."

Revelation 22:18

You see no need for revelations after the Holy Bible.

If any prophet, comes, he is only to interpret and explain the Bible. He is to be a follower of Jesus. Muhammad was not follower of Jesus, so, Christians look at Him as a false prophet. You need to prove to yourself, they are wrong. They seem to be right, don't you think so?

And the Jews are still waiting for the messiah if I am correct, unless you consider that a messiah isnt a prophet.

Jews do not expect, the Messiah be a Prophet. They expect Messiah to be a Kingz or a Ruler, who comes and establish a powerful world Government, which follows Laws of Torah.

I agree with you that some of Jesus teachings are present in Jesus but it’s not preserved totally. I mean first off the writers of the gospels are anonymous , second we don’t have the original to see if it’s preserved. Third the gospels are written decades after Jesus and since we know that when thing are orally transmitted thing get lost and added.

It does not matter if the writers of Bible are anonymous. God made them Prophets so, they can write it.
it is irrelevant to say, that, Bible writers are not known.
Because God can do that, in His own way. It is written on Bible, that God made many Prophets. Many recieved Holy Spirit.

Who said that people weren’t guided before Mohamed? Just because text wasn’t preserved doesn’t mean people werent guided. I mean there were people who did believe in the on true god before the invention of the trinity

Then, if people had a Book to be guided with, before Muhammad, no need for another Book after the Bible. Then tell me why need Quran?

 

[MayPeaceBeUpOnYou]

You heard it from the false prophet Paul. If you read Jeremiah 16:19, you will find out that this line of thought will be soon overturned, with respect to the path set down by Paul. The strangers/foreigners/Gentiles can come to Mount Zion, but the path is narrow (Mt 7:12-14).

Possible

 

[MayPeaceBeUpOnYou]

The Holy Book that God has willed for Christians is the whole chapters of the New Testament. The new Testament, contains Gospel of Matthew, Gospel of Luke, etc, as well as Revelation of John.

This hole Book, is called Injil by the Arab Christians.

Quran eas not written by Allah or even Muhammad. It was written by other people, and later after Muhammad passed away, Uthman and some others put the chapters together. There is no proof that, this Quran is really what Muhammad said, because when this Quran chapters were put together by Uthman, Muhammad was not there to check it, and comfirm it is really the book He wanted it to be.

So you are saying the bible was written in Arabic before the time of the prophet Mohammed?

 

[MayPeaceBeUpOnYou]

Yes, go ahead please.




The point is, if you claim that God experts Christians to believe in the Qura, you need to understand their position by putting yourself in their position, to see if it makes sense. You need to prove to yourself that, as a Christian, why would one come to Islam.
Remember, Jesus said He is the truth. No one comes to God, except through Him. He also said, He is the last one. The only Son of God. Therefore no need for another Religion after Christ.




Ok, but it is the same thing if you really think about it. One can claim, since Christians are not sincere, they do not accept Islam. This is a claim, that anyone can make. But the Questions in the thread, is, how do you know, as a Muslim, are following a true religion from God? How do you know, you are not following a false religion? How do you know, that, Christianity is not the way to God, when Jesus said it is? Do you ever ask yourself why?




You need to first prove that Quran is from Allah, and then also prove that Quran says, Muhammad is the Last. So far you are only making claims.




then tell me, if Jesus was only sent to children of Israel, then what religion the people in Europe must have been following? Which Messenger was sent for the people in Europe before Muhammad?

and also the idea that Jesus was sent to Jews does not mean, He was only for Jews. Even the Bible says otherwise:

"And He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature. He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned."

Mark 16:15-18



No, no Christian excepts that any prophet come with a Holy Book other than Injil (New Testament). So, to them, Muhammad is a false prophet:


"I testify to everyone who hears the prophetic words of this book: If anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book."

Revelation 22:18

You see no need for revelations after the Holy Bible.

If any prophet, comes, he is only to interpret and explain the Bible. He is to be a follower of Jesus. Muhammad was not follower of Jesus, so, Christians look at Him as a false prophet. You need to prove to yourself, they are wrong. They seem to be right, don't you think so?




Jews do not expect, the Messiah be a Prophet. They expect Messiah to be a Kingz or a Ruler, who comes and establish a powerful world Government, which follows Laws of Torah.




It does not matter if the writers of Bible are anonymous. God made them Prophets so, they can write it.
it is irrelevant to say, that, Bible writers are not known.
Because God can do that, in His own way. It is written on Bible, that God made many Prophets. Many recieved Holy Spirit.




Then, if people had a Book to be guided with, before Muhammad, no need for another Book after the Bible. Then tell me why need Quran?

Too much topics at the same time.

But to your point of me putting myself in Christian’s position . I don’t need to that to determine the truth. We humans are fallible so the best I can do is read the Bible and to know their doctrine. And even if Jesus said that we should go through him, I have no issues with that. A person who followed Jesus at that time is called a Muslim. Jesus was the way to the destination which is god.

No religion after Jesus ? That’s interesting you say that, that would mean that Christianity is false according to jeuss?

The thread why would a Christian look into Islam and not what you are saying, lol

God had send prophets to different regions and tribes . Even tho if there is no prophet doesn’t mean there no people who don’t believe in god. So a bit weird quistion to ask what religion people after jesus.

Jesus was sent according to the Quran. If I am not mistaken even Jesus says it himself in the Bible. And which gospel is Jesus referring to? The Bible what is present now wasn’t available so the both statements cannot be both true.

Wait from what I know the anonymous writers didn’t claim to be prophets but maybe your definition is different then mine.

And it does matter. How can you believe a testimony from someone who you don’t know. How can you know he told the truth?

Can we stick to one topic? Pick one which you wanna discuss and you are Christian correct?

 

[2ndpillar]

So you are saying the bible was written in Arabic before the time of the prophet Mohammed?

The "message" of Isa (Yeshua) was spoken in Aramaic, and later written down in Greek, Aramaic, Latin and then English, etc.. The "book of the people/Jews" was written down in various types of Hebrew. The Arabic of the early 7th century is not the Arabic of today. The early Arabic had no vowels or dots and is interpreted by hit or miss, except there is no complete version available of the time, and what scraps are available are suspect. Supposedly there is copy available in heaven, but the access is a bit limited.

 

[MayPeaceBeUpOnYou]

The "message" of Isa (Yeshua) was spoken in Aramaic, and later written down in Greek, Aramaic, Latin and then English, etc.. The "book of the people/Jews" was written down in various types of Hebrew. The Arabic of the early 7th century is not the Arabic of today. The early Arabic had no vowels or dots and is interpreted by hit or miss, except there is no complete version available of the time, and what scraps are available are suspect. Supposedly there is copy available in heaven, but the access is a bit limited.

So the Bible wasn’t written in Arabic in that time?