Why Heaven and Hell?

[Skwim]

Heaven and hell are god's two chosen destinations for us after we die (I'm not bothering with purgatory). If we've abided by his requirements we go to heaven. If we haven't abided by his requirements, even if we were unaware of them, we go to hell. And for all eternity no less---at least so it's believed by most Christians.

But why do these two alternatives even exist? As I read Christianity they serve to scare one into believing what god wants us to believe. Believe that having faith in Jesus, and perhaps doing good works, will keep us out of hell and get us into heaven.

So god creates hell just so people can avoid it. Truthfully, this doesn't make any sense. Of course, one could say that it's to convince people to believe in Jesus, the litmus test in deciding one's final destination. But this seems no less arbitrary than demanding that one hop on one foot every morning for an hour to be saved from going to hell, and no more momentus.

God says you'd better be scared enough of what I can do to you or else I'll do it. It reminds me of this parody of Christ Knocking at the Door

​

When the elements are laid out god's whole plan comes out as rather ludicrous. UNLESS, that is, god created us for his entertainment. Watching us fumble around trying to play by his rules and meet his expectations, all the while handicapped by the sin card he played on us early on. Of course this would beg the question of his worthiness to be loved and venerated. A demand [one of the rules of play] he insist we abide by. Maybe an ego thing with him?

In any case, why do you think god created Heaven and Hell?


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[Demonslayer]

But why do these two alternatives even exist?

It's particularly confusing when you read Matthew 7 and find out that waaaay more people are going to Hell than Heaven.

“Enter by the narrow gate. For the gate is wide and the way is easy that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many. For the gate is narrow and the way is hard that leads to life, and those who find it are few”

And even more perplexing later in Matthew 19 when you discover that, if you have a good salary, you're pretty much going to Hell no matter what.

Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God."

 

[Debater Slayer]

Snarky post followed by a question that looks almost rhetorical in light of all the snark that preceded it. I don't know about you, but if someone made a similar post asking something like, "Why do you think there is no Heaven or Hell?" and I saw the tone of the post, I wouldn't be able to help but get the impression that they weren't really interested in productive discussion.

Good luck finding anyone who will answer your question seriously, though. As it stands, I find this thread more conducive to an echo-chamber-like "discussion" than anything else.

 

[Demonslayer]

Snarky post followed by a question that looks almost rhetorical in light of all the snark that preceded it. I don't know about you, but if someone made a similar post asking something like, "Why do you think there is no Heaven or Hell?" and I saw the tone of the post, I wouldn't be able to help but get the impression that they weren't really interested in productive discussion.

Good luck finding anyone who will answer your question seriously, though. As it stands, I find this thread more conducive to an echo-chamber-like "discussion" than anything else.

Typical Glompist opinion.

 

[Skwim]

Snarky post followed by a question that looks almost rhetorical in light of all the snark that preceded it.

If the snark in my post is so convincing that its logic deters others from offering any other opinion, so be it. I'm perfectly fine with having made my point without comment, particularly among the Christian readers. And to be honest, I think my assessment is a very strong one. So strong that most Christians here may likely decline to respond---their silence being confirmation of what I've said

I don't know about you, but if someone made a similar post asking something like, "Why do you think there is no Heaven or Hell?" and I saw the tone of the post, I wouldn't be able to help but get the impression that they weren't really interested in productive discussion.

That's regrettable, because I am interested in a productive discussion, especially considering how many discussion here quickly devolve into irrelevancies.

Good luck finding anyone who will answer your question seriously, though.

Thank you.


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[George-ananda]

Why Heaven and Hell?

Because it was a simplistic understanding for a time when people were not educated and unexposed to larger views. I see the simplistic view (heaven or Hell) declining rapidly with the increase in education and exposure in modern times.

 

[Skwim]

Why Heaven and Hell?

Because it was a simplistic understanding for a time when people were not educated and unexposed to larger views. I see the simplistic view (heaven or Hell) declining rapidly with the increase in education and exposure in modern times.

Well, sure, if you're going to take a practical approach to religion.


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[George-ananda]

Well, sure, if you're going to take a practical approach to religion.


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I just like the 'practical approach' over the 'mocking approach'. It is probably our personality differences.

 

[sun rise]

The title of the thread did not specify that you were asking only about the Christian view of heaven and hell. From a reincarnational perspective heaven is where you go between lives if you lived a good life on Earth and hell is where you go if you've lived an negative life on Earth. The experiences are finite and when the life review and the experiences caused by the life review are complete, you come back again to continue your journey. There are of course different ways of conceptualizing this but here's one http://www.ramakrishna.org/activities/message/weekly_message42.htm

 

[Skwim]

I just like the 'practical approach' over the 'mocking approach'. It is probably our personality differences.

Thing is, when one looks at religion practically it severely reduces the topics that can be challenged. Sometimes one has to assume their basis are plausible. Like assuming god is indeed omnipotent in order to discuss its implications. That I may come off as mocking is only because I've found a sober approach often fails to goad people into discussion, whereas a little pricking will sometimes do it.


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[Neo Deist]

Heaven and hell are god's two chosen destinations for us after we die (I'm not bothering with purgatory). If we've abided by his requirements we go to heaven. If we haven't abided by his requirements, even if we were unaware of them, we go to hell. And for all eternity no less---at least so it's believed by most Christians.

But why do these two alternatives even exist? As I read Christianity they serve to scare one into believing what god wants us to believe. Believe that having faith in Jesus, and perhaps doing good works, will keep us out of hell and get us into heaven.

So god creates hell just so people can avoid it. Truthfully, this doesn't make any sense. Of course, one could say that it's to convince people to believe in Jesus, the litmus test in deciding one's final destination. But this seems no less arbitrary than demanding that one hop on one foot every morning for an hour to be saved from going to hell, and no more momentus.

God says you'd better be scared enough of what I can do to you or else I'll do it. It reminds me of this parody of Christ Knocking at the Door

​

When the elements are laid out god's whole plan comes out as rather ludicrous. UNLESS, that is, god created us for his entertainment. Watching us fumble around trying to play by his rules and meet his expectations, all the while handicapped by the sin card he played on us early on. Of course this would beg the question of his worthiness to be loved and venerated. A demand [one of the rules of play] he insist we abide by. Maybe an ego thing with him?

In any case, why do you think god created Heaven and Hell?


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Not to get into a long, draw out post about it, but Christianity has butchered what the Bible actually says about Heaven and Hell. Much of that butchery comes from the 1611 KJV which erroneously translates a simple concept in either Hebrew or Greek. The Bible never says that we go to heaven when we die, only paradise. Revelation 21 defines paradise as being on New Earth, not Heaven.

Secondly, the term for heaven in Greek is ouranós, and it has three different meanings:

1. God's place of dwelling.
2. The cosmos.
3. The sky.

You have to look at each verse in context to understand which of the three it is referring to.

Lastly, Hell is a butchery of four different terms that were lumped together. Those terms are:

1. Sheol - Hebrew for the grave
2. Hades - Greek for the grave
3. Tartarus - a place of punishment for rebellious angels
4. Gehenna - a place of burning

The Church uses the concept of Hell as a place of burning and eternal torment for the purposes of fear mongering and guilt trips. It is utter nonsense.

 

[Skwim]

The title of the thread did not specify that you were asking only about the Christian view of heaven and hell. From a reincarnational perspective heaven is where you go between lives if you lived a good life on Earth and hell is where you go if you've lived an negative life on Earth. The experiences are finite and when the life review and the experiences caused by the life review are complete, you come back again to continue your journey. There are of course different ways of conceptualizing this but here's one http://www.ramakrishna.org/activities/message/weekly_message42.htm

So is the hell one ends up in eternal?


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[Skwim]

Not to get into a long, draw out post about it, but Christianity has butchered what the Bible actually says about Heaven and Hell. Much of that butchery comes from the 1611 KJV which erroneously translates a simple concept in either Hebrew or Greek. The Bible never says that we go to heaven when we die, only paradise. Revelation 21 defines paradise as being on New Earth, not Heaven.
The Church uses the concept of Hell as a place of burning and eternal torment for the purposes of fear mongering and guilt trips. It is utter nonsense.

Thanks for your input, unconventional as it is.


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[Aštra’el]

I recognize profound beauty in Heaven as well as Hell... from every depiction in mythology and what we see in the cosmos and experience here on earth, to Man's own Celestial and Infernal Nature.

 

[Neo Deist]

Thanks for your input, unconventional as it is..

Unconventional yet biblical.

 

[sun rise]

So is the hell one ends up in eternal?
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Not from the Eastern perspective.

And even some Christians, such as C. S. Lewis have a different perspective. C. S. Lewis' book "The Great Divorce" has this non-traditional view:

“There are only two kinds of people in the end: those who say to God, "Thy will be done," and those to whom God says, in the end, "Thy will be done." All that are in Hell, choose it. Without that self-choice there could be no Hell. No soul that seriously and constantly desires joy will ever miss it. Those who seek find. Those who knock it is opened.”

 

[Kuzcotopia]

If you can't argue, be offended.

Sounds about right.

 

[Kuzcotopia]

Heaven and hell are god's two chosen destinations for us after we die (I'm not bothering with purgatory). If we've abided by his requirements we go to heaven. If we haven't abided by his requirements, even if we were unaware of them, we go to hell. And for all eternity no less---at least so it's believed by most Christians.

But why do these two alternatives even exist? As I read Christianity they serve to scare one into believing what god wants us to believe. Believe that having faith in Jesus, and perhaps doing good works, will keep us out of hell and get us into heaven.

So god creates hell just so people can avoid it. Truthfully, this doesn't make any sense. Of course, one could say that it's to convince people to believe in Jesus, the litmus test in deciding one's final destination. But this seems no less arbitrary than demanding that one hop on one foot every morning for an hour to be saved from going to hell, and no more momentus.

God says you'd better be scared enough of what I can do to you or else I'll do it. It reminds me of this parody of Christ Knocking at the Door

​

When the elements are laid out god's whole plan comes out as rather ludicrous. UNLESS, that is, god created us for his entertainment. Watching us fumble around trying to play by his rules and meet his expectations, all the while handicapped by the sin card he played on us early on. Of course this would beg the question of his worthiness to be loved and venerated. A demand [one of the rules of play] he insist we abide by. Maybe an ego thing with him?

In any case, why do you think god created Heaven and Hell?


.

We are all so, so lucky that none of this is true. . . Your entire life devoted to a flyspeck of time (compared to eternity), with no other purpose than to say "yes" to God.

Then, what do we get? An eternity as a jellyfish having an orgasm, or one as a snail flailing in a salt mine.

The only thing missing in an afterlife is obvious. . . the actual dignity of being human. That has no place in heaven and hell.

 

[Estro Felino]

As someone else said here, Heaven and Hell are pure mythology. Allegories. Metaphors. In other words: they don't exist. Afterlife does exist, but explaining what happens when you die it is very arbitrary and complex. Unfortunately, we were given a powerful instrument from the moment we were born: freedom, or free will. Not to us only, but to the entire natural living world. I said unfortunately because free will implies decisions and decisions imply responsibility.
So...when we die, all our deeds, all our information is retained, and remains eternal and unchangeable.
We will have to deal with it for all eternity. And this information can look either hellish or heavenly...that's obvious. We humans are very unique and all different than one another.

 

[Acim]

Heaven is here now. Within us. All around us. To the degree one perceives, and has conviction/faith in world of separation, death, fear and guilt, is the degree to which they are likely to imagine self in own version of hell. Very well may call it something else. Creator God does not acknowledge hell, or place/existence where God is not.