Why can't people just leave the Jews alone?

[Saint Frankenstein]

Maybe because the true God, is trying to bring them back in the fold, and thus what they follow is so off key, everyone has been trying to correct them....

So instead of learning from it, and questioning maybe they've been following the wrong path; they've become hardened, and set in their ways......

So an example of this would be Yeshua, who came along challenging Rabbinic Judaism saying it was not of God, yet of man....With its obsessive ritualism, temple obsession, prayer mongering, over zealous cleanliness, etc...

So now 2000 years later all that is left is their Rabbinic Judaism....

Take your noted hatred of Jews elsewhere. I'm not interested in it and you know that.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

I think, for the European Jews after WW2, they should of been resettled in Europe where they actually had ties.

I don't think they were really welcome anywhere, and of course most of them were wiped out in the Holocaust anyway.

 

[wizanda]

Take your noted hatred of Jews elsewhere. I'm not interested in it and you know that.

I'm Jewish... I don't hate anyone; just things.

It's an observation based on the Bible; clearly YHVH has issues with his people, even Moses said they'd turn against the very base...So just saying maybe what is prophesied, has happened.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I'm Jewish... I don't hate anyone; just things.

It's an observation based on the Bible; clearly YHVH has issues with his people, even Moses said they'd turn against the very base...So just saying maybe what is prophesied, has happened.

I'm not a huge fan of Rabbinic Judaism as a religion, either, but that's between them and God. All religions have issues, anyway.

 

[metis]

Maybe because the true God, is trying to bring them back in the fold, and thus what they follow is so off key, everyone has been trying to correct them....

So instead of learning from it, and questioning maybe they've been following the wrong path; they've become hardened, and set in their ways......

So an example of this would be Yeshua, who came along challenging Rabbinic Judaism saying it was not of God, yet of man....With its obsessive ritualism, temple obsession, prayer mongering, over zealous cleanliness, etc...

So now 2000 years later all that is left is their Rabbinic Judaism....

The above is stereotyping quite a diverse group in reality, and even elementary children are told not to stereotype others.

 

[Flankerl]

I'm Jewish

No you aren't.

I don't hate anyone; just things.

No one is buying it even if you use smilies all the time.

 

[Shusha]

I clearly said Israel can't claim the land since it hadn't existed for NEARLY TWO THOUSAND YEARS.

Obviously in what I said the people living there should be able to live there, that's my entire point. Instead they were displaced from their home for the formation of a state that hadn't existed for nearly 2,000 years.

There is no reason that Jew, Christian or Muslim should of have to leave the area. Is it so hard to understand that it's WRONG to force someone out of their home because you think you "own" the land even though you came from Europe to claim it because 2,000 years ago an ancestor of yours might of lived there?

Am I ****ing crazy for thinking that's wrong?

And yes, I think if if a people was living there within a lifetime they have more of a claim than someone who tries to go back 2,000 years to claim it!

Edit:

Okay, sorry for getting angry... let me clarify.

I don't think anyone should of been resettled in modern day Israel. I don't think any new state should of been formed. I think anyone, Jew, Christian, or Muslim, shouldn't of been displaced from where they already lived.

I think, for the European Jews after WW2, they should of been resettled in Europe where they actually had ties.

There are so many misconceptions in this post its hard to know where to start. I guess, let's start with the obvious about new states being formed. The Ottoman Empire was dissolved after WW1. It no longer existed. This created a sovereignty vacuum which was filled by the creation of six new states: Turkey, Syria, Iraq, Lebanon, Jordan and the state for the Jewish people (Israel). (And also one which was considered, but which never came into being: Kurdistan). The creation of these six new states was based on the concept of self-determination for the peoples who lived in the territories in question under a trusteeship (Britain and France) until the peoples could become self-governing and independent. This was all done through negotiation and treaty. No one seems to argue about the existence of five of these states, even though they were created through the same process and at the same time. No one seems to claim that five of these states came into existence through conquest or colonialism. No one seems to complain about the ethnic cleansing of five of these states. That's a double standard.

Second, the sovereignty over land between nations changes with fair regularity based on the fluid needs of generations of peoples. One concept for the basis of the right to sovereignty is self-determination of a self-identifying cultural or ethnic group who have ties of some length of time to the territory. This is the basis of Palestinian claim to the territory, as it is the basis for the rights of other groups such as the Kurds, the Catalans, Tibetans, First Nations peoples, etc. It is also the basis for the Jewish claim. It is a double standard to claim the the Jewish people do not have this right, while all others do.

Third, is the idea that this right to self-determination can be abrogated or dissolved under certain conditions, such as length of time which has passed since sovereignty was last held, ethnic cleansing or conquest. It is a double standard to say that only the Jewish rights to self-determination can be or have been abrogated without also applying them to other peoples seeking self-determination. It is a double standard to say that conquest transfers rights to some people, while denying this for the Jewish people. And it is a double standard to use ethnic cleansing as as a permissable way of abrogating rights in the case of the Jewish people while forbidding it for the Palestinian people.

The basis of this conflict is in the rejection of rights for the Jewish people. Without this rejection of the Jewish rights there would be no conflict. The acceptance of the Jewish people's inherent, fully equal, humanitarian right to self-determination in their ancestral homeland is the key to peace. If this idea were adopted the solution to the problem becomes easy: two states for two peoples.

 

[Shusha]

Maybe because the true God, is trying to bring them back in the fold, and thus what they follow is so off key, everyone has been trying to correct them....

So instead of learning from it, and questioning maybe they've been following the wrong path; they've become hardened, and set in their ways......

...

The idea that it is "everyone's" job to "correct" the beliefs of a group of people is heinous and a source of evil in the world. The idea that a group of people follow the "wrong path" is vile. The idea that a group of people are "hardened" (emotionally or mentally unresponsive) is despicable. The idea that an entire people are separated from G-d or denied access to G-d is poisonous. This is the ideology which ISIS holds. This is the kind of ideology which dehumanizes entire groups of people and thus opens the door to justified maltreatment of that group of people. It needs to be fiercely challenged and combated.

 

[Godobeyer]

No you aren't.




No one is buying it even if you use smilies all the time.

Tafkiri exist also in Judiasm lol


I buying his replies with or without smilies .

 

[Godobeyer]

Arabs lived in Palestine 100 years ago and made up 95% of the population, Jews made less than 5%. How can you deny the significance of that. There was a Jewish invasion and around 1948 an ethnic cleansing of about 1 million arabs forced to leave the country and this is the kind of BS you are defending.

this could be describe by this image

 

[Shusha]

Leaving aside the comparison of the Jewish people to dogs, what makes the land Palestinian land and not Jewish land? What is the reasoning behind that claim? Couldn't we as easily say that this is a depiction of Arab Muslims taking over Jewish land?

 

[wizanda]

The idea that it is "everyone's" job to "correct" the beliefs of a group of people is heinous and a source of evil in the world.

Wait who said anything about the nations judging people; agree entirely, mankind makes rash decisions when it comes to the life's of millions.....

What was referring to, is that maybe it is God trying to make the Jews change their ways, thus the people attacking them is to fulfill Biblical prophecy.

Yet due to them becoming more on edge, they come across like having eaten bitter grapes.

The idea that a group of people are "hardened" (emotionally or mentally unresponsive) is despicable.

Isaiah 6:10 Harden the hearts of these people. Plug their ears and shut their eyes. That way, they will not see with their eyes, nor hear with their ears, nor understand with their hearts and turn to me for healing."

The above is stereotyping quite a diverse group in reality, and even elementary children are told not to stereotype others.

Deuteronomy 31:29 I know that after my death you will become utterly corrupt and will turn from the way I have commanded you to follow. In the days to come, disaster will come down on you, for you will do what is evil in the LORD's sight, making him very angry with your actions."

 

[Flankerl]

Tafkiri exist also in Judiasm lol


I buying his replies with or without smilies .

The user is simply not a Jew and uses his claim of Jewish heritage to troll Jews on RF.

This can of course amuse you. Better than violence.

 

[Shusha]

Wait who said anything about the nations judging people; agree entirely, mankind makes rash decisions when it comes to the life's of millions.....

What was referring to, is that maybe it is God trying to make the Jews change their ways, thus the people attacking them is to fulfill Biblical prophecy.

Yet due to them becoming more on edge, they come across like having eaten bitter grapes.


Isaiah 6:10 Harden the hearts of these people. Plug their ears and shut their eyes. That way, they will not see with their eyes, nor hear with their ears, nor understand with their hearts and turn to me for healing."

Deuteronomy 31:29 I know that after my death you will become utterly corrupt and will turn from the way I have commanded you to follow. In the days to come, disaster will come down on you, for you will do what is evil in the LORD's sight, making him very angry with your actions."

Cherry-picking biblical verses to justify vile ideas does not make them any less vile.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

The user is simply not a Jew and uses his claim of Jewish heritage to troll Jews on RF.

He is like this crank: http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Nathanael_Kapner

 

[rosends]

Wait? Muslims don't attack Christians due to being ritualistic??

Muslims are more like Rabbinic Judaism; into all sorts of excess ceremony for everything.

Also when were Muslims only targeting Christians specifically?

Muslims can target Christians (trying to evict them from the Holy Land, or telling them that their religion is corrupt), because they see the hard heartedness of Christians who refuse to accept Mohammed as a valid and final messenger.
Like this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perse...Persecution_of_Christians_in_the_Muslim_world
Your logic makes it perfectly reasonable. Well done, justifying Muslim anti-Christian oppression.

 

[rosends]

What was referring to, is that maybe it is God trying to make the Jews change their ways, thus the people attacking them is to fulfill Biblical prophecy.

Yes -- this explains why Muslims oppress Christians -- they are God's tool to make Christians change their ways. Well said.

 

[-Peacemaker-]

I think the Jews need to quit justifying themselves by quoting biblical passages about how God gave them that land. I think they need to quit justifying themselves by claiming that they are reclaiming land that is rightfully theirs by virtue of the fact that their ancestors lived there 2000 years agi. I think they are justified in taking that land on the grounds that they were a people without a home of their own. The Jews are always getting criticized by people groups who have the luxury of a homeland of their own. Such people have no idea what it's like to be wanderers in the world. Now those who inhabit the land the Jews have taken also have a right to keep it for themselves. In this matter power and strength determine the winner. That is the Jew's true claim to the land they now inhabit, that they lack a homeland and that they are the stronger of those competing for the right to live there. All the Jews need to say is "yes we moved into someone else's home because we didn't have one ourselves and the people that lived there have territories all over the region. **** you if you don't like it"

 

[wizanda]

The user is simply not a Jew and uses his claim of Jewish heritage to troll Jews on RF.

Hardly trolling Jews; just posting questions that are relative to discussion...

A troll by definition, is someone who goes around posting snarky comments all the time....

If you point, 3 fingers always point back at your self.

He is like this crank:

Wow, so Yeshua to you was some crank challenging Pharisees/Rabbinic Judaism...Which is the same as all I've ever questioned.

Imagine if you had the same response challenging atheists over their beliefs; you're not a human, you're anti-atheist, how dare you challenge us, you're a waste of time, you're not worth talking to....

Seriously you can't see what happens, is similar to what happened two thousand years ago?

Cherry-picking biblical verses to justify vile ideas does not make them any less vile.

Don't need to cherry pick odd verses, that is what a large percentage of the book is about....

Those hearts that have are already hardened, don't realize the book refers to everyone, and don't apply it could be talking about themselves.

 

[serp777]

LEAVE THE JEWS ALONE ='( ='( ='( !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! LEAVE THEM ALONE ='( ='( ='(!!!