Who is worse? The Irish or Pagans?

[The Emperor of Mankind]

Ask the Catholic Church and, unbelievably, they'll say the Irish. This is because the Republic recently granted equal marriage rights to gays. I get the impression Cardinal Raymond Burke was aiming his remarks at Ireland's overall societal zeitgeist - for daring to run contrary to that of the Church's. And he's talking about Classical Pagans - the kind who gave us democracy, philosophy, astronomy and achieved high levels of culture. So the Irish are worse than them, apparently. For a supposedly learned man it would seem his remarks about gay marriages in history are somewhat off.

Catholic cardinal: Irish people are ‘worse than Pagans’ for passing same-sex marriage · PinkNews

 

[Sultan Of Swing]

Ask the Catholic Church and, unbelievably, they'll say the Irish. This is because the Republic recently granted equal marriage rights to gays. I get the impression Cardinal Raymond Burke was aiming his remarks at Ireland's overall societal zeitgeist - for daring to run contrary to that of the Church's. And he's talking about Classical Pagans - the kind who gave us democracy, philosophy, astronomy and achieved high levels of culture. So the Irish are worse than them, apparently. For a supposedly learned man it would seem his remarks about gay marriages in history are somewhat off.

Catholic cardinal: Irish people are ‘worse than Pagans’ for passing same-sex marriage · PinkNews

Same-sex relationships, unions and even rituals for said unions have existed in history. Could you provide an example, however, where the union was indeed regarded in the same light as a heterosexual marriage, and there was no real difference between the two? I don't believe this exists (I could be wrong). In Roman law, for example, marriages only had legal status if they were between a man and a woman, though same-sex relationships did exist, notably Emperor Nero had a big public ceremony with all the grandeur of marriage with a man, however, in Roman law the view remained the same as to what marriage was from a legal standpoint.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

So Irish pagans are well and truly stuffed.

 

[BSM1]

Being of Irish descent I voted Irish. At least most Pagans are sober before they start drinking.

 

[beenherebeforeagain]

Being of Irish descent I voted Irish. At least most Pagans are sober before they start drinking.

Lol! As a part-Irish pagan, I resemble that remark!

 

[Father Heathen]

Either way, they're still infinitely better than an irrelevant priesthood that rapes children and then tries to cover it up while protecting the perpetrators. They need to have their ridiculous hats slapped off their heads for fancying themselves a moral authority.

There's aslo that whole abhorrence for science thing.

 

[beenherebeforeagain]

Ask the Catholic Church and, unbelievably, they'll say the Irish. This is because the Republic recently granted equal marriage rights to gays. I get the impression Cardinal Raymond Burke was aiming his remarks at Ireland's overall societal zeitgeist - for daring to run contrary to that of the Church's. And he's talking about Classical Pagans - the kind who gave us democracy, philosophy, astronomy and achieved high levels of culture. So the Irish are worse than them, apparently. For a supposedly learned man it would seem his remarks about gay marriages in history are somewhat off.

Catholic cardinal: Irish people are ‘worse than Pagans’ for passing same-sex marriage · PinkNews

Given the history of Ireland's original paganism, and their history of being a people who have been discriminated against and oppressed, I'm personally not surprised that the majority of Irish wish to end certain kinds of blatant discrimination. Even if it goes against the Church's position.

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

Same-sex relationships, unions and even rituals for said unions have existed in history. Could you provide an example, however, where the union was indeed regarded in the same light as a heterosexual marriage, and there was no real difference between the two? I don't believe this exists (I could be wrong). In Roman law, for example, marriages only had legal status if they were between a man and a woman, though same-sex relationships did exist, notably Emperor Nero had a big public ceremony with all the grandeur of marriage with a man, however, in Roman law the view remained the same as to what marriage was from a legal standpoint.

In the case of Nero, he was the Emperor; his word was law. So, at least presumably, his mere say-so would have made his marriage to Pythagoras (the freedman) valid in law. I don't think anyone would have dared to declare the Emperor's marriage illegal either.

Hopefully you aren't a source snob and say "because it's Wikipedia it's automatically invalid!"

From Timeline of same-sex marriage - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Practices and rituals for same sex unions were more recognized in Mesopotamia than in ancient Egypt.[5] In ancient Assyria, there was considered to be nothing wrong with homosexual love between men.[6][7][8][8] The Almanac of Incantations contained prayers giving equal standing to the love of a man for both a woman and a man.[9]

At least two of the Roman Emperors were in same-sex unions; and in fact, thirteen out of the first fourteen Roman Emperors held to be bisexual or exclusively homosexual.[10] The first Roman emperor to have married a man was Nero, who is reported to have married two other men on different occasions. First with one of hisfreedman, Pythagoras, to whom Nero took the role of the bride, and later as a groom Nero married a young boy, who resembled one of his concubines,[11] named Sporus.

Adolescent emperor Elagabalus referred to his chariot driver, a blond slave from Caria named Hierocles, as his husband.[12] He also married an athlete named Zoticus in a lavish public ceremony in Rome amidst the rejoicings of the citizens.[13]

End source

So some civilisations have actually recognised gay marriages in equal standing as straight marriages at at last some point in history. I hope this is satisfactory to you

 

[GoodbyeDave]

Burke is not exactly popular even in the Catholic Church. He used to be on the Congregation making appointments and on the Supreme Court, and the Pope sacked him from both. As we'd say in England, Burke by name, berk by nature.

 

[leibowde84]

Same-sex relationships, unions and even rituals for said unions have existed in history. Could you provide an example, however, where the union was indeed regarded in the same light as a heterosexual marriage, and there was no real difference between the two? I don't believe this exists (I could be wrong). In Roman law, for example, marriages only had legal status if they were between a man and a woman, though same-sex relationships did exist, notably Emperor Nero had a big public ceremony with all the grandeur of marriage with a man, however, in Roman law the view remained the same as to what marriage was from a legal standpoint.

"Marriage", in the context of "same-sex" marriage is a legal term, as "holy matrimony" is religious "marriage" that included religious cerimonies. This is why the Church has no place in this fight. The State is not even discussing or asking that the Church recognize these marriages or conduct ceremonies. If that was actually on the table, the church would have a legitimate argument. As it stands, they are merely trying desperately to hold onto the failed and misguided notion that they still can stop social acceptance of homosexuals.

 

[Wirey]

The do, however, favour allowing priests to marry 12 year old boys.

How can the opinion of a pedophile factory matter to anyone? Are these guys relevant in any meaningful way as a moral compass?

 

[leibowde84]

The do, however, favour allowing priests to marry 12 year old boys.

How can the opinion of a pedophile factory matter to anyone? Are these guys relevant in any meaningful way as a moral compass?

At the very least, they would be prudent to lay off judgment on sexual orientation. A homosexual? Not welcome. A pedophile who is our employee? Let's move you to another congregation with new victims instead of calling the police.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

I have dual nationality ( British / Irish ). I was raised as a Catholic but have practised Buddhism my whole adult life. I also like paganism. I'm straight but have gay friends and I despise homophobia, particularly religious homophobia.
So this is all very confusing!

 

[Sultan Of Swing]

"Marriage", in the context of "same-sex" marriage is a legal term, as "holy matrimony" is religious "marriage" that included religious cerimonies. This is why the Church has no place in this fight. The State is not even discussing or asking that the Church recognize these marriages or conduct ceremonies. If that was actually on the table, the church would have a legitimate argument. As it stands, they are merely trying desperately to hold onto the failed and misguided notion that they still can stop social acceptance of homosexuals.

"Marriage" is not merely a legal term, it is an incredibly loaded term which has religious and emotional implications. When an ordinary person thinks of "marriage", who really thinks it's just a legal term, just some legal contract we give to the government? If it is indeed merely a legal term, then a better word should be used which does not distress those of faith. Seriously, who actually says "holy matrimony"? Everyone says "marriage", and hardly anyone just sees it as a legal term. A better idea would be to have a legal contract, and let people call it whatever they wanted, rather than the government having to make this rather ostentatious and symbolic gesture of redefining the term "marriage", which is an incredibly loaded term. Even if in the eyes of the law, it is indeed merely 'legal', in the eyes of society the concept of 'marriage' extends far beyond that, to claim it is just a legal term surely can't be right, and if it is just a legal term, would you have any problems if we just took the word "marriage" out of government altogether, and just called it some sort of civil contract?

 

[Wirey]

If it will help, I promise not to get married again if a gay couple wants mine.

 

[Baladas]

I am primarily of Irish descent. I've been there, and I love it more than home.
Also, I've had several people here tell me that I technically could be considered pagan.

I say that they are both awesome, and that the Vatican can stuff it.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

My Irish half got drunk, and forgot to vote, and then my Pagan half also got drunk, and forgot what I was supposed to be voting on in the first place.
But it's cool that another nation has moved towards equality. Ironic, however, that the "land of the free" has failed, yet again, to live up to that name.

 

[dust1n]

Either way, they're still infinitely better than an irrelevant priesthood that rapes children and then tries to cover it up while protecting the perpetrators. They need to have their ridiculous hats slapped off their heads for fancying themselves a moral authority.

There's aslo that whole abhorrence for science thing.

Historian believes bodies of 800 babies, long-dead, are in a tank at Irish home for unwed mothers - The Washington Post

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Historian believes bodies of 800 babies, long-dead, are in a tank at Irish home for unwed mothers - The Washington Post

Ya know, when those of us from where ever in Europe find a reason to celebrate, there is something to remind us of such horrors. And, of course, there is always the Irish slave trade to rain on a parade of a pro-gay Ireland.
And I don't think anyone of German descent needs to be reminded of Hitler.
Bah! Maybe the next St. Patties day we'll take full advantage of all you other American mutts drugging yourself to make you wake up next to Bert. Or Sally. But, anyways, their is an agenda behind next year's green beer to take away your American freedoms to make you more free!

 

[dust1n]

Ya know, when those of us from where ever in Europe find a reason to celebrate, there is something to remind us of such horrors. And, of course, there is always the Irish slave trade to rain on a parade of a pro-gay Ireland.
And I don't think anyone of German descent needs to be reminded of Hitler.
Bah! Maybe the next St. Patties day we'll take full advantage of all you other American mutts drugging yourself to make you wake up next to Bert. Or Sally. But, anyways, their is an agenda behind next year's green beer to take away your American freedoms to make you more free!

Eh, we got our own skeletons, as do most countries in the Americas.