What Brought About the End of the Islamic Golden Age?

[chartagony]

Lots of things. Over extension, reactionaries, blowback from conquered peoples rebelling, blowback from attacked peoples launching counter-invasions on increasingly organized scale, invasions via the Seljuk Turks, invasions via the Mongols (this did admittedly happen after the period generally thought of as the golden age seeing as the decline was well underway. Still... what happened at Baghdad... whewf.), dynastic struggles, civil wars, bankruptcy. What happens to every Empire carved via the sword really.

 

[LeftishBritInPA]

Was there really ever an "Islamic" golden age?

Yes there was a period of time where Islamic countries were more advanced than their Christian counterparts, but Islam did not foster it, and in fact often attempted to stop it. Europe was under the grip of the Catholic church which prohibited people from studying non-religious texts. Half the reason that any advances in knowledge happened in Islamic regions was that Arabs at the time were better at preserving pagan Greek texts than the Europeans. Even then scholarly texts were still translated from Latin to Arabic by non-Arabs and non-Muslims). Later on during the englightenment when Europe began to abandon the Catholic church, things turned around. It would have been absurd to call the Enlightenment the "Christian" golden age for the same reasons that the "Islamic" golden age wasn't "Islamic" at all but at best a secular Arab golden age.

Many of the famous "Muslim" scientists and inventors were either not Muslim (usually Jewish) or were persecuted for their blasphemous work.

 

[F0uad]

Was there really ever an "Islamic" golden age?

Yes there was a period of time where Islamic countries were more advanced than their Christian counterparts, but Islam did not foster it, and in fact often attempted to stop it. Europe was under the grip of the Catholic church which prohibited people from studying non-religious texts. Half the reason that any advances in knowledge happened in Islamic regions was that Arabs at the time were better at preserving pagan Greek texts than the Europeans. Even then scholarly texts were still translated from Latin to Arabic by non-Arabs and non-Muslims). Later on during the englightenment when Europe began to abandon the Catholic church, things turned around. It would have been absurd to call the Enlightenment the "Christian" golden age for the same reasons that the "Islamic" golden age wasn't "Islamic" at all but at best a secular Arab golden age.

Many of the famous "Muslim" scientists and inventors were either not Muslim (usually Jewish) or were persecuted for their blasphemous work.

Yet the ''Islamic golden age'' let these non-muslims to get great titles, study and the whole empire was taught to write/read and study while on the Catholic prosecution every person who even wanted to learn was strictly denied or killed. Its the Moorish and Ottomans who freed the Jews from the Catholic prosecutions. Yes Jews and Non-Muslims lived freely in the Islamic empire and were given titles and could do there study anywhere they liked. Yet the majority was Muslim so we can assume the most scholars, historians and scientist were muslims heck i can name over 500 names.

 

[Tomorrows_Child]

Neil DeGrasse Tyson - The Islamic Golden Age: Naming Rights - YouTube



One of Tyson's key point seems to be that the Islamic Golden Age came to an end largely due to the influence of one man, Iman Hamid al-Ghazali. According to Tyson, al-Ghazali saw some kinds of learning, such as mathematics, as being from Satan. As his ideas caught on, the Golden Age came to an end.

Do you think Tyson is onto something? Why or why not?

What, in your opinion, brought about the end of the Islamic Golden Age?

First of all, Tyson is quite wrong in his assumption with regards to Ghazali, who did not simply state that mathematics is devils work or from Satan. What he said was: “a clumsy and stupid person must be kept away from the seashore, not the proficient swimmer; and a child must be prevented from handling a snake, not the skilled snake-charmer.”

Feeding into: “The mathematical sciences…nothing in them entails denial or affirmation of religious matters…from them, however, two evils have been caused…”

So the sciences themselves are not evil but they can result in evil or lack of belief.

Without spending hours typing it up, he essentially warned against the blind following of mathematics and science and those who teach those sciences (even at that time, many of them had become athesitic in their view points, pointing to science as negating Allah). Basically, to not get caught up in thinking that science is superior to religion or use it to disprove the existence of Allah. It's a simple warning that should be heeded to this day.

With regards to the fall of the so called "golden age", we must understand, i twas rather the second golden age of Islam, the first being the life time and imo, in particular the age of Madinah and the establishment of the Islamic state under Prophet Muhammad PBUH.

This second golden age, which led to the creation of Islamic territory from Europe to the far reaches of Asia came to an end for numerous reasons, primary among them the bickering, fighting and civil wars of various muslim groups, their dynasties and nationalities, in complete contradiction with Islamic teachings. This in-fighting led to the enemies of the muslims, largely the christian europeans from growing stronger and eventually, bit by bit, taking muslim territory, destroying muslim cities, their progress, their schools and hospitals, their places of worship, their agriculture and water purification and setting an entire people, spread across at least 3 continents, back a thousand years.

That process has been repeated any time there has been progress across the muslim world, modern examples including Libya, Syria, Pakistan and Iran.

 

[Valjean]

Islam's "golden age" was not military, but intellectual; a few centuries of secularism where scholars operated independent of religion. What brought it to an end, and has kept it suppressed ever since, was fundamentalism -- as promoted by al Ghazali, the Salafists, the Wahabists -- who promoted the idea that free thought and progress was dangerous and must be suppressed.
Fundamentalism is pernicious.

 

[LuisDantas]

I usually doubt claims that a specific person made much of a historical difference, and the OP is no exception.

That Islam apparently has claimed and lost several Golden Ages in its 1400-plus years of history is evidence enough that it is inherently flawed, in no small amount because it is too reliant on central authorities, way too friendly of dogma and far too deficient in promotiong renewal, which is often perceveid as outright pernicious, even when it is most needed.

The history of the decline of the Ottoman Empire is as good an example as any.

 

[LuisDantas]

So the sciences themselves are not evil but they can result in evil or lack of belief.

Lack of belief is far more in line with avoiding evil than with consorting with it.

Without spending hours typing it up, he essentially warned against the blind following of mathematics and science and those who teach those sciences (even at that time, many of them had become athesitic in their view points, pointing to science as negating Allah).

And that, I assume, is perceived by many Muslims as a bad thing?

Basically, to not get caught up in thinking that science is superior to religion or use it to disprove the existence of Allah. It's a simple warning that should be heeded to this day.

That such a worry even exists is indeed a sad warning, but not against science or atheism.

 

[Valjean]

I don't see how the Ottoman period had anything to do with Islam's golden age. The golden age was well over before the Turkish conquests.

 

[Flankerl]

The worst things about the Mongol Conquests was that they didn't finish the job and that they didn't have a better way to get a new Khan.

Muslims like to say that they endorse religious freedom. Well the Mongol Empire knew actual religious freedom that wouldn't be seen again for hundreds of years.


Was it the Persian Shah which beheaded the Mongol Diplomats and send the heads back to Genghis Khan? Well what goes around comes around.

 

[Smart_Guy]

One word: Muslims.

 

[Tomorrows_Child]

Lack of belief is far more in line with avoiding evil than with consorting with it.




And that, I assume, is perceived by many Muslims as a bad thing?



That such a worry even exists is indeed a sad warning, but not against science or atheism.

What does that even mean?

And what I'm typing is from the point of view of Muslims/religious people, i.e. that one who tries to take us away from the path of God should be avoided, so Ghazali was simply stating to not be over-awed by mathematics and mathematicians, not what the OP had originally stated that mathematics or science was "the work of the devil". Many, if not all of the greatest mathematicians, chemists, biologists, philosophers, physicists etc of the time were muslims and practicing muslims at that, who guarded themselves from disbelief.

Anyway, the original answer was to OPs question about what brought about the end of this perceived muslim golden age and it certainly wasn ot one man known as Imam Ghazali. It was a number of factors, many of them similar to what afflicted numerous empires throughout human history.

 

[LuisDantas]

What does that even mean?

That it is all-out sad that people even bother to think of atheism as something to be avoided, or of science and mathematics as "dangerous".

And what I'm typing is from the point of view of Muslims/religious people, i.e. that one who tries to take us away from the path of God should be avoided,

That is what I mean. You are, quite simply, wrong. Terribly, seriously wrong. There is no reason to even hesitate to say that aloud and clear.

so Ghazali was simply stating to not be over-awed by mathematics and mathematicians, not what the OP had originally stated that mathematics or science was "the work of the devil". Many, if not all of the greatest mathematicians, chemists, biologists, philosophers, physicists etc of the time were muslims and practicing muslims at that, who guarded themselves from disbelief.

Such a waste.

 

[Tomorrows_Child]

That it is all-out sad that people even bother to think of atheism as something to be avoided, or of science and mathematics as "dangerous".



That is what I mean. You are, quite simply, wrong. Terribly, seriously wrong. There is no reason to even hesitate to say that aloud and clear.




Such a waste.

A waste in what? Of what?

And as Muslims or religious people, we would tend to stay away from disbelieving in God considering that is our whole schtick...the same way that an atheist would not want to believe in God, considering that's their schtick.

Again, that is not t osay mathematics or science in and of itself is wrong, or evil and as I've stated, that was not Ghazalis point.

Anyway, you always seem to refuse to answer my questions and just argue for the sake of it and take every discussion away from it's central point...plus there's a message waiting for you for about 2 months lol

 

[vaguelyhumanoid]

Didn't the ancient Romans stand on the shoulders of the Greeks and Etruscians who were before them?
They even took their gods from the Greeks!

It's more accurate to say that when they came into contact with the Greeks, they adapted the Greek stories and images to their own gods. In the imperial period, Olympian Zeus and Capitoline Jupiter would've been seen as two aspects of the same deity.

 

[Gmcbroom]

What contributed to the decline of the Islamic golden age. A better question is is ibn Malik the creater of Islam? For example did he invent Mohammed? While it's true there was someone historical and the Koran calls him the prophet. It was only after Malik took power that the name Mohammed became known. Also, from 624 to today there are areas conquered by the arabs where 4 original Korans are supposedly held. Only 2 supposedly survive and they are not complete. Did no one read or write in the Islamic golden age and controlled areas? Yet there are no Writings from Arab sources concerning the Koran or Hadith. Did Mohamed's secretary not know how to read or write? Where are his writings? Mecca wasnt on any map until 740. One century after Mohammed.

 

[GoodbyeDave]

One has to remember that scholarship was always precarious, because so few people were involved: this applied in Antiquity, Byzantium, and the Caliphate. The great advantage Western and Central Europe had from the Middle Ages onwards was the university system: doctors, lawyers, and priests all starting with a liberal arts degree. If you were interested in doing astronomy in Europe, you got a teaching post in a university. In the Muslim world, you needed to find a ruler to subsidise you.

 

[Augustus]

A better question is is ibn Malik the creater of Islam? For example did he invent Mohammed? While it's true there was someone historical and the Koran calls him the prophet. It was only after Malik took power that the name Mohammed became known.

There are coins with Muhammad written on them that date to AH66 before abd al Malik was Caliph.

They were minted by al-Zubayar who was on the opposing side from abd al Malik in the 2nd fitnah.

 

[Augustus]

One of Tyson's key point seems to be that the Islamic Golden Age came to an end largely due to the influence of one man, Iman Hamid al-Ghazali. According to Tyson, al-Ghazali saw some kinds of learning, such as mathematics, as being from Satan. As his ideas caught on, the Golden Age came to an end.

Do you think Tyson is onto something? Why or why not?

Watched a few of his documentaries on the history of science and many of the history bits are simplistic and not very accurate. After al-Ghazli there was actually an increase in philosophical writings. The Golden Age didn't end suddenly it was a very gradual decline over a long period of time that went hand in hand with the declining economic situation the fragmentation of the empire.

Scientific advances have tended to occur in stable and wealthy societies and when it united the fertile crescent for the first time the Islamic Empire was stable and fabulously wealthy. It also benefited from adopting Arabic as a lingua franca and translating works from Greek and Persian. Many of the scholars were Persians, with very few being actual Arabs.

Trading patterns changed over time though and Europe picked up the baton when it's economic situation improved as a result of these and they learned from Arabic scholarship and Greek scholarship acquired via Arabic.

 

[Nietzsche]

With regards to the fall of the so called "golden age", we must understand, i twas rather the second golden age of Islam, the first being the life time and imo, in particular the age of Madinah and the establishment of the Islamic state under Prophet Muhammad PBUH.

Eh, that was a Golden Age of Conquest and great military success, not the scientific, artistic and such Golden Age most people mean when they use that term. Nothing wrong with a "Golden Age of Conquest", mind.

 

[Flankerl]

Eh, that was a Golden Age of Conquest and great military success, not the scientific, artistic and such Golden Age most people mean when they use that term. Nothing wrong with a "Golden Age of Conquest", mind.

I prefer the Mongol Conquests, at least they came with complete religious freedom.
Also the last time when certain regions of the world last had religious freedom which to me is kinda funny.