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What are Hamas' leaders thinking?

icehorse

......unaffiliated...... anti-dogmatist
Premium Member
I'm trying to imagine the discussions that occurred in Hamas HQ as they were planning this attack...

What goals did they have in mind?

Here's one of my theories, but I'd like to hear other theories, so maybe post your theory before hitting the spoiler button?

I think maybe Islamic martyrdom might have been one of the motivators?
 

Debater Slayer

Vipassana
Staff member
Premium Member
My thoughts are that it is utterly unhelpful to try to reduce a complicated decades-long conflict to a blame game about religions or overlook the troubled geopolitical and socioeconomic history of the region to zoom in on just one factor out of many.

Ideologues could at least try to wait for the spilled civilian blood to dry before using the conflict as a springboard to advance their biases and preferred narratives.
 

Orbit

I'm a planet
My thoughts are that it is utterly unhelpful to try to reduce a complicated decades-long conflict to a blame game about religions or overlook the troubled geopolitical and socioeconomic history of the region to zoom in on just one factor out of many.

Ideologues could at least try to wait for the spilled civilian blood to dry before using the conflict as a springboard to advance their biases and preferred narratives.
THIS ^^^^
 

F1fan

Veteran Member
I think it is difficult to understand religious/political fanaticism because so much of it is anti-social and defies the normal standards of living as a cooperative human. Terrorists are never rational actors, and they seem to operate with an 'ends justifies the means' thinking, including their own deaths.

I don't think Israel is totally blameless. They have been resistant to cooperate in recent years, and the tensions have been increasing as an example. The intelligence failures on Israel and the USA is notable here. How Hamas got so many weapons and created a plan without detection is a huge question. How they got these weapons is another question, and that can ripple to other nations in a regional war. I think it was a mistake from a military perspective because Hamas poked a bear. They won't win, and they don't have much support in the world, especially by taking hostages. Frankly I don't think many hostages will survive. My guess is the hostages is two-fold: that they can inflict terrorism in the form of making Israel think twice about tactics, and using them as human shields.

I'm surprized Israel dropped the ball on this. It could have been due in part to their divided society and corrupt government, as that scenario makes patrioitism and duty a difficult commitment.
 
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icehorse

......unaffiliated...... anti-dogmatist
Premium Member
My thoughts are that it is utterly unhelpful to try to reduce a complicated decades-long conflict to a blame game about religions or overlook the troubled geopolitical and socioeconomic history of the region to zoom in on just one factor out of many.

Ideologues could at least try to wait for the spilled civilian blood to dry before using the conflict as a springboard to advance their biases and preferred narratives.
Really? We shouldn't try to understand why this happened???
 

Debater Slayer

Vipassana
Staff member
Premium Member
Really? We shouldn't try to understand why this happened???

The extra question marks don't make the misrepresentation any more credible.

We should absolutely try to understand why this happened, which necessitates looking at the full historical, geopolitical, and socioeconomic picture instead of trying to reduce the conflict to religion or an extremist faction's ideology.
 

icehorse

......unaffiliated...... anti-dogmatist
Premium Member
The extra question marks don't make the misrepresentation any more credible.

We should absolutely try to understand why this happened, which necessitates looking at the full historical, geopolitical, and socioeconomic picture instead of trying to reduce the conflict to religion or an extremist faction's ideology.

In my spoiler I listed one possible factor. How is that reductionist?
 

Colt

Well-Known Member
I'm trying to imagine the discussions that occurred in Hamas HQ as they were planning this attack...

What goals did they have in mind?

Here's one of my theories, but I'd like to hear other theories, so maybe post your theory before hitting the spoiler button?

I think maybe Islamic martyrdom might have been one of the motivators?
The truth is they have never liked nor wanted peace with the Jews! The religious fanaticism component comes from Islam and goes way back to the Ishmael and Isaac controvery.
 

Debater Slayer

Vipassana
Staff member
Premium Member
In my spoiler I listed one possible factor. How is that reductionist?

One possible factor? Sure, it is one of those. How significant and influential it is, in the grand scheme of the conflict, compared to the numerous other factors involved is a different story.
 

F1fan

Veteran Member
It's being reported that Hamas is now threatening to execute hostages. One for every rocket fired into Gaza that kills citizens.
 

Vee

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
I'm trying to imagine the discussions that occurred in Hamas HQ as they were planning this attack...

What goals did they have in mind?

Here's one of my theories, but I'd like to hear other theories, so maybe post your theory before hitting the spoiler button?

I think maybe Islamic martyrdom might have been one of the motivators?
I'm not sure there's a lot of thinking going on there.
 

Yerda

Veteran Member
Probably to draw Israel into an excessively violent response. Which certainly is what happened.
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
A Jewish controlled entity has never been acceptable amongst the vast majority of Arabs for both religious and political reasons, and this is nothing new. Even within Islam, divisions between them, mostly Sunni v Shi'i, have often been bloody.
 

Yokefellow

Active Member
I'm trying to imagine the discussions that occurred in Hamas HQ as they were planning this attack...

"This False Flag operation will be epic."

"Too bad neither side gets it yet"


What goals did they have in mind?

Israel's 9/11. Rebuild the Temple. Etc. Etc.

Here's one of my theories, but I'd like to hear other theories...

This...


Oh and...

 

Heyo

Veteran Member
Oh and...

That is a severe disservice to the two women. Nobody wants to be mentioned in a post together with that guy.
 

Heyo

Veteran Member
The extra question marks don't make the misrepresentation any more credible.

We should absolutely try to understand why this happened, which necessitates looking at the full historical, geopolitical, and socioeconomic picture instead of trying to reduce the conflict to religion or an extremist faction's ideology.
Two extremist faction's ideologies. There are no "good guys" in that conflict.

While religion may be at the root of the conflict, every single action, especially one of this size, has usually a tactical and/or political reason or trigger. People who plan such attacks can't be delusional if they are successful. Hamas has to know that they can't win and that it will cost them. They also have to know that they will not gain any sympathy on the international stage.

So, why and why now? It could be just a tactical manoeuvre to free some imprisoned terrorists as was suspected in the video posted by @Yokefellow but does that justify an operation of this size? If Hanlon's Razor doesn't cut here (and I think it doesn't), there must be an external trigger we don't know about.
 
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