UKRAINE ... What would we be doing if this was our country?

[oldbadger]

I keep on seeing scenes of such sadness, bravery, determination and courage.

Here are some, one per post...
Women working in a production line, making molotov bombs.

....please add your own.

 

[oldbadger]

And this one:-
A Pensioner being trained to use an assault rifle. This is a clip of a right-wing training facility....it doesn't matter who, or what..... This is happening all over...

An elderly man, disabled, kissed his daughter at the border and turned back to Ukraine.
His daughter said,'But you can't even walk far!'.
He replied,'Then I'll crawl'.

 

[oldbadger]

And another:-
Ukrainian men kissing their families 'goodbye' and turning back.
Although men must not leave their country at this time, I doubt that many want to.

 

[England my lionheart]

 

[oldbadger]

Guts.

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

What would we be doing if this was our country?

In Ukraine, we see a united people displaying courage, character, and patriotism. I'm American. I wouldn't expect Americans to react like that.

 

[Stevicus]

In Ukraine, we see a united people displaying courage, character, and patriotism. I'm American. I wouldn't expect Americans to react like that.

I'm not so sure of that. Americans have rallied together and unified against a common enemy in the past.

Of course, it's been a long time since we've been invaded. The last time was the British in the War of 1812.

There was also a border dispute with Mexico, and when Mexico sent its army across the Rio Grande in 1845, the US considered it an "invasion."

The Civil War was a different kettle of fish altogether, since we fought with each other. But there were plenty of stories of courage, character, and patriotism from that war.

Since then, America has been relatively safe from any threat of full-scale invasion. Some say that Americans have grown too soft, spoiled, and fat, and maybe there's some truth to that. Some might say Americans don't have the stamina or the stomach for war anymore.

But I guess it varies from individual to individual. There are some Americans who seemingly love war. I know of people who have been spending the past decades building trenches, stocking up on supplies, building tunnels between homes, stockpiling weapons and ammunition. It's almost like they're just raring for something to happen.

 

[oldbadger]

In Ukraine, we see a united people displaying courage, character, and patriotism. I'm American. I wouldn't expect Americans to react like that.

Isn't valour, courage and gallantry wonderful to behold? It's there, shown in all ages, classes, either gender.... and it's saddening to see them struggle on alone against such a massive brute force.
We are all frightened of what Putin will do of we join in against the invasion but I think we will have to act this time, or the next time or the time after that, just as happened with that other bandit Hitler.

 

[Aupmanyav]

"UKRAINE ... What would we be doing if this was our country"?: We would have thought twice before trying to join NATO when Russia was objecting to it. But when attacked, we will fight to death. If the Ukranians were expecting NATO to send soldiers or strike against Russian Forces, they were under gross misconception. I blame Zelenskyy for misjudgment.

 

[PureX]

I'm not so sure of that. Americans have rallied together and unified against a common enemy in the past.

Of course, it's been a long time since we've been invaded. The last time was the British in the War of 1812.

There was also a border dispute with Mexico, and when Mexico sent its army across the Rio Grande in 1845, the US considered it an "invasion."

The Civil War was a different kettle of fish altogether, since we fought with each other. But there were plenty of stories of courage, character, and patriotism from that war.

Since then, America has been relatively safe from any threat of full-scale invasion. Some say that Americans have grown too soft, spoiled, and fat, and maybe there's some truth to that. Some might say Americans don't have the stamina or the stomach for war anymore.

But I guess it varies from individual to individual. There are some Americans who seemingly love war. I know of people who have been spending the past decades building trenches, stocking up on supplies, building tunnels between homes, stockpiling weapons and ammunition. It's almost like they're just raring for something to happen.

The US has been engaged in warfare almost continually since WW2. So claiming that we have lost the taste for war is a bit weird. We LOVE war. We kill each other at home when we're not out in the world killing someone else. Massive violent obliteration is our standard 'go-to' response to any perceived moral infraction. We are insanely self-righteous and given to extreme violent reaction. Any country in the world that doesn't understand this is taking their own lives in their hands.

The big factor, this time, is that we have never taken on any country that might prove to be our equal. We're basically bullies that only attack countries that are far weaker militarily than we are. And Putin is betting on that track record holding true in the future.

 

[F1fan]

In Ukraine, we see a united people displaying courage, character, and patriotism. I'm American. I wouldn't expect Americans to react like that.

I disagree. The USA came together for 9-11 pretty well.

Heck even the FOX news coverage I've seen has praised Biden on his policy actions. So holy ****, if FOX can be patriotic for a foreign war.....

 

[Martin]

Horrendous situation, particularly for the children. Impossible choices - hide underground, try to get out, or go to the rifle.
We take so much for granted.

 

[Stevicus]

The US has been engaged in warfare almost continually since WW2. So claiming that we have lost the taste for war is a bit weird. We LOVE war.

That's obviously true for some, although I've observed some sharp differences of opinion among Americans regarding the question of war or peace.

Even historically, public perceptions and attitudes towards war have changed from what they used to be. Even the warmongers have adopted a more "professional" demeanor, as there's no room for any swashbuckling prima donnas like Patton and MacArthur anymore. They may still love war, but they're not supposed to - not officially anyway.

Americans often claim that they don't like war, but then they portray much of the outside world as some kind of evil jungle full of dragons, pirates, and bandits, where our presence is needed to protect women and children from danger. Stories of white knights rushing to the rescue are quite inspiring at times.

But I doubt very many people would go along with slogans like "54-40 or fight!" Calling for war so we could have more territory; those days are over. Few Americans would support war just for that purpose, even if we did so in the past.

We kill each other at home when we're not out in the world killing someone else. Massive violent obliteration is our standard 'go-to' response to any perceived moral infraction. We are insanely self-righteous and given to extreme violent reaction. Any country in the world that doesn't understand this is taking their own lives in their hands.

The big factor, this time, is that we have never taken on any country that might prove to be our equal. We're basically bullies that only attack countries that are far weaker militarily than we are. And Putin is betting on that track record holding true in the future.

Our main focus during the Cold War was to try to contain the Soviet Union while doing everything possible to avoid direct confrontation. I don't think either side really wanted nuclear war, but they still seemed to enjoy the game of brinkmanship.

I think the Cold War was a foolish and costly waste, which caused dissension here at home, undermined our civil liberties, led to hot wars and upheavals throughout the world, and could have ended in the death of us all. And for what? Some Americans might claim it was all about freedom, but why must we give up our freedom in order to preserve it?

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

In Ukraine, we see a united people displaying courage, character, and patriotism. I'm American. I wouldn't expect Americans to react like that.

Americans have rallied together and unified against a common enemy in the past. Of course, it's been a long time since we've been invaded. The last time was the British in the War of 1812.

If America were invaded by Russia today, America would have to contend with the modern Republican party, who I would expect to be complicit in the invasion while trying to curry favor with Putin. Putin wasn't able to cause a visible rift in the Ukrainian people, but imagine a campaign intended to divide the American people's loyalty to one another and democratic principles.

Tucker Carlson or somebody like him would be its cheerleader on Fox, which wouldn't censor him, and millions of Americans would be convinced that their enemy was not Russia, but the Democratic party, and welcome the invaders to "own the libs." Some would share data as Cambridge Analytica and Bannon did in 2016. Many would be in negotiation with the Russians trying to benefit from an invasion.

I disagree. The USA came together for 9-11 pretty well.

I don't think that's a predictor of what would happen if the Russians were at the gate. Most Americans hated Islamic terrorists. They were already together on that issue, and still are. The problem in this instance is that the Russians are already in America - in the Republican party - and there would be significant anti-American activity coming from them as there is now. It would assist Putin in further setting the American people against one another. Any other country in the world, perhaps, would behave as the Ukrainians have, but America is an outlier in many undesirable categories. The whole world is aghast at how Americans behave now, as am I.

 

[England my lionheart]

Guts.

Reminicient of the man who stood in front of the tanks in tianamen square china.

 

[Stevicus]

If America were invaded by Russia today, America would have to contend with the modern Republican party, who I would expect to be complicit in the invasion while trying to curry favor with Putin. Putin wasn't able to cause a visible rift in the Ukrainian people, but imagine a campaign intended to divide the American people's loyalty to one another and democratic principles.

Tucker Carlson or somebody like him would be its cheerleader on Fox, which wouldn't censor him, and millions of Americans would be convinced that their enemy was not Russia, but the Democratic party, and welcome the invaders to "own the libs." Some would share data as Cambridge Analytica and Bannon did in 2016. Many would be in negotiation with the Russians trying to benefit from an invasion.

At this point, I don't see how the Russians could realistically invade America. If they did, I'm not sure how different parties or factions might resist. I was rejected for military service, so I never served. I've never been in a combat zone, so I can't really say how I would react if I found myself in that situation. I think to myself: What if I was just sitting at home one night, quietly watching TV or posting to RF, and all of a sudden bombs start going off around me?

Until it actually happens, then it's just an abstraction, a "what if." But if one actually has to go through it, it might change their psychology and their politics rather quickly. But there may still be a few Quislings among us, if it comes to that. The Nazis were able to find loyal recruits in many of the countries they occupied.

Did you ever see the movie Red Dawn? The hypothetical scenario which was the premise of the movie was the exact same scenario outlined in a video I saw in school. It was produced by the American Conservative Union and focused on the Sandinista government of Nicaragua and how it was vital for the US to stop the spread of communism in Central America. It was the same domino theory applied to Central America, which (they predicted) would topple Mexico and then, the United States. A few years later, this movie came out.

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

Did you ever see the movie Red Dawn?

I don't think so.

At this point, I don't see how the Russians could realistically invade America.

Agree.

I was answering the question the OP asked - what would we be doing if this was our country. As you know, I answered, "In Ukraine, we see a united people displaying courage, character, and patriotism. I'm American. I wouldn't expect Americans to react like that." In post #14, I elaborated. America would have to contend with the following from the Lincoln Project. Ukraine has to deal with separatists in the east, but America would have to deal with traitors in the highest echelons of government:

 

[oldbadger]

Reminicient of the man who stood in front of the tanks in tianamen square china.

Yes!
Exactly what I thought.
I liked the film that followed, the bloke who drove up to that bust tank and told the soldiers to f off back to Russia, offered them a tow. Humour with guts .....
I don't think that we know what we can or can't do until it all happens to us. But some of the vids are chilling. I'll put up that one of the Ukrainian fighting and dying on that bridge later

 

[oldbadger]

At this point, I don't see how the Russians could realistically invade America. If they did, I'm not sure how different parties or factions might resist. I was rejected for military service, so I never served. I've never been in a combat zone, so I can't really say how I would react if I found myself in that situation. I think to myself: What if I was just sitting at home one night, quietly watching TV or posting to RF, and all of a sudden bombs start going off around me?

Until it actually happens, then it's just an abstraction, a "what if." But if one actually has to go through it, it might change their psychology and their politics rather quickly. But there may still be a few Quislings among us, if it comes to that. The Nazis were able to find loyal recruits in many of the countries they occupied.

Did you ever see the movie Red Dawn? The hypothetical scenario which was the premise of the movie was the exact same scenario outlined in a video I saw in school. It was produced by the American Conservative Union and focused on the Sandinista government of Nicaragua and how it was vital for the US to stop the spread of communism in Central America. It was the same domino theory applied to Central America, which (they predicted) would topple Mexico and then, the United States. A few years later, this movie came out.

This is about real valour and gallantry really happening now.

 

[England my lionheart]

Yes!
Exactly what I thought.
I liked the film that followed, the bloke who drove up to that bust tank and told the soldiers to f off back to Russia, offered them a tow. Humour with guts .....
I don't think that we know what we can or can't do until it all happens to us. But some of the vids are chilling. I'll put up that one of the Ukrainian fighting and dying on that bridge later

Yes i love that one.