There is evidence there is sorcery upon the Quran (Link vs PoetPhilosopher)

[PoetPhilosopher]

How so? I don't think blockage of clear context is possible for example with these factors alone. There should be nothing to obstruct language from being clear in this regard.

The problem with assuming there is malice/sorcery/etc. behind things is I feel it creates a double standard if not applied universally. It implies that people are dark or evil rather than ignorant, confused, restricted to human reason, or simply forgetting things.

So I'd say if you are to believe that humans get Scriptures wrong because of Satan, you might as well consider it that if someone misses your birthday, for example, that it was Satan rather than a misunderstanding or forgetfulness, too. Otherwise, it kind of creates a double standard about human reason.

And I'll be honest... considering Satan is behind everything "wrong" that humans do, is a belief that leads to suspicion, possible hostility toward others, etc - if not careful.

 

[Link]

The problem with assuming there is malice/sorcery/etc. behind things is I feel it creates a double standard if not applied universally. It implies that people are dark or evil rather than ignorant, confused, restricted to human reason, or simply forgetting things.

So I'd say if you are to believe that humans get Scriptures wrong because of Satan, you might as well consider it that if someone misses your birthday, for example, that it was Satan rather than a misunderstanding or forgetfulness, too. Otherwise, it kind of creates a double standard about human reason.

And I'll be honest... considering Satan is behind everything "wrong" that humans do, is a belief that leads to suspicion, possible hostility toward others, etc - if not careful.

There can be natural reasons assumed for many things people do wrong. Now maybe proving there is sorcery and Satan, we can re-examine if those are all natural motives or not. But they don't require magic to explain. However, in this case, magic is definitely required to explain it.

 

[PoetPhilosopher]

There can be natural reasons assumed for many things people do wrong. Now maybe proving there is sorcery and Satan, we can re-examine if those are all natural motives or not. But they don't require magic to explain. However, in this case, magic is definitely required to explain it.

Still, if people get other things wrong (like birthdays) due to human reason (as a possibility), who's to say they wouldn't get the Quran wrong as well for that same reason (human reason)?

 

[Link]

Still, if people get other things wrong (like birthdays) due to human reason (as a possibility), who's to say they wouldn't get the Quran wrong as well for that same reason (human reason)?

It's not simply about getting it wrong. IT's that there in absence of the clear recitation that is clearer then others by language rules, from even as a mere possibility in the commentaries of Quran and scholarly works.

Remember, I have to prove the following:

(1) It's a much clearer recitation
(2) It's not seen a possibility in commentaries or scholarly works
(3) It violates the norms of natural language to not see these recitations
(4) There is no natural explanation to these 3 combination of facts (1 to 3)
therefore magic and supernatural has to be assumed

 

[PoetPhilosopher]

It's not simply about getting it wrong. IT's that there in absence of the clear recitation that is clearer then others by language rules, from even as a mere possibility in the commentaries of Quran and scholarly works.

Remember, I have to prove the following:

(1) It's a much clearer recitation
(2) It's not seen a possibility in commentaries or scholarly works
(3) It violates the norms of natural language to not see these recitations
(4) There is no natural explanation to these 3 combination of facts (1 to 3)
therefore magic and supernatural has to be assumed

I think you might be onto something, I'm just not ready to attribute that something to Satan or magic - I actually would consider the two the least likely, and hardest to prove options.

I'm not saying it's entirely impossible, either.

That being said, saying that it's Satan, supernatural, or magic, sets a pretty high bar. If you go by likelihoods, there's even just as good a likelihood that it's a third option we haven't figured out yet, or may not even know the answer to - that is different than both standard human reasoning, and Satan.

 

[Link]

I think you might be onto something, I'm just not ready to attribute that something to Satan or magic - I actually would consider the two the least likely, and hardest to prove options.

I'm not saying it's entirely impossible, either.

That being said, saying that it's Satan, supernatural, or magic, sets a pretty high bar. If you go by likelihoods, there's even just as good a likelihood that it's a third option we haven't figured out yet, or may not even know the answer to - that is different than both standard human reasoning, and Satan.

The only possibility I can think of is alien tech that resembles magic controlling minds and Ahlulbayt (a) being in on it. It violates God's Lordship though and is against the character of Ahlulbayt (a).

 

[PoetPhilosopher]

The only possibility I can think of is alien tech that resembles magic controlling minds and Ahlulbayt (a) being in on it. It violates God's Lordship though and is against the character of Ahlulbayt (a).

I've thought of other possibilities. Such as systematic bias or corruption, but bias or corruption that may not be influenced by Satan.

 

[Link]

I've thought of other possibilities. Such as systematic bias or corruption, but bias or corruption that may not be influenced by Satan.

What bias would Shia scholars have for not seeing these recitations?

 

[PoetPhilosopher]

What bias would Shia scholars have for not seeing these recitations?

My answer is "I don't know."

And I actually think it makes more sense to say "I don't know." to some things, rather than attribute them to Satan.

For example, I don't know the answer to why, despite Trump being accused of a ton of crimes, why people seem to want to vote for him more than ever. But I still don't attribute it to Satan.

 

[Link]

My answer is "I don't know."

And I actually think it makes more sense to say "I don't know." to some things, rather than attribute them to Satan.

For example, I don't know the answer to why, despite Trump being accused of a ton of crimes, why people seem to want to vote for him more than ever. But I still don't attribute it to Satan.

The thing is they would have a bias to see many of these recitations. The fact they didn't show, shows they didn't see despite bias to see them. This requires an explanation. Nothing natural about it in my view.