The whys of Hell and Jesus.

[jojom]

If any of the questions here have reasonable answers, please share.

Q.1 Why did the god of Abraham create hell, or at least lets it exist?

Q.2 Does eternal punishment truly fit the crime of comparatively brief temporal sin?

Q.3 Why create such a narrow and conditional means of avoiding hell---believe in Jesus as one's savior? (Most of civilization never heard of it, or have been convinced of its necessity.)

Q. 4 What do you think god achieves by, or derives from, setting up this particular escape rout: believing in Jesus as one's savior?
​

And please, no "God works in mysterious ways" or similar explanations.


.

 

[DawudTalut]

Peace be on you.
Though the questions seems to be for Christians, I think others may answer:
Peace be on you.

1) According to Holy Quran, Hell is like hospital or correctional temporary facility or place where 'incomplete ones' are made complete.

[ch101:v10] "Hell will be his (nursing) mother."
[Holy Quran: alislam.org/quran]
The words are "fa ummohu haviah"

As when unborn child gets completed, is born. The weak people will be treated and will be out of hell to climb the ladder of progress.

2) "" Holy Prophet announced:"A time will come when no one will be left in Hell; winds will blow and the windows and doors of Hell will make a rattling noise on account of the blowing winds." [Tafsir-ul-Maalam-ul-Tanzil under verse Hud:107]""
https://www.alislam.org/library/belief.html



3) According to Ahmadiyya Muslims, Quran teaches that salvation requires
=grace of God.
=right faith.
=good deeds.
=people of previous religions who act upon correct part of their teachings and message of Islam [i.e. the full version of religion by One God] has not reached to them properly, they believe in God and Hereafter, they shall get salvation too.

Jesus was in Moses' dispensation, he could not have brought anything new which could defy whole fundamental of Abrahamic religion; God -- Messenger -- Teaching -- Faith -- Good Work -- Hereafter.

 

[jojom]

Peace be on you.
Though the questions seems to be Christians, I think others may answer:
Peace be on you.

1) According to Holy Quran, Hell is like hospital or correctional temporary facility or place where 'incomplete ones' are made complete.

[ch101:v10] "Hell will be his (nursing) mother."
[Holy Quran: alislam.org/quran]
The words are "fa ummohu haviah"

As when child gets completed, is born. The weak people will be treated and will be out of hell to climb the ladder of progress.

2)
https://www.alislam.org/library/belief.html

Quite unlike the hell of Christianity and Judaism.


.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

Well, what can I say... God's work is mysterious...

 

[angellous_evangellous]

Quite unlike the hell of Christianity and Judaism.

Please describe the hell of Judaism.

 

[jojom]

Please describe the hell of Judaism.

"Gehinnom: A Jewish Hell
Only truly righteous souls ascend directly to Gan Eden, say the sages. The average person descends to a place of punishment and/or purification, generally referred to as Gehinnom.

Some view Gehinnom as a place of torture and punishment, fire and brimstone. Others imagine it less harshly, as a place where one reviews the actions of his/her life and repents for past misdeeds.

The soul’s sentence in Gehinnom is usually limited to a twelve-month period of purgation before it takes its place in Olam Ha-Ba (Mishnah Eduyot 2:9, Shabbat 33a). This twelve-month limit is reflected in the yearlong mourning cycle and the recitation of the Kaddish (the memorial prayer for the dead).

Only the utterly wicked do not ascend to Gan Eden at the end of this year. Sources differ on what happens to these souls at the end of their initial time of purgation. Some say that the wicked are utterly destroyed and cease to exist, while others believe in eternal damnation (Maimonides, Mishneh Torah, Law of Repentance, 3:5-6).
http://www.myjewishlearning.com/article/heaven-and-hell-in-jewish-tradition/


.​

 

[angellous_evangellous]

I think a blood vessel just popped in my head.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

Who will save me from this body of death!

 

[angellous_evangellous]

"Gehinnom: A Jewish Hell
Only truly righteous souls ascend directly to Gan Eden, say the sages. The average person descends to a place of punishment and/or purification, generally referred to as Gehinnom.

Some view Gehinnom as a place of torture and punishment, fire and brimstone. Others imagine it less harshly, as a place where one reviews the actions of his/her life and repents for past misdeeds.

The soul’s sentence in Gehinnom is usually limited to a twelve-month period of purgation before it takes its place in Olam Ha-Ba (Mishnah Eduyot 2:9, Shabbat 33a). This twelve-month limit is reflected in the yearlong mourning cycle and the recitation of the Kaddish (the memorial prayer for the dead).

Only the utterly wicked do not ascend to Gan Eden at the end of this year. Sources differ on what happens to these souls at the end of their initial time of purgation. Some say that the wicked are utterly destroyed and cease to exist, while others believe in eternal damnation (Maimonides, Mishneh Torah, Law of Repentance, 3:5-6).
http://www.myjewishlearning.com/article/heaven-and-hell-in-jewish-tradition/


.​

Seriously, as a public service you should post something entertaining to keep people from gouging their eyes out.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

In this case it takes two -

 

[angellous_evangellous]

My expectations are so very low. And I'm still bitterly disappointed.

 

[Mycroft]

Q.1 Why did the god of Abraham create hell, or at least lets it exist?​

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Because a gun's no good for leverage if it ain't loaded.

 

[Tumah]

"Gehinnom: A Jewish Hell
Only truly righteous souls ascend directly to Gan Eden, say the sages. The average person descends to a place of punishment and/or purification, generally referred to as Gehinnom.

Some view Gehinnom as a place of torture and punishment, fire and brimstone. Others imagine it less harshly, as a place where one reviews the actions of his/her life and repents for past misdeeds.

The soul’s sentence in Gehinnom is usually limited to a twelve-month period of purgation before it takes its place in Olam Ha-Ba (Mishnah Eduyot 2:9, Shabbat 33a). This twelve-month limit is reflected in the yearlong mourning cycle and the recitation of the Kaddish (the memorial prayer for the dead).

Only the utterly wicked do not ascend to Gan Eden at the end of this year. Sources differ on what happens to these souls at the end of their initial time of purgation. Some say that the wicked are utterly destroyed and cease to exist, while others believe in eternal damnation (Maimonides, Mishneh Torah, Law of Repentance, 3:5-6).
http://www.myjewishlearning.com/article/heaven-and-hell-in-jewish-tradition/
​

​

The source at end (Maimonides) takes the opinion that the souls of the wicked are destroyed completely and not that they experience eternal damnation. The author of that article seems to have added that last bit it without listing a source for it and contrary to common Jewish opinion.

 

[rusra02]

If any of the questions here have reasonable answers, please share.

Q.1 Why did the god of Abraham create hell, or at least lets it exist?

Q.2 Does eternal punishment truly fit the crime of comparatively brief temporal sin?

Q.3 Why create such a narrow and conditional means of avoiding hell---believe in Jesus as one's savior? (Most of civilization never heard of it, or have been convinced of its necessity.)

Q. 4 What do you think god achieves by, or derives from, setting up this particular escape rout: believing in Jesus as one's savior?
​

And please, no "God works in mysterious ways" or similar explanations.


.

1. God did not create a place of torment. No such place exists.
2. The punishment for sin is death, not eternal torment. (Romans 6:23)
3. The ransom sacrifice of Christ was necessary to ransom mankind from sin and death. (John 3:16)
4. God shows mercy to deserving ones while satisfying his own standard of perfect justice and righteousness.(Romans 3:26)

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

I think a blood vessel just popped in my head.

Who will save me from this body of death!

Please describe the hell of Judaism.

http://www.myjewishlearning.com/article/heaven-and-hell-in-jewish-tradition

Interesting reference. Let's see how it begins:

Like other spiritual traditions, Judaism offers a range of views on the afterlife, including some parallels to the concepts of heaven and hell familiar to us from popular Western (i.e., Christian) teachings.

Sheol: An Underground Abyss
The subject of death is treated inconsistently in the Bible, though most often it suggests that physical death is the end of life. This is the case with such central figures as Abraham, Moses, and Miriam.

There are, however, several biblical references to a place called Sheol(cf. Numbers 30, 33). It is described as a region “dark and deep,” “the Pit,” and “the Land of Forgetfulness,” where human beings descend after death. The suggestion is that in the netherworld of Sheol, the deceased, although cut off from God and humankind, live on in some shadowy state of existence.

While this vision of Sheol is rather bleak (setting precedents for later Jewish and Christian ideas of an underground hell) there is generally no concept of judgment or reward and punishment attached to it. In fact, the more pessimistic books of the Bible, such as Ecclesiastes and Job, insist that all of the dead go down to Sheol, whether good or evil, rich or poor, slave or free man (Job 3:11-19).

Afterlife and the World to Come
The development of the concept of life after death is related to the development of eschatology (speculation about the “end of days”) in Judaism. Beginning in the period following the destruction of the First Temple in Jerusalem (586 BCE), several of the classical Israelite prophets (Amos, Hosea, andIsaiah) began forecasting a better future for their people.

However, with repeated military defeats and episodes of exile and dislocation culminating in the destruction of the Second Temple in 70 CE, Jewish thinkers began to lose hope in any immediate change, instead investing greater expectations in a messianic future and in life after death. This was coupled with the introduction into Judaism of Hellenistic notions of the division of the material, perishable body and the spiritual, eternal soul.

But, since this overview did not serve @jojom and his petty agenda, he simply chose not to share. So much for intellectual integrity.

 

[Awoon]

If any of the questions here have reasonable answers, please share.

Q.1 Why did the god of Abraham create hell, or at least lets it exist?

Q.2 Does eternal punishment truly fit the crime of comparatively brief temporal sin?

Q.3 Why create such a narrow and conditional means of avoiding hell---believe in Jesus as one's savior? (Most of civilization never heard of it, or have been convinced of its necessity.)

Q. 4 What do you think god achieves by, or derives from, setting up this particular escape rout: believing in Jesus as one's savior?
​

And please, no "God works in mysterious ways" or similar explanations.


Hell is mental torment. You know, what you are going through now thinking some God created some outside of you Hell, that made you ask the four questions above.


.

 

[jojom]

Interesting reference. Let's see how it begins:

​

But, since this overview did not serve @jojom and his petty agenda, he simply chose not to share. So much for intellectual integrity.

"Petty agenda"? Please keep in mind who initiated the subject of the nature of Jewish Hell:

Please describe the hell of Judaism.

I was content with never having to look into it---I don't really care about the particulars---but because angellous_evangellous didn't know how to find the answer to his question, and I had the time, I thought I'd help out the poor guy.

That I didn't described it to your liking is too bad (please give it a shot if it makes you feel better), but my interest was in keeping my answer confined to the description of hell, and nothing else. That you feel I should have gone into more is your problem (it obviously bothers you), but that's the lay of the land JS. Hope you can get over it.


.

 

[jojom]

Because a gun's no good for leverage if it ain't loaded.

So, what do you thing the leverage was for? Personal glorification perhaps?


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[jojom]

1. God did not create a place of torment. No such place exists.
2. The punishment for sin is death, not eternal torment. (Romans 6:23)
3. The ransom sacrifice of Christ was necessary to ransom mankind from sin and death. (John 3:16)
4. God shows mercy to deserving ones while satisfying his own standard of perfect justice and righteousness.(Romans 3:26)

2. So if A&E never brought sin into the world, and no one ever died, what do you think the population of the world would be right now? The Population Reference Bureau puts it at 107,602,707,791. That's 15 times our current population.

3. Ransom? Why not simply absolve everyone with a snap of his fingers? Why make everyone go through hoops?

4. "Satisfying his own standard of perfect justice and righteousness." So, it all comes down to satisfying god's needs: "I have such a need that people accept Jesus that if they don't I'll consign them to hell." Think such an attitude on the human level, "If you kids don't make me feel happy you're going to get the strap!" would be acceptable?


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[Jayhawker Soule]

"Petty agenda"? Please keep in mind who initiated the subject of the nature of Jewish Hell: ....

Actually, you did in post #3.

I was content with never having to look into it---I don't really care about the particulars---but because angellous_evangellous didn't know how to find the answer to his question, and I had the time, I thought I'd help out the poor guy.
.

Actually, unlike you @angellous_evangellous has - both in these forums and in the real world - engaged in serious scholarship and has done so with far more intellectual integrity than you have shown to date. He's also pretty good on the guitar.

That I didn't described it to your liking is ...

On the contrary, the more you demonstrate disingenuous practice and intent the easier you are to dismiss.