Stephen Fry on the Destructiveness of Self-Pity

[Sunstone]

“Certainly the most destructive vice if you like, that a person can have. More than pride, which is supposedly the number one of the cardinal sins - is self pity. Self pity is the worst possible emotion anyone can have. And the most destructive. It is, to slightly paraphrase what Wilde said about hatred, and I think actually hatred's a subset of self pity and not the other way around - ' It destroys everything around it, except itself '.

Self pity will destroy relationships, it'll destroy anything that's good, it will fulfill all the prophecies it makes and leave only itself. And it's so simple to imagine that one is hard done by, and that things are unfair, and that one is underappreciated, and that if only one had had a chance at this, only one had had a chance at that, things would have gone better, you would be happier if only this, that one is unlucky. All those things. And some of them may well even be true. But, to pity oneself as a result of them is to do oneself an enormous disservice.

I think it's one of things we find unattractive about the american culture, a culture which I find mostly, extremely attractive, and I like americans and I love being in america. But, just occasionally there will be some example of the absolutely ravening self pity that they are capable of, and you see it in their talk shows. It's an appalling spectacle, and it's so self destructive.

I almost once wanted to publish a self help book saying 'How To Be Happy by Stephen Fry : Guaranteed success'. And people buy this huge book and it's all blank pages, and the first page would just say - ' Stop Feeling Sorry For Yourself - And you will be happy '. Use the rest of the book to write down your interesting thoughts and drawings, and that's what the book would be, and it would be true. And it sounds like 'Oh that's so simple', because it's not simple to stop feeling sorry for yourself, it's bloody hard. Because we do feel sorry for ourselves, it's what Genesis is all about.”

To summarize, Fry believes self-pity is "the most destructive vice...that a person can have", and he describes it as "destroying everything around it, except itself." That is, Fry is not saying self-pitying people are bad people, he's saying self-pity is bad for people.

It's been said that Fry lacks empathy for those who pity themselves, but I myself do not believe that's so. It's not empathy that Fry lacks, but sympathy -- the difference is a profound one. And why should he not lack sympathy for what he regards (correctly, I think) as the most destructive vice a person can have?

Comments? Questions? Self-pitying Rants? Please discuss!

 

[Sunstone]

It's been 56 minutes now and no one but Onyx has "liked" my thread on self-pity! I'm a failure! I've always been a failure as a thread starter and this is just more proof of it! I don't know why I'm so worthless. No one "Likes" me. I can't take it anymore!

 

[wizanda]

It's been said that Fry lacks empathy for those who pity themselves

Erm, Stephen Fry has had suicidal depression for years, because of self pity; there are documentaries about his fight with depression.... So who ever said that, has missed his point entirely.

As someone who also has been suicidal for years, i agree with his statements, turn that loathing into strength....

When I've been in states of self pity, I've learned to hit the floor doing press ups, and make that energy into something more constructive.

Though I'm still battling with depression, the self pity, is a huge issue always having to deal within; remembering to tell the accuser within us to shut up, and reflect on positivity, not the negatives.

 

[YmirGF]

I have been through depression and lived to tell about it. Depression is akin to self-pity in many ways and it is not something that I tend to enable in those around me. I agree that it is a very destructive force if it makes people feel HELPLESS. If self-pity awakens the individual to change, to shake off the chains of their lot, then it could be a great motivating force, but I see it more as a psychological black hole that sucks the ambition out of the individual.

 

[Onyx]

It's been 56 minutes now and no one but Onyx has "liked" my thread on self-pity! I'm a failure! I've always been a failure as a thread starter and this is just more proof of it! I don't know why I'm so worthless. No one "Likes" me. I can't take it anymore!

Now that I have your money, I might go ahead and hit the unlike button.

 

[BSM1]

I tend to agree with Fry: "...self-pity bad, m'kay...". I also believe that a person can be sympathetic to the circumstances that would lead to self-pity-depression, low self esteem, chronic lion breath-without being sympathetic to the emotion itself.

 

[Sunstone]

I also believe that a person can be sympathetic to the circumstances that would lead to self-pity-depression, low self esteem, chronic lion breath-without being sympathetic to the emotion itself.

That's an excellent point! Thanks for sharing that. I knew you were good for something!

 

[Sunstone]

Depression is akin to self-pity in many ways and it is not something that I tend to enable in those around me.

Agreed, Paul! Excellent point!

 

[Oculus]

I have been through depression and lived to tell about it. Depression is akin to self-pity in many ways and it is not something that I tend to enable in those around me. I agree that it is a very destructive force if it makes people feel HELPLESS. If self-pity awakens the individual to change, to shake off the chains of their lot, then it could be a great motivating force, but I see it more as a psychological black hole that sucks the ambition out of the individual.

You know nothing about profound depression.

 

[Sunstone]

You know nothing about profound depression.

I can't tell if your comment best fits "Gaslighting 101" or "Let's Brag About Who's Had it Worse 210".

 

[Quagmire]

Self pity leads to self indulgence. Self indulgence leads to self destruction.

 

[Oculus]

I can't tell if your comment best fits "Gaslighting 101" or "Let's Brag About Who's Had it Worse 210".

Simple statement of the facts.

People who think we can just snap out of it with a positive attitude are full of s**t. We are dealing with a serious chemical imbalance.

 

[YmirGF]

You know nothing about profound depression.

Never underestimate what another has been through, friend. I would never think of suggesting the "positive attitude" BS.
I'm far more direct and prefer "reality" therapy.

 

[Straw Dog]

Ah, self-pity. The fly in the ointment. The crack in the lens...

As a survivor of depression and self-pity, I consider my old personality to have essentially disintegrated after hitting rock bottom. What has been emerging from the ashes is something new and better equipped. The first rule for overcoming self-pity is to accept adversity rather than retreat into a victim mentality. Next, develop the confidence for overcoming obstacles. If the confidence doesn't come naturally, fake it until you make it. Then learn the competence necessary for solving problems. So... Acceptance, confidence, and competence... not condolences.

Disclaimer: This is roughly the path I took, but I'm certainly not a counselor or a self-help guru. I also understand that some cases of depression are mostly a result of chemical imbalance.

 

[Kapalika]

Self pity leads to self indulgence. Self indulgence leads to self destruction.

I imagined this in a Yoda voice. But I agree, it's a spiral that snowballs.

Ah, self-pity. The fly in the ointment. The crack in the lens...

As a survivor of depression and self-pity, I consider my old personality to have essentially disintegrated after hitting rock bottom. What has been emerging from the ashes is something new and better equipped. The first rule for overcoming self-pity is to accept adversity rather than retreat into a victim mentality. Next, develop the confidence for overcoming obstacles. If the confidence doesn't come naturally, fake it until you make it. Then learn the competence necessary for solving problems. So... Acceptance, confidence, and competence... not condolences.

Disclaimer: This is roughly the path I took, but I'm certainly not a counselor or a self-help guru. I also understand that some cases of depression are mostly a result of chemical imbalance.

I kind of am in a similar process. Just ignoring it and 'faking it' to some degree works but I kind of feel that it only works once you have enough of a foundation to prop that up. For me that became developing skills I could be proud of and making steps towards what I wanted to accomplish. I don't really think there is any other substitute for self-esteem and confidence than this. That became my foundation for the rest of it. It then grows over time and you find yourself faking/ignoring less and less. 'Faking it' only takes it so far, it's a margin to create real confidence and competence.

I think for the most part anyone can get on this path and at least make some progress. It isn't always easy but you got to fight the odds if you want to survive and make it.

 

[Brickjectivity]

Self pity is part of a spectrum of feelings that are not always bad. Its together with introspection, caution and self doubt, anger, fear, confusion, lethargy but also kindness, empathy and compassion. These things all have a part to play. Unfortunately they are connected together like a train of cars, so none of them come individually. A compassionate person is more likely to feel self pity, anger and lethargy than others. I have begun to think of these feelings as cold colors since they seem connected.

The bright colored feelings are happy, assertive, possibly violent, embracing, curious, energetic. Things like that are also connected.

 

[Onyx]

To summarize, Fry believes self-pity is "the most destructive vice...that a person can have", and he describes it as "destroying everything around it, except itself." That is, Fry is not saying self-pitying people are bad people, he's saying self-pity is bad for people.

The unhealthy aspect of "self-pity" might be spinning your mental wheels instead of feeling the appropriate emotions, which can be very difficult for some. Anton LaVey suggested a celebratory approach:

Therefore, after intellectually evaluating your problems through common sense and
drawing on what psychiatry has taught us, if you still cannot emotionally release yourself
from unwarranted guilt, and put your theories into action, then you should learn to make
your guilt work for you. You should act upon your natural instincts, and then, if you cannot
perform without feeling guilty, revel in your guilt.

 

[Sunstone]

Simple statement of the facts.

People who think we can just snap out of it with a positive attitude are full of s**t. We are dealing with a serious chemical imbalance.

Good gods, man! Did you actually read Ymir's statement? He said nothing at all about "just snapping out of depression". Are you trolling him? If you think you can long get away with trolling on this Forum, you have a surprise in store for you.

 

[Sunstone]

The unhealthy aspect of "self-pity" might be spinning your mental wheels instead of feeling the appropriate emotions, which can be very difficult for some. Anton LaVey suggested a celebratory approach:

LaVey seems to be talking about guilt, Joe. To me, guilt is very different from self-pity. Am I missing something?

 

[Sunstone]

Self pity is part of a spectrum of feelings that are not always bad. Its together with introspection, caution and self doubt, anger, fear, confusion, lethargy but also kindness, empathy and compassion. These things all have a part to play. Unfortunately they are connected together like a train of cars, so none of them come individually. A compassionate person is more likely to feel self pity, anger and lethargy than others. I have begun to think of these feelings as cold colors since they seem connected.

The bright colored feelings are happy, assertive, possibly violent, embracing, curious, energetic. Things like that are also connected.

We'll have to agree to disagree on this one, Brick. I see self-pity as essentially destructive, and with much to redeem it from that.