Sources on the actual age of Chakras and Yoga

[vijeno]

I recently ran across the claim that the concept of Chakras, as currently taught in the "west", and the whole concept of Yoga along with it, is actually NOT an ancient Hindu idea, but was exported from western countries into India in the 19th century. Along with that came the claim that a lot of the confusion stems from a bad translation by John Woodruffe.

I'm decidedly not an expert on eastern religions in any way.

So what do you all make of that? Complete nonsense? Somewhat true? Absolutely correct?

What, actually, ARE the sources on yoga and the chakras?

 

[Aupmanyav]

Absolute nonsense. Copy right theft.
Yoga: 5th Century BCE.
Chakras: Breath channels (nāḍi) of yogic practices are mentioned in the classical Upanishads, but hierarchies of chakras are introduced in the eighth-century Buddhist Hevajra Tantra and Caryāgiti.
Check Wikipedia.

 

[Shrew]

I think there are several systems of chakras, that one Woodroffe presented is just the most popular simply because he wrote in English.
I found this.

 

[vijeno]

Absolute nonsense. Copy right theft.

...

Check Wikipedia.

Here's the source that claims otherwise: The Real Story of the Chakras

I wouldn't know if it is true, I'm looking for material.

 

[vijeno]

Let me add a few more links:

How Old Is Yoga? The History of Modern Yoga Asana

There are several texts that are referenced over and over as the philosophical basis for the physical side of yoga, but little mention of yoga postures is made in them. In the Bhagavad Gita, for instance, the word asana is used to mean seat. Likewise, in the Yoga Sutras of Patanjali, asana, one of yoga's eight limbs, refers to a steady and comfortable sitting posture for meditation, according to yoga scholar Mark Singleton, author of Yoga Body: The Origins of Modern Posture Practice (2010), in which he explores the evolution of yoga into the mainstream.
​

https://www.yogaoutlet.com/guides/history-of-yoga, talking about the Vedas and Upanishads:

Note there is no mention of physical practice in these texts — only philosophy, worship, and meditation​

...and about Patanjali's Yoga Sutras:

beyond a brief reference to a seated meditation posture (the Sanskrit word “asana” literally means “seat”), physical yoga practice is notably absent from the Yoga Sutras.
​

Hmmmm...

 

[Vinayaka]

I recently ran across the claim that the concept of Chakras, as currently taught in the "west", and the whole concept of Yoga along with it, is actually NOT an ancient Hindu idea, but was exported from western countries into India in the 19th century. Along with that came the claim that a lot of the confusion stems from a bad translation by John Woodruffe.

I'm decidedly not an expert on eastern religions in any way.

So what do you all make of that? Complete nonsense? Somewhat true? Absolutely correct?

What, actually, ARE the sources on yoga and the chakras?

Definitely in the Tirumanthiram.

 

[vijeno]

Tirumanthiram

Interesting. According to Tirumantiram - Wikipedia:

3. Yoga practices according to the eight-angled way of Patanjali.​

...which, if we agree that what I quoted above is indeed correct, have no mention of what we currently understand as asanas.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Hatha yoga - Wikipedia

You asked a question, we replied to it. Anything else?

 

[Vinayaka]

Interesting. According to Tirumantiram - Wikipedia:

3. Yoga practices according to the eight-angled way of Patanjali.​

...which, if we agree that what I quoted above is indeed correct, have no mention of what we currently understand as asanas.

Not sure, but perhaps you have the two generally accepted definitions of 'yoga' confused?

 

[vijeno]

Not sure, but perhaps you have the two generally accepted definitions of 'yoga' confused?

The interesting questions, I guess, are:

* At what point did the practice of different postures become merged with the general idea of enlightenment?
* At what point did posture evolve from "whatever is good for meditation", into a set of different movements, like we practice it today?

 

[Vinayaka]

The interesting questions, I guess, are:

* At what point did the practice of different postures become merged with the general idea of enlightenment?
* At what point did posture evolve from "whatever is good for meditation", into a set of different movements, like we practice it today?

Today it is definitely separated. Today's hatha yoga is calm stretching, not much else, and disassociated from its roots. I think it's been 20th centiry development. What was once meant for tapasvins is now used for anyone.

As far as I know, it was Patanjali (C200) and before. He wrote it down, but since the tradition would nave been oral, irt could have been a few thousand years earlier. Some people view Patanjali's 8 concepts as limbs, while others view them as progressive stages. I'm in the latter camp.

The Hatha Yoga Pradipika is a 14th century text written by one Svatnaramin Yogin, 389 verses, and is widely used today.