Religion for Atheists

[The Neo Nerd]

Many atheists are religious.

But that religion isn't atheism.

 

[LuisDantas]

Religion makes perfect sense for Atheists.

But not if one tries to define it as based in the belief of an unseen order (which would amount to some sort of Theism IMO). That is a good definition for Theistic religion, but not for Religion proper.

Of course, religion does not at all need such a belief. Religion is not about belief in the sacred or the sublime, but instead about the effort of attaining the same. I've long felt that belief in God is in fact an obstacle for religious practice.

 

[LuisDantas]

Isn't Atheism a belief and therefor a religion?

Nope. Atheism is just barely a belief, perhaps not even that - after all, it is only the denial of a vaguely defined belief.

And it takes far more than a belief, even a properly-structured belief, to make a true religion. At the very least, there must be a system of values involved. Or if that is not available or possible, then some clear path of finding them by demand.

 

[tomteapack]

I've always felt that there is more to Atheism than the nay-saying of religious dogma. That if we are to reject the possession of divine knowledge by humans we still need ways to express those experiences of thought and emotion that transcends the material world - that address the deeply mysterious elements of our existence. The acknowledgement that divine knowledge actually exists.

While listening to a podcast of Bill Moyers interviewing Robert Wright, the author of The Evolution of God he said something that I found interesting. Although he was clearly an Atheist he said, "By William James' definition of religion, I am a religious person". I never heard of William James before but I looked him up. He was a turn of the century psychologist and pragmatic philosopher who thought and wrote quite a bit about mysticism and religious experience. Anyhow, his definition of religion was -

The belief that there is an unseen order, and that our supreme good lies in harmoniously adjusting ourselves thereto.

I agree with Robert Wright on this. I think that by this definition I am a "religious person" too - although I'm not about to start calling myself that. But I agree with that statement. I hold this belief.

So what do you Atheists think? Would you agree or disagree with this statement and why?

Jackytar

Well, off hand I would say that Robert Wright is an idiot, nincompoop and that he is a very low level of reading comprehension.
Any order in the universe is seen, look around. Good and bad are not supreme and in fact have no meaning to anyone except the individual using them. For a rapist it is GOOD to find a woman walking alone at night, for me it is good to have a few pain pills left at the end of the month, and on and on.
Being an atheist means one thing, no god or gods. PERIOD. Other than that simple fact, very few atheists have much in common, far less than the average baptist, Methodist or Muslim.

By the way, anyone trying to define words should use a dictionary.
RELIGION - The belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, esp. a personal God or gods.

 

[Tor_Hershman]

The one true savior of our glutei maximi
:grill: ED WOOD :curtsy:
teaches the most supernal of all human truths, and that is,
“All you [us] of Earth are Idiots!”

 

[cottage]

I've always felt that there is more to Atheism than the nay-saying of religious dogma. That if we are to reject the possession of divine knowledge by humans we still need ways to express those experiences of thought and emotion that transcends the material world - that address the deeply mysterious elements of our existence. The acknowledgement that divine knowledge actually exists.

While listening to a podcast of Bill Moyers interviewing Robert Wright, the author of The Evolution of God he said something that I found interesting. Although he was clearly an Atheist he said, "By William James' definition of religion, I am a religious person". I never heard of William James before but I looked him up. He was a turn of the century psychologist and pragmatic philosopher who thought and wrote quite a bit about mysticism and religious experience. Anyhow, his definition of religion was -

The belief that there is an unseen order, and that our supreme good lies in harmoniously adjusting ourselves thereto.

I agree with Robert Wright on this. I think that by this definition I am a "religious person" too - although I'm not about to start calling myself that. But I agree with that statement. I hold this belief.

So what do you Atheists think? Would you agree or disagree with this statement and why?

Jackytar

As a religious sceptic it is not really for me to prescribe or define people's beliefs, but, having said that, it is my view that religious belief is fundamentally about satisfying the self. Most religious folk seem to believe in an afterlife, or some kind of eternal happiness. And I also think that by putting faith in an external agency it allows the believer to be relieved of responsibility, such as when we hear 'If it is God's will' or 'Only God can decide'.

I'm sorry but I've never been able to understand why we have this need to promote ourselves above every other species in the universe, as something unique and deserving of special treatment. Just my view.

 

[Falvlun]

The belief that there is an unseen order, and that our supreme good lies in harmoniously adjusting ourselves thereto.

"Unseen order" seems code for some intelligence or supernaturalness ordering things about. (Why must it be unseen?) But if it just means the laws of physics, etc, then of course there is an order.

I don't see how our supreme good could come about from aligning ourselves with physics, though. I mean, I don't think we have any choice in the matter.

 

[Falvlun]

I also agree with cottage. Notice that the second half of that definition for religious is about securing "our supreme good". Religion does seem inherently about fulfilling human needs and desires, and is so, inherently selfish.

 

[Revoltingest]

....we still need ways to express those experiences of thought and emotion that transcends the material world - that address the deeply mysterious elements of our existence. The acknowledgement that divine knowledge actually exists.

I don't buy it. Thought appears to be just another emergent property of matter, given the
proper elements, suitable environment for life, & sufficient time. Nothing magical for me.

 

[Bob L]

I've always felt that there is more to Atheism than the nay-saying of religious dogma. That if we are to reject the possession of divine knowledge by humans we still need ways to express those experiences of thought and emotion that transcends the material world - that address the deeply mysterious elements of our existence. The acknowledgement that divine knowledge actually exists.

While listening to a podcast of Bill Moyers interviewing Robert Wright, the author of The Evolution of God he said something that I found interesting. Although he was clearly an Atheist he said, "By William James' definition of religion, I am a religious person". I never heard of William James before but I looked him up. He was a turn of the century psychologist and pragmatic philosopher who thought and wrote quite a bit about mysticism and religious experience. Anyhow, his definition of religion was -

The belief that there is an unseen order, and that our supreme good lies in harmoniously adjusting ourselves thereto.

I agree with Robert Wright on this. I think that by this definition I am a "religious person" too - although I'm not about to start calling myself that. But I agree with that statement. I hold this belief.

So what do you Atheists think? Would you agree or disagree with this statement and why?

Jackytar

I disagree with this statement. The definition of atheism is that it is a philosophical position of a nonbelief in the existence of God or gods, and by extension everything that is associated with it. Atheists tend to think logically and rationally, therefore for the atheist there is no "unseen order", in other words if something cannot be described in a logical and rational way, then it probably doesn't exist.

 

[tomteapack]

I've always felt that there is more to Atheism than the nay-saying of religious dogma. That if we are to reject the possession of divine knowledge by humans we still need ways to express those experiences of thought and emotion that transcends the material world - that address the deeply mysterious elements of our existence. The acknowledgement that divine knowledge actually exists.

While listening to a podcast of Bill Moyers interviewing Robert Wright, the author of The Evolution of God he said something that I found interesting. Although he was clearly an Atheist he said, "By William James' definition of religion, I am a religious person". I never heard of William James before but I looked him up. He was a turn of the century psychologist and pragmatic philosopher who thought and wrote quite a bit about mysticism and religious experience. Anyhow, his definition of religion was -

The belief that there is an unseen order, and that our supreme good lies in harmoniously adjusting ourselves thereto.

I agree with Robert Wright on this. I think that by this definition I am a "religious person" too - although I'm not about to start calling myself that. But I agree with that statement. I hold this belief.

So what do you Atheists think? Would you agree or disagree with this statement and why?

Jackytar

Disagree, there is no unseen order and no supreme good or bad.

 

[Orbit]

It may be more useful to frame the question as "spirituality" rather than "religion". Religion suggests something organized, with dogma and rules. Spirituality is a very human experience that religion doesn't own.